Jeff Samardzija and Jason Hammel traded to Oakland Athletics for Addison Russell plus

[2323]

I can't see the Mets doing it because they're almost at the same point as the Cubs, except they went out and signed free agents.

I agree on Colorado and Baltimore. I kind of think Boston's prospects are over esteemed because it's Boston. I also think it's laughable that the Boston Globe is saying one of their prospects Is off-limits.

 

[beckdawg]

I can't see the Mets doing it because they're almost at the same point as the Cubs, except they went out and signed free agents.

I agree on Colorado and Baltimore. I kind of think Boston's prospects are over esteemed because it's Boston. I also think it's laughable that the Boston Globe is saying one of their prospects Is off-limits.

To some extent yeah I agree about Boston's guys. Owens in particular, the numbers don't really match the scouting ratings. From what I've read is he just hasn't grown into his body yet but I'd prefer to be trading for guys who are already putting up numbers you expect out of top prospects. I think Mookie Betts will be pretty good though. He's probably a 15/40 guy who's sitting at 13.7%/7.7% walk/k rate. Seems like he'll be one hell of a lead off man in a few years. Number wise, I think Matt Barnes appears like the best of Boston's pitchers at least to me.

Perhaps I'm letting my fandom get in the way of logic but I just feel like Jon Gray and parts for Shark is one of the only trades even worth doing. Gray's 9.6 k/9 and and 1.8 bb/9 screams a guy who'll be top of the rotation in 2-3 years. And while I get the argument that if he's going to be that why not just wait for the Rockies, Tulowitzki is 29, Charlie Blackmon is 28 and Cargo is 28. They are on the same timeline as Shark regression wise. Jorge de la Rosa is 33 as well. If you wait 2-3 years what kind of window do you realistically have?

And I think the Rockies trade makes enough sense that it's not just me pipe dreaming. Their bullpen isn't amazing so you could possibly throw in someone like Russell to give them another left other than Rex Brothers and knock their current second lefty Boone Logan out of the pen(5.79 ERA). The only other places they appear to be hurting is 2B(well LF and C but that's Rosario who's 25 and Cargo). 2B is hitting .265/.318/.335 consisting primarily of former cub DJ LeMahieu. Doubt Barney would do much for them but perhaps Valbuena hitting .263/.384/.436 would offer them enough of an upgrade to matter.

 

[beckdawg]

The Cubs have asked about acquiring a competitive balance-round draft pick and the associated bonus slot money as part of their desired return for Jeff Samardzija, Yahoo Sports’ Jeff Passan reports. This would give Chicago an extra pick either between 35th-41st overall (Round A of the competitive balance picks) or 69th-74th overall (Round B) in this year’s amateur draft, should a trade be completed between now and Thursday.

Here’s a refresher on the order of the competitive balance round, which awards an extra pick to teams that play within the 10 smallest markets and/or teams with the 10 lowest revenues. Unlike other draft selections, competitive balance picks can be traded; just yesterday, the Marlins dealt the 39th overall pick to the Pirates in exchange for reliever Bryan Morris.

Passan cites the Rockies (picking at No. 35) as the best fit for Samardzija among the Round A teams with picks to trade, given Colorado’s long-standing need for starting pitching. The draft pick would just be part of a Samardzija trade package, of course, and I would guess the Cubs would also ask for Rockies pitching prospects Jonathan Gray or Eddie Butler in exchange for their ace. The Rox could possibly upgrade their rotation simply by promoting one of those two young arms, however, rather than deal assets for a veteran.

It seems unlikely that the Cubs would move Samardzija between now and Thursday’s draft, though they could still target a competitive balance pick in the 2015 draft. The competitive balance lottery for next year’s draft will take place in roughly six weeks’ times, and an extra pick could be a valuable trade chip for any contending teams who win those additional selections.

Interesting.

For reference, these teams have extra picks
Rockies
Orioles
Indians
Marlins(traded to pirates)
Royals
Brewers

Padres
Diamondbacks
Cardinals
Rays
Pirates
Mariners

 

[chibears55]

@TheCCO: #Cubs : Report: Cubs Inquired About Receiving Competitive-Balance Draft Pick for Samardzija bit.ly/1rDxHaO #MLB

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I527 using Tapatalk

 

[2323]

To some extent yeah I agree about Boston's guys. Owens in particular, the numbers don't really match the scouting ratings. From what I've read is he just hasn't grown into his body yet but I'd prefer to be trading for guys who are already putting up numbers you expect out of top prospects. I think Mookie Betts will be pretty good though. He's probably a 15/40 guy who's sitting at 13.7%/7.7% walk/k rate. Seems like he'll be one hell of a lead off man in a few years. Number wise, I think Matt Barnes appears like the best of Boston's pitchers at least to me.

Perhaps I'm letting my fandom get in the way of logic but I just feel like Jon Gray and parts for Shark is one of the only trades even worth doing. Gray's 9.6 k/9 and and 1.8 bb/9 screams a guy who'll be top of the rotation in 2-3 years. And while I get the argument that if he's going to be that why not just wait for the Rockies, Tulowitzki is 29, Charlie Blackmon is 28 and Cargo is 28. They are on the same timeline as Shark regression wise. Jorge de la Rosa is 33 as well. If you wait 2-3 years what kind of window do you realistically have?

And I think the Rockies trade makes enough sense that it's not just me pipe dreaming. Their bullpen isn't amazing so you could possibly throw in someone like Russell to give them another left other than Rex Brothers and knock their current second lefty Boone Logan out of the pen(5.79 ERA). The only other places they appear to be hurting is 2B(well LF and C but that's Rosario who's 25 and Cargo). 2B is hitting .265/.318/.335 consisting primarily of former cub DJ LeMahieu. Doubt Barney would do much for them but perhaps Valbuena hitting .263/.384/.436 would offer them enough of an upgrade to matter.

In the other thread, I think most are agreeing with you about the Ricketts deserving the bulk of the blame. But if Theo can't see beyond what he knew in Boston, he will be putting himself in front of the firing squad. And it would be completely fair.

 

[WindyCity]

Lots of rumblings up here in Canada that if the Blue Jays continue this tear that they are on they will make a move for Shark and would not balk at the asking price.

I doubt we would be talking about Stroman and Sanchez, but one of those guys and a couple of other arms from further down the system would be a nice haul.

 

[WindyCity]

Marcus Stroman
Roberto Osuna
Sean Nolin

 

[beckdawg]

Marcus Stroman
Roberto Osuna
Sean Nolin

That doesn't get it done for me personally. I feel like if you're going to trade someone like Shark you'd better be getting something as close to a sure thing as pitching prospects get. Stroman has good numbers and is well regarded but at 5'9 there's a lot of questions about his ability to stick as a starter. Osuna is in A ball. Nolin profiles as a 4/5 starter. Even if you throw Sanchez in there he's yet to have below 4 bb/9 in anything higher than rookie ball.

At this point, I think a very interesting trade would be to the Rockies for Gray, David Dahl, their competitive balance pick and some lower level filler. Obviously that'd have to be done before the draft thursday but it would give the cubs Gray who fits my point about a sure thing and it would leave the Rockies Butler for a year or two down the road.

 

[Boobaby1]

That doesn't get it done for me personally. I feel like if you're going to trade someone like Shark you'd better be getting something as close to a sure thing as pitching prospects get. Stroman has good numbers and is well regarded but at 5'9 there's a lot of questions about his ability to stick as a starter. Osuna is in A ball. Nolin profiles as a 4/5 starter. Even if you throw Sanchez in there he's yet to have below 4 bb/9 in anything higher than rookie ball.

At this point, I think a very interesting trade would be to the Rockies for Gray, David Dahl, their competitive balance pick and some lower level filler. Obviously that'd have to be done before the draft thursday but it would give the cubs Gray who fits my point about a sure thing and it would leave the Rockies Butler for a year or two down the road.

It will be interesting to see if a team drastically overpays for Shark. You know there will be a sleeper team out there.

 

[beckdawg]

It will be interesting to see if a team drastically overpays for Shark. You know there will be a sleeper team out there.

I don't really see the motivation to move him unless some team does. Are we really saying that they won't be able to get a package similar to Stroman, Osuna, and Nolin next year? I mean I'm not even sure that's better than what they got for Garza. Even something on the level of Stroman and Sanchez and parts is a nonstarter for me personally. That feels more like a "oh shit we have to trade this guy" moment rather than yeah this is enough to move him. For all we know Baez and Bryant could appear early in 2015 and dominate and then having Shark puts them potentially on the verge of the playoffs.

 

[chibears55]

I find it interesting that the cubs brought up the compensation package in draft..
wonder if they did that on their own to see if more teams would be interested in making deals using that as part of package or if there were a legit team or teams that would make a deal if they could use that in a package deal over low ball players in their system already..

its kinda like cubs asked for a A player and a B player, but a team responded with 2 B players instead..
so maybe they mutually agreed on the A player and a C player if they can get the compensation pick ( C player)
if that makes sense

 

[beckdawg]

I find it interesting that the cubs brought up the compensation package in draft..
wonder if they did that on their own to see if more teams would be interested in making deals using that as part of package or if there were a legit team or teams that would make a deal if they could use that in a package deal over low ball players in their system already..

its kinda like cubs asked for a A player and a B player, but a team responded with 2 B players instead..
so maybe they mutually agreed on the A player and a C player if they can get the compensation pick ( C player)
if that makes sense

Yeah that was kind of my thoughts as well. I think a comp pick is easier to stomach for a team because you haven't already put in x amount of years developing a player. The other aspect I find interesting is what the logic behind an extra pick is. It obviously could just be another pick or it could be more about having more slot money. There's been talk of going under slot at 4 to sign a over slot high schooler in the second round. Its possible that they either A) think someone like Rodon will be there at 4 and will need the money for him or B) want to be able to draft someone like Gordon and then go over slot still.

In all honesty, it would be prudent of a team like the Rockies to make the deal now. You get probably 5-10 more starts out of him. That can be the difference between winning the division and getting the wild card. I'm really hoping they come over the top offering Gray and parts plus the draft pick prior to thursday's draft. I don't know if it will happen or not but that's the kind of deal I'd like.

 

[Boobaby1]

I don't really see the motivation to move him unless some team does. Are we really saying that they won't be able to get a package similar to Stroman, Osuna, and Nolin next year? I mean I'm not even sure that's better than what they got for Garza. Even something on the level of Stroman and Sanchez and parts is a nonstarter for me personally. That feels more like a "oh shit we have to trade this guy" moment rather than yeah this is enough to move him. For all we know Baez and Bryant could appear early in 2015 and dominate and then having Shark puts them potentially on the verge of the playoffs.

As much as you use WAR, are you suggesting that the Cubs can't pay for guys like Cano and other free agents, but Baez and Bryant could come up and do the very thing that 40 to 50 million worth of free agents can't?

 

[beckdawg]

As much as you use WAR, are you suggesting that the Cubs can't pay for guys like Cano and other free agents, but Baez and Bryant could come up and do the very thing that 40 to 50 million worth of free agents can't?

There is a difference. If Baez and Bryant come up and play like all-stars they are making $500k each. That leaves you a ton of room to add other pieces. $40-50 mil gets you 2 top tier pieces. If you're saying that's it then There's a third option. Baez and Bryant plus $40-50 mil in spending. That's what what i'm getting at when I talk about them being competitive.

I'm not entirely anti-FA. I'm anti-FA when that's all there is and you're a 65ish win team(from last year). If we're talking in WAR terms, to get to an average level team you need 15 wins. Cano has been worth around 6 war. Even if you add two of him you're talking about around +10 war when you subtract whatever they would have got instead of those two players. On the contrary, if you say Baez and Bryant are 4 war players(low end for typical perennial all-stars), that's probably +6. If you then add in $40 mil in spending you're there. I'd also suggest that given what is likely to be in FA, and given the inherent risk in FA in general you likely can get more WAR out of several players for $40 mil than say 2.

 

[Boobaby1]

There is a difference. If Baez and Bryant come up and play like all-stars they are making $500k each. That leaves you a ton of room to add other pieces. $40-50 mil gets you 2 top tier pieces. If you're saying that's it then There's a third option. Baez and Bryant plus $40-50 mil in spending. That's what what i'm getting at when I talk about them being competitive.

I'm not entirely anti-FA. I'm anti-FA when that's all there is and you're a 65ish win team(from last year). If we're talking in WAR terms, to get to an average level team you need 15 wins. Cano has been worth around 6 war. Even if you add two of him you're talking about around +10 war when you subtract whatever they would have got instead of those two players. On the contrary, if you say Baez and Bryant are 4 war players(low end for typical perennial all-stars), that's probably +6. If you then add in $40 mil in spending you're there. I'd also suggest that given what is likely to be in FA, and given the inherent risk in FA in general you likely can get more WAR out of several players for $40 mil than say 2.

As far as Bryant and Baez are concerned, they have a lot of growing pains to go through. Even if they come out of the gate rolling, chances are that the league will adjust, and then it is up to them to adjust again.

First things first. Lets get them out of the minors.

 

[beckdawg]

As far as Bryant and Baez are concerned, they have a lot of growing pains to go through. Even if they come out of the gate rolling, chances are that the league will adjust, and then it is up to them to adjust again.

First things first. Lets get them out of the minors.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that will happen. I just meant that it's entirely possible they could hit from the start. And if they do and you let Shark go for a less than absurd deal you may end up kicking yourself. The current team is 4-10 in 1 run games. If they halved the losses with a better offense they'd be 26-29 right now and about 3 games out of the wild card. Factor in a little spending in FA next year($14 mil of Soriano is off the books as well as maybe $17 mil they didn't spend on Tanaka) and they very well could be a competitive team. And that would still put them in the $105-110 mil spending range they have been at. So, to suggest they might spend that sort of money isn't that crazy.

If you're going to trade shark I just think you better make sure you get some team to overpay. Again, look no farther than the Garza deal. Ramirez has been worth 0.3 WAR. Grimm's been worth 0.1. Olt's been worth 0.1. And Edwards got hurt and hasn't really pitched. Obviously Garza is a bit different as they were going to let him walk to FA anyways. So, something is better than nothing. But, point here is thus far the return hasn't even product a projected 2 WAR which is an average level MLB player. In the case of Shark, you're probably giving up a 3-4 WAR season before you have to. What you get for that better be pretty god damn good.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm not sure if this matters with regard to trades or not but...

The Rockies will promote one of their two top pitching prospects, righty Eddie Butler, reports MLB.com’s Thomas Harding (via Twitter). Butler will take the ball against the Dodgers on Friday.

I want to believe that means that if Colorado is still in on Shark that Gray would be on the table but I'm not sure it is the case.

 

[JZsportsfan]

If Gray were involved I would be thrilled

 

[Captain Obvious]

I don't think Shark is going anywhere. We only have 31 million on the books for next year, I think they will be more likely to pay him more for a shorter time period, considering all the open payroll space we have coming up.

 

[2323]

If Gray were involved I would be thrilled

Since considering him as a return on Shark, I've realized I'd prefer Gray so much more than anyone else, that anything short of Gray would be a disappointment for me.