Jimmy Butler calls out Hoiberg, says Fred needs to be tougher

[clonetrooper264]

We haven't dominated the regular season since 2010.

 

[Enasic]

People thought we were dominating the league last season?

By some of the comments I'm reading, maybe so. The narrative is that guys played harder for Thibs and we didn't have any issues last season. Both of those things are just untrue.

 

[Scoot26]

By some of the comments I'm reading, maybe so. The narrative is that guys played harder for Thibs and we didn't have any issues last season. Both of those things are just untrue.

Agree. They definitely did not play so hard last season. Maybe Butler did, but guys like Gasol, Rose, etc did not. The Bulls seemingly struggled most of the year, lost to ALOT of bad teams, lost games in ways from simply not trying.

 

[Axl Rose]

I think you have some major misconceptions as to what occurred in the past. the players absolutely did play hard for thibs, even last year. not sure what you "know" that proves otherwise. and jimmy doesn't care to be the next "iso joe," he simply wants to win. he got paid big time $$ and simply wants to live up to that contract, unlike some other guy on the team that goes without mention :shrug:

oh my god

im not even gonna....you have done rewrote history

 

[Enasic]

Agree. They definitely did not play so hard last season. Maybe Butler did, but guys like Gasol, Rose, etc did not. The Bulls seemingly struggled most of the year, lost to ALOT of bad teams, lost games in ways from simply not trying.

Exactly. Yet that is largely ignored by a few people who want to push this unfounded narrative of guys not playing as hard this season.

 

[GalePayton]

Agree. They definitely did not play so hard last season. Maybe Butler did, but guys like Gasol, Rose, etc did not. The Bulls seemingly struggled most of the year, lost to ALOT of bad teams, lost games in ways from simply not trying.

So, are you ignoring that Rose was coming off a second major knee surgery last season?

Matter of fact, the surgeon had to go back in his knee during the season and Rose returned right before the playoffs. You guys seem to have selective memory.

 

[Scoot26]

So, are you ignoring that Rose was coming off a second major knee surgery last season?

Matter of fact, the surgeon had to go back in his knee during the season and Rose returned right before the playoffs. You guys seem to have selective memory.

No I don't. I don't care if he was coming off knee surgery.. He certainly didn't look like he was giving it his all in the regular season. I don't care what is wrong with him. I'd rather him play hard and blow out his knee again than play crappy but have a healthy knee. If he is so worried about his knee, he should retire.

 

[GalePayton]

No I don't. I don't care if he was coming off knee surgery.. He certainly didn't look like he was giving it his all in the regular season. I don't care what is wrong with him. I'd rather him play hard and blow out his knee again than play crappy but have a healthy knee. If he is so worried about his knee, he should retire.

Considering they had to go back in for more surgery to the knee, that should suggest to you that he was physically incapable of doing the things you wanted to see.

 

[Enasic]

He was healthy last season until he aggravated his knee and they had to go in and snip.

 

[Scoot26]

Considering they had to go back in for more surgery to the knee, that should suggest to you that he was physically incapable of doing the things you wanted to see.

He re-tore his meniscus. He wasn't playing the entire season on a torn meniscus.

 

[GalePayton]

He was healthy last season until he aggravated his knee and they had to go in and snip.

You're lying.

He didn't just "aggravate" the knee. It was bothering him from the very beginning.

 

[Enasic]

You're lying.

He didn't just "aggravate" the knee. It was bothering him from the very beginning.

What are you basing this off of?

 

[GalePayton]

He re-tore his meniscus. He wasn't playing the entire season on a torn meniscus.

They looked at his knee again because he wasn't progressing like they hoped. I remember it being an issue from the very beginning.

We're splitting hairs here. The issue at hand is that Rose was physically unable to perform last season and that can't be denied.

 

[Enasic]

They looked at his knee again because he wasn't progressing like they hoped. I remember it being an issue from the very beginning.

We're splitting hairs here. The issue at hand is that Rose was physically unable to perform last season and that can't be denied.

Actually this isn't hair splitting. You're speculating and tbh, you're the only person I've heard speculate this. Everything that came out was that he re-tore sometime after the all-star break.

 

[GalePayton]

Actually this isn't hair splitting. You're speculating and tbh, you're the only person I've heard speculate this. Everything that came out was that he re-tore sometime after the all-star break.

Was Derrick Rose's knee injured for the majority of last season or not?

 

[clonetrooper264]

Something something Jimmy Butler

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...jimmy-butler-fred-hoiberg-20151221-story.html

 

[GalePayton]

If you guys want to debate Rose and his injuries and/or performance, there is a Rose thread on page 1 that we can meet in.

This is the Jimmy Butler thread and there's a lot of news that has broken today, but for some reason isn't being discussed in this thread.

Edit. The guy above me is posting today's info.

 

[Scoot26]

Something something Jimmy Butler

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...jimmy-butler-fred-hoiberg-20151221-story.html

Within one minute of Bulls’ shootaround concluding Monday morning, Jimmy Butler beelined from the court to a waiting group of reporters. This is a departure from normal procedure as the coach typically talks first.

But Butler had plenty to say about "the elephant in the room," his comment after Saturday’s loss in New York that Fred Hoiberg needs to "coach harder."

Butler and Hoiberg met for over an hour on Sunday. Both claimed the incident can be a growing experience.

One thing is certain: Butler isn’t backing down from his self-proclaimed leadership role, saying he doesn’t regret what he said and that his first foray into such a role has a learning curve.

“People want me to lead, you take my leadership for what it is,” Butler said. “Some people may like it, some people don’t.”

Butler did admit unleashing his frustration in the media probably wasn’t the best route. But he doubled down on his stance and said Hoiberg even admitted as much in a team meeting that took the place of a film session.

“In that meeting he said that he does have to hold everybody accountable. I have to help him with that,” Butler said. “I think I took the easy way out with my frustration. But I was never calling out my coach. I think he’s a hell of a coach. I think he’s done great through these 25 games.”

Butler said he met individually with players about his comments and that Hoiberg did the majority of the talking in Monday’s team meeting.

“I think it opened their eyes too, because people know when they’re doing things they’re not supposed to be doing. So hopefully that’s changed.

We addressed it in the meeting,” Butler said. “I think it will all turnaround for the better.

“I know every play at every position because I study the playbook like that. I watch enough film to know how teams will guard this or that play.

When I'm out there with whoever, they might be in a different position because they're out there with Jo (Noah) or Pau (Gasol), two totally different style players. So I gotta let them know what they're supposed to be doing. And then if we're supposed to be somewhere at a certain time, I gotta make sure everybody's there or make sure everybody's doing what they're supposed to be doing.”

“(Hoiberg) doesn't have to change as a person. Now that we've addressed it, everybody knows what they have to do in practice and in the games. Before it wasn't addressed everybody was maybe going through the motions.”

As big of an issue as Butler’s comments is his reluctance to fully embrace Hoiberg’s pace-and-space offense. After the Tribune reported Butler has gone to Hoiberg to ask for more play calls and isolations, Butler didn’t exactly give a ringing endorsement when asked if he feels he fits into the scheme.

“I think so,” he said. “I have to be because he signed here for five years, I signed here for five years. We’re going to be here, so we I think we have to make it work. We have to make it work within this team. But I know that we will. He’s a hell of a coach. He’s doing us right by everybody, and it’s a learning curve for everybody. We’re only what, 25 games in, so we’ll be alright.”

Asked what he’d like to see from Butler offensively, Hoiberg didn’t hesitate.

“A big thing is to get out and run,” he said. “We talked a lot about that, getting to the corner and spacing the floor, allowing us to have that initial burst. He’s so good in attack mode when he can catch on the run. Again, I thought we got better at that last week. So we’re going to be fine in that area, but that’s a big thing we can do, is get out on that initial break and make sure guys are doing their job, get a guy to the front of the rim, get guys out running wide, go ahead and attack. I think that was a big part of our improved play last week and the consistency.”

Hoiberg said he wasn’t hurt by Butler’s comments and said he understands frustration because of his days as player and an executive.

“Are there some things I can do better? Sure. Are there some things that all of us can do better? Absolutely. Are there some things I need to demand probably a little bit more? Sure,” Hoiberg said. “Look, there are plenty of times in this gym behind closed doors where we have some pretty heated talks. It goes on with every coach. I don’t care what their personality or demeanor is. It’s part of being in the position that I’m in. It’s about accepting that and moving forward.

“I look at this as an opportunity for growth for our team. I think we took a step in the right direction, Jimmy and I meeting for a long time yesterday and our team today. I thought we had a really good shootaround, maybe as good as we’ve had all year long. The focus was there. The energy was there. Now it’s about having consistency in that area and carrying it over onto the floor and fighting through adversity.”

Hoiberg said he thinks Butler’s teammates are accepting of him as a leader.

“I know how passionate Jimmy Butler is. That’s what makes him a great player, his passion, his work ethic,” Hoiberg said. “But it is a new role for him. It’s a new role being a leader. I think he has all the tools to be a really good one. The talk we had yesterday -- I’ll keep what we talked about between us -- was really positive.”

Butler, too, is convinced the team is ready for him to lead.

“I explained my opinion and what I'm gonna do to change things here. Everybody accepted what I had to say,” he said. “They're very accepting of it. Pau, Jo, Derrick (Rose), they're telling me I have to lead more. I think it comes with it. I've been here the longest of so many guys on this team.

So whether I have a choice or not I have to step into this leadership role.

“I've never been in this position before in my life. Not high school, not junior college, and not here. So I'm learning. It's different, a lot goes into this and there's good and bad.”

In on-the-court news, Doug McDermott will play versus the Nets after leaving Saturday’s game with soreness in his surgically repaired right knee. And Hoiberg said he plans to play Bobby Portis.

Text for reference.

 

[GalePayton]

Like I said in my first post, I'm rolling with Jimmy, but he's really made Fred look weak. He could've handled this better.

 

[Axl Rose]

well Jimmy i hope you lead by example and buy into Hoiberg because thats what a leader does

a leader doesn't wander off to do what the hell he wants because he feels somebody else isn't doing as they should. i hope he truly realizes he is part of the problem aswell even though hes playing well

as much shit as Derrick gets this was never a problem for him. hell he supported Vinny Del Negro (atleast publicly anyway) i never heard him say "hey he keeps taking me out in the 4th quarter...wtf is up with this guy?"

speaking of Vinny i bring you some comedic relief

[video=youtube;9ces3yKpwS4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ces3yKpwS4[/video]