Jimmy Butler calls out Hoiberg, says Fred needs to be tougher

[The Hawk]

We haven't dominated the regular season since 2010.

.647 is .647. The issue stated was that the Bulls had a mediocre regular season record under Thibs. It was far from mediocre. It was excellent despite having a flawed team thanks to injuries and incompetent management at the top.

 

[The Hawk]

oh my god

im not even gonna....you have done rewrote history

It is guys like you who re-write history. The Bulls quit all right in the play-offs after Gar/Pax made it clear that Thibs was a lame duck.

 

[The Hawk]

Exactly. Yet that is largely ignored by a few people who want to push this unfounded narrative of guys not playing as hard this season.

Not according to Butler. They haven't .

 

[Enasic]

.647 is .647. The issue stated was that the Bulls had a mediocre regular season record under Thibs. It was far from mediocre. It was excellent despite having a flawed team thanks to injuries and incompetent management at the top.

Lol no the statement was we had a mediocre regular season last year.

 

[Enasic]

And you still haven't answered my question hawk. Per usual....

 

[Sunbiz1]

Hoiberg has proved exactly Jack and shit in the NBA as a Head Coach. Shake up the Roster so that we can b suck with a whole new cast? The Hoiberg experiment is a failure. He is D'Antoni light.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

Meh, Hoiberg would look much better with more talent.

It all goes back to the Rose contract, shit luck has handicapped the franchise.

 

[Axl Rose]

Hoiberg has proved exactly Jack and shit in the NBA as a Head Coach. Shake up the Roster so that we can b suck with a whole new cast? The Hoiberg experiment is a failure. He is D'Antoni light.

Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk

its only been 25 games and the team hasn't even ran his system correctly

theres more evidence that says the team needs to be shook up than Hoiberg being a bad coach

It is guys like you who re-write history. The Bulls quit all right in the play-offs after Gar/Pax made it clear that Thibs was a lame duck.

so i guess everybody that doesn't have a clear agenda dreamed about the lack of effort last year. it wasn't just in the playoffs it was all during the season

blame the FO for making Thibs a lame duck but hey if some coach i loved playing for job was on the line i'd make sure i went out there and did my part to show i supported him...they didn't do that and acutally made it a justifiable firing

 

[Gustavus Adolphus]

This is what I posted in a thread on another message board in regards to blowing up the roster. I think this is as good of a place as any to post it:

Rose is convinced he's a three point shooter, and he has never been this poor at the basket in his career. I think we've basically seen Jimmy''s ceiling and he's not going to get any better. Pau is old and slow, can't defend the pick and roll and is better suited in Derek Fisher's offense than Fred's (I'll take Cleanthony or Harvey's kid in exchange at anytime).

I've gone from loving Noah, to hating him, back to loving him right now. You've gotten all you can possibly muster out of Taj. Aaron Brooks has never met a 27 foot shot he doesn't like. Kirk Hinrich through an eye test runs the offense better than a former MVP, and actually looks like he might be the only one that understands the offense. I'm cautious to say they bought high on Niko, but he certainly isn't what they thought he'd be. Snell and Dougie actually look competent though, and I wish they'd actually give Portis some meaningful minutes.

As for Thibs, I know he still has (I don't think here so much) lovers within the fan base but he was given 5 fucking years. I saw a stat on Bleacher Report not too long ago that the average NBA coach lasts 2.3 season, and once you take out the Pop outlier that goes down to less than 2 seasons. Amazing coach that only got you 1 conference final win.

Team blows, but I continue to watch because I'm a fucking meatball Bulls fan. I wince every time I see Rose miss the rim on a three point shot, scream at the tv and tell myself I'll never watch again - but the Brooklyn game is already set on the DVR because I need to finish up Christmas shopping and I'll watch the whole dame game because I apparently hate myself.

 

[knoxville7]

]its only been 25 games and the team hasn't even ran his system correctly

theres more evidence that says the team needs to be shook up than Hoiberg being a bad coach[/B]



so i guess everybody that doesn't have a clear agenda dreamed about the lack of effort last year. it wasn't just in the playoffs it was all during the season

blame the FO for making Thibs a lame duck but hey if some coach i loved playing for job was on the line i'd make sure i went out there and did my part to show i supported him...they didn't do that and acutally made it a justifiable firing

that's kind of the point, the roster is incapable of running the offense he wants to run...its just a bad fit, plain and simple. and as far as players under thibs and hoiberg, I don't think the effort is different, more so the attention to detail isn't there this year like it was under the meticulous thibs

 

[houheffna]

It is guys like you who re-write history. The Bulls quit all right in the play-offs after Gar/Pax made it clear that Thibs was a lame duck.

Where did you get that from? If the players wanted to prove that Thibs was worth keeping...wouldn't beating Lebron and virtually getting to the Finals prove that point? I think the players are smarter than that.

I think some of the players were tired of Thibs...why? The same reason Scott Skiles' players were tired of him. They grate on people after a while. Some coaches can't last more than 5 or so years in one place.

 

[Axl Rose]

i guess tonight showed you what other players think of Jimmy and his leadership. i thought they'd pick it up for a game or 2 before they fell back into old habits but not even. not much you can do but start the rebuilding process.

welcome to purgatory everybody....hope you enjoy your stay

 

[knoxville7]

Where did you get that from? If the players wanted to prove that Thibs was worth keeping...wouldn't beating Lebron and virtually getting to the Finals prove that point? I think the players are smarter than that.

I think some of the players were tired of Thibs...why? The same reason Scott Skiles' players were tired of him. They grate on people after a while. Some coaches can't last more than 5 or so years in one place.

I do agree with you on that. however, NOT getting on the players is going to have hoiberg gone a lot quicker than thibs 5 year run

 

[Enasic]

I do agree with you on that. however, NOT getting on the players is going to have hoiberg gone a lot quicker than thibs 5 year run

Hoiberg could certainly do better but the main problems are much more difficult to work around.

1. Rose needs to play like Rose. His play this year has been well documented. Fred isn't afforded the luxury of coaching MVP, top 5 player in the league Derrick Rose. The guy who can carry a team on his back. He's coaching one of the worst starting PGs in the league, Derrick Rose. That's not to say that Derrick CAN'T play better, but over the course of 20+ games, the numbers and the eye test don't lie. Whether you want to attribute his play to a fractured orbital socket, coasting until the playoffs, or whatever other reason is irrelevant. There's no way to get around the fact that it's tough to win when your starting PG is playing the way Derrick has so far this season.

2. We desperately need a wing. Tony Snell hasn't taken any type of leap forward and even MDJ would make this team much better. Unfortunately, he's out indefinitely and we have 5 big men deserving of minutes. The balance on this roster is terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP. Bobby and Noah both deserve to play more. Gasol is a complete liability defensively and plays a low energy game. Niko, who the organization was counting on to be a core member of the team, has flat out disappointed and taken a step back. I wouldn't doubt that's part of the accountability that Jimmy was talking about. Noah and Bobby deserve more minutes and Gasol and Niko deserve less.

3. It's clear this team has chemistry issues. There's no camaraderie and guys aren't having fun. It was the same story last season. Everything is pointing towards a trade being mandatory but will that be enough to solve the problem? It probably won't be enough by itself, but it will at least be a step in the right direction.

 

[knoxville7]

Hoiberg could certainly do better but the main problems are much more difficult to work around.

1. Rose needs to play like Rose. His play this year has been well documented. Fred isn't afforded the luxury of coaching MVP, top 5 player in the league Derrick Rose. The guy who can carry a team on his back. He's coaching one of the worst starting PGs in the league, Derrick Rose. That's not to say that Derrick CAN'T play better, but over the course of 20+ games, the numbers and the eye test don't lie. Whether you want to attribute his play to a fractured orbital socket, coasting until the playoffs, or whatever other reason is irrelevant. There's no way to get around the fact that it's tough to win when your starting PG is playing the way Derrick has so far this season.

2. We desperately need a wing. Tony Snell hasn't taken any type of leap forward and even MDJ would make this team much better. Unfortunately, he's out indefinitely and we have 5 big men deserving of minutes. The balance on this roster is terrible and needs to be addressed ASAP. Bobby and Noah both deserve to play more. Gasol is a complete liability defensively and plays a low energy game. Niko, who the organization was counting on to be a core member of the team, has flat out disappointed and taken a step back. I wouldn't doubt that's part of the accountability that Jimmy was talking about. Noah and Bobby deserve more minutes and Gasol and Niko deserve less.

3. It's clear this team has chemistry issues. There's no camaraderie and guys aren't having fun. It was the same story last season. Everything is pointing towards a trade being mandatory but will that be enough to solve the problem? It probably won't be enough by itself, but it will at least be a step in the right direction.

while I agree with you on all of that, thibs dealt with the same issues hoiberg is dealing with currently. yes, thibs had derrick for his MVP year but he also had him the previous few years where derrick was always hurt and not playing like the derrick of old when he was out there. in reality, you could make an argument that the roster is better this year than it was last year simply because its the same roster + your beloved bobby portis that youre so high on.

 

[Enasic]

while I agree with you on all of that, thibs dealt with the same issues hoiberg is dealing with currently. yes, thibs had derrick for his MVP year but he also had him the previous few years where derrick was always hurt and not playing like the derrick of old when he was out there. in reality, you could make an argument that the roster is better this year than it was last year simply because its the same roster + your beloved bobby portis that youre so high on.

It is a better roster. Only my beloved Bobby isn't getting minutes and Derrick Rose is playing the worst basketball of his life. But on paper, sure, it's probably a better roster. If Derrick played like this for Thibs last season the results wouldn't be pretty. He wasn't very good last season, but he wasn't flat out terrible.

Like I said, Hoiberg certainly needs to do better and find his way quickly. But this team started to come undone last season and it showed up big time. This year, the boulder has had more time to gain momentum down the hill, and eventually it will hit the bottom. Derrick Rose and the overall makeup of the roster are the biggest problems. At least until (if) Derrick starts to play like he wants to be consistently great again. Hoiberg certainly isn't without blame though. He needs to steer this thing in the right direction and find his way right now.

 

[knoxville7]

It is a better roster. Only my beloved Bobby isn't getting minutes and Derrick Rose is playing the worst basketball of his life. But on paper, sure, it's probably a better roster. If Derrick played like this for Thibs last season the results wouldn't be pretty. He wasn't very good last season, but he wasn't flat out terrible.

Like I said, Hoiberg certainly needs to do better and find his way quickly. But this team started to come undone last season and it showed up big time. This year, the boulder has had more time to gain momentum down the hill, and eventually it will hit the bottom. Derrick Rose and the overall makeup of the roster are the biggest problems. At least until (if) Derrick starts to play like he wants to be consistently great again. Hoiberg certainly isn't without blame though. He needs to steer this thing in the right direction and find his way right now.

I think we see pretty eye to eye on this honestly. I don't know that the team was coming undone already last season though...I mean they did win more playoff games against LeBron than ever before lol

 

[clonetrooper264]

I think we see pretty eye to eye on this honestly. I don't know that the team was coming undone already last season though...I mean they did win more playoff games against LeBron than ever before lol

2 > 1. IMPROVEMENT BABY!

Only took injuries to both his sidekicks to do so!

 

[knoxville7]

2 > 1. IMPROVEMENT BABY!

Only took injuries to both his sidekicks to do so!

haha well im sure you noticed my hint of sarcasm in it. but one could make the argument the cavs were better without love and with Thompson starting instead. kyrie, as bad as he is defensively is still a big loss for sure

 

[clonetrooper264]

haha well im sure you noticed my hint of sarcasm in it. but one could make the argument the cavs were better without love and with Thompson starting instead. kyrie, as bad as he is defensively is still a big loss for sure

Certainly true. Though Love has meshed better this year and I don't think you can say they're better with him off the floor thus far.

 

[Enasic]

In the end, the Bulls won 49 games and were eliminated by Cleveland in 6 games. I expect a similar fate this season give or take a couple of regular season wins. Also, if Kyrie and Love are both at full strength in the playoffs, we'd be lucky to win one game. But overall, the difference between this year and last season is marginal. The bottom line is, this is not a championship team and the biggest problem is the roster and the regression of Derrick Rose.