John Fox and the end of the game

[WindyCity]

you pay a coach 5 mil a year to win and compete for superbowls.....

but we all know where this team is at right now and we arent compteting for crap yet

but that last game you cant make excuses giving up a game like that.

Not trying to give him an excuse. He blew it, looked like an idiot, and then was insulting in his post game comments.

But that is going to happen.

You cannot judge John Fox simply on his weaknesses.

 

[WindyCity]

Guys Fox blew the end of that game, no excuses, he fucking sucked late in the game.

But where he mismanaged the Lions game, he also has a less talented team go toe to toe with the Packers, beat the Raiders and win in arrowhead.

The good: teams are prepared to play, they play hard, and they are well coached.

The bad: clock management and conservative.


After thinking about it the Lions game didn't surprise me and the Raiders/Chiefs games should not have either, this is what Fox does.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

Here's how i see it.

If they called a pass and it was incomplete, we would all be pissed because it stopped the clock. We would have been better off running it and atleast forcing them to burn a timeout is all we would be reading on here.

If i am the head coach i probably run the ball in that situation. Forte is the best player on this offense, so i would put the ball in his hands.

It didn't work but i understood the call so i wasn't really upset. Plus, i have zero expectations this season. Wins are awesome but i'm not nearly as upset with losses as i usually am.

Go Bears!!!!

 

[Enasic]

Here's how i see it.

If they called a pass and it was incomplete, we would all be pissed because it stopped the clock. We would have been better off running it and atleast forcing them to burn a timeout is all we would be reading on here.

If i am the head coach i probably run the ball in that situation. Forte is the best player on this offense, so i would put the ball in his hands.

It didn't work but i understood the call so i wasn't really upset. Plus, i have zero expectations this season. Wins are awesome but i'm not nearly as upset with losses as i usually am.

Go Bears!!!!

Oh, I get the rationale behind it, but I didn't think that last timeout was all that valuable with almost 3 minutes remaining in the game. If you were that confident in your defense, you should have had enough confidence in them to get them off the field with no timeouts, or 1 timeout. The difference is pretty minimal, IMO considering the two minute warning and Stafford shredding us all game. It would be easier to accept if Forte and the Bears were running the ball effectively but they weren't. Cutler was actually moving the ball at that point in time and you should be able to count on him picking up 3 yards. If he threw a pick, it is what it is, but you can't coach scared.

Either way, I also have zero expectations this year and everything is just kind of bonus. If we win, that's always fun to watch, and if we lose, it's just a better draft pick for us. Win/win, really...

 

[Nick80]

Three weeks ago there was hope from some for as few wins as possible, now this.

lol

[video=youtube;Byo6qT9eVMs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byo6qT9eVMs[/video]

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

Three weeks ago there was hope from some for as few wins as possible, now this.

lol

[video=youtube;Byo6qT9eVMs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Byo6qT9eVMs[/video]

Not me. I am 99% sure we aint making the playoffs but i still want to win every game.

 

[botfly10]

I have gone back over the end of the game and specifically the coaching from the Lions game and there is no denying that John Fox botched the clock management and his staff was far to conservative and relied inexcusably on the defense that had given up 500 yards of offense.

The truth is that John Fox is not a brilliant in game strategist. He made mistakes in Denver and was accused of being far too conservative. He has never been a strong in game strategist and he probably never will be.

But the truth is that John Fox was not hired to be a brilliant in game strategist. He was hired to fix this team on Monday through Saturday.

Fox was hired to rebuild a broken team, to build a professional and god willing a winning culture, and to remove the embarrassment that was the Emery/Trestman era. John Fox was hired because of what he does between Monday and Saturday to prepare his team, get them playing hard, and to maximize the talent. He was hired because he can assemble an awesome staff, arguably the best we have seen in Chicago in 25 years.

John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday.

If he could out coach guys, rebuild a team culture, get guys to play hard for him, and recruit a great staff then he would be Bill Belichek and he would not have been available to hire.

I thought you pretty much already knew all of this before the season even started?

But you go too far here. You say "John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday".

Yes I agree that it was a mistake to not be more aggressive on the second to last possession. But come on now. Fox is not a terrible gameday strategist. Maybe I am reading you comment wrong, but it seems like you are saying he is basically always gon get out coached on Sunday. And I think that is kinda silly.

Also, I think he will probably always lean conservative, but I think we will see it to a lesser degree as this team grows and develops.

 

[Baredown3rdplace]

I'm not even sure how good the staff he assembled is. Regardless of personnel, just based on what the Lions were doing, Fangio and Gases responses were shit. Both coordinators really shit the bed. No, the coaching wasn't good, and the effort from the players wasn't good either. Idk what the **** some of you saw in that game.

And no, running into a stacked 10 man box was not the right decision. They sold out on the run, and we happily obliged. Every. Snap.

 

[greg23]

I thought you pretty much already knew all of this before the season even started?

But you go too far here. You say "John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday".

Yes I agree that it was a mistake to not be more aggressive on the second to last possession. But come on now. Fox is not a terrible gameday strategist. Maybe I am reading you comment wrong, but it seems like you are saying he is basically always gon get out coached on Sunday. And I think that is kinda silly.

Also, I think he will probably always lean conservative, but I think we will see it to a lesser degree as this team grows and develops.

Yes...fox is a terrible game day strategist.....

In fact he's consistantly in the bottom of 5 nfl coaches when it comes to in-game mgmt (with andy reid the worst).....

abd YES....he will remain this conservative and play not to lose evwm when the talent level on the roster increases.

Its who he is and always has been and he arrogantly defends it.

To assume that we'll magically be able to replace him whem we get good is ridiculous as he likely will be the reason why we dont make the playoffs one year when we should have due to his in game incompetence.

He did this already this season but it was at the end of the 1st half vs oak....after we scored they got the ball and carr got sacked foe a 16 yard loss to the 4 yard line...2nd and 26 and he let oak run 40 sec off the clock then called timeouts after 2nd and 3rd down giving the offense the ball with 20 seconds and 1 timeout (vs 1 min and 0 timeouts which is much more likely to produce a score)

 

[mecha]

Yes...fox is a terrible game day strategist.....

In fact he's consistantly in the bottom of 5 nfl coaches when it comes to in-game mgmt (with andy reid the worst).....

abd YES....he will remain this conservative and play not to lose evwm when the talent level on the roster increases.

Its who he is and always has been and he arrogantly defends it.

To assume that we'll magically be able to replace him whem we get good is ridiculous as he likely will be the reason why we dont make the playoffs one year when we should have due to his in game incompetence.

He did this already this season but it was at the end of the 1st half vs oak....after we scored they got the ball and carr got sacked foe a 16 yard loss to the 4 yard line...2nd and 26 and he let oak run 40 sec off the clock then called timeouts after 2nd and 3rd down giving the offense the ball with 20 seconds and 1 timeout (vs 1 min and 0 timeouts which is much more likely to produce a score)

you know what the difference is between Lovie Smith/Marc Trestman and John Fox? John Fox's team won the division 4 times in a row. I get it's easy to shit on him when the team loses, but chill out already.

I thought you pretty much already knew all of this before the season even started?

But you go too far here. You say "John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday".

Yes I agree that it was a mistake to not be more aggressive on the second to last possession. But come on now. Fox is not a terrible gameday strategist. Maybe I am reading you comment wrong, but it seems like you are saying he is basically always gon get out coached on Sunday. And I think that is kinda silly.

Also, I think he will probably always lean conservative, but I think we will see it to a lesser degree as this team grows and develops.

I think it's system changes, growing pains, and dumbing down to match the talent level. the only component of the entire team that's worth its salt is the offense, and even Cutler's play has been nerfed, but he's doing well with it. that's also dealing with injuries on that side too, they were without the actual good talent for what feels like an eternity.

Here's how i see it.

If they called a pass and it was incomplete, we would all be pissed because it stopped the clock. We would have been better off running it and atleast forcing them to burn a timeout is all we would be reading on here.

If i am the head coach i probably run the ball in that situation. Forte is the best player on this offense, so i would put the ball in his hands.

It didn't work but i understood the call so i wasn't really upset. Plus, i have zero expectations this season. Wins are awesome but i'm not nearly as upset with losses as i usually am.

Go Bears!!!!

I said pretty much the same thing. I don't remember which thread though. been busy celebrating Back to the Future day!

 

[Broc]

But he is not going to be perfect on game day,

No one is asking him to be perfect... merely competent.

and from time to time his decisions will cost games, but he won games with this model in Denver and Carolina.

Um ok, so basically he's a mediocre coach that will sometimes cost us games due to his ultra conservative decision making and couldn't win a SB with arguably one of the greatest QB's of the modern era and a stout defense? But hey he's great for team moral and in the weight room Monday's thru Saturday so we got that going for us!!

Some coaches win games during the week.

Yet another cringe-worthy meatballism. :facepalm:

Mike McCarthy has the same clock management and even play calling issues, but he wins games.
Pete Carroll is not a great game day coach, but he has built a culture and is a motivator.

Mike McCarthy has the luxury of having the best QB in the league not named Brady to make up for and keep his issues from being a serious detriment to the teams success. Fox doesn't have this luxury.

Seattle's previous success had more to do with building a stacked defense and complimenting it with a stout running game and a QB that didn't turn the ball over than any sort of "culture" or "motivation" on Carroll's part. Carroll's "culture" and "motivation" certainly isn't producing much success for them this season is it... Is he not doing a good enough job motivating them this year, is that their problem? Or is it simply that their OL sucks and can't block anyone and that their defense has regressed from #1 in points allowed to #11.. hmmmmmm tough call there...

"Culture", "motivation", "winning the week", and "fixing the team Monday-Saturday" are great cliches for the messageboard meatballs but games are won by Sunday execution by both players and coaches. Fox doesn't have the elite QB McCarthy does, nor does he have the elite stacked defense Carroll had(still sort of has). With the talent level of this team the margin for error is slim to none. Coaching mistakes have a much bigger impact for a team like the Bears. We simply can't afford to have the coaches making dumb decisions and putting the team further behind the 8 ball than it already is each game.

 

[mecha]

No one is asking him to be perfect... merely competent.

Lovie Smith did the same shit. Lovie Smith probably did worse, in fact, much larger body of work to **** up. I'd also rather have John Fox over the likes of say, Dave Wannstedt and Dick Jauron. and his Monday-Saturday coaching regimen certainly has to be better than taking a group picture in the locker room of mixed positions singing kumbaya together or whatever the **** Trestman had going on to procure Brandon Marshall into a locker room cancer again. but to each his own.

Um ok, so basically he's a mediocre coach that will sometimes cost us games due to his ultra conservative decision making and couldn't win a SB with arguably one of the greatest QB's of the modern era and a stout defense? But hey he's great for team moral and in the weight room Monday's thru Saturday so we got that going for us!!

I don't know if you noticed the trend with post-4-neck-surgeries-Peyton Manning, but he physically depletes as the season wears on. I'm still staggered they pulled that game out against the Patriots to even make the Super Bowl despite the fact the guy couldn't throw more than 5 yards at a crack. I guess Bill Belichick was a conservative dickbag to blow that game too right? nobody's talking about that. in fact, every coach that loses, let's just call them conservative and stupid. we'll set aside the fact there has to be a loser, or make them a half loser if they tie.

Mike McCarthy has the luxury of having the best QB in the league not named Brady to make up for and keep his issues from being a serious detriment to the teams success. Fox doesn't have this luxury.

you loved Jay Cutler once, and I'll continue to throw it in your face. this is a relative moot point though, disregarding he turned the ball over something like 8 times so far, he's not the reason they're losing games, SO WE HAVE THAT GOING FOR US RIGHT GUYS???

Seattle's previous success had more to do with building a stacked defense and complimenting it with a stout running game and a QB that didn't turn the ball over than any sort of "culture" or "motivation" on Carroll's part. Carroll's "culture" and "motivation" certainly isn't producing much success for them this season is it... Is he not doing a good enough job motivating them this year, is that their problem? Or is it simply that their OL sucks and can't block anyone and that their defense has regressed from #1 in points allowed to #11.. hmmmmmm tough call there...

the Seahawks got unbelievably lucky with their drafting. there's probably never going to be a team that ever pulls that off again, that's how insane it was. they're not all gonna stay with the team forever though, they can't pay everyone. I don't follow any other team outside the Bears so I can't even tell you what personnel changes happened to that team outside they re-signed Michael Bennett, and I only know that cause there were talks of him maybe signing with the Bears. offensive and defensive coordinators are the ones really coming up with the strategy; a great head coach breeds a mentality to want to win games. the Seahawks were dead to the league and suddenly blew up under him to be a model defense, and their power running with Lynch coupled with Wilson not turning the ball over and just overall playing efficient is what made that team into a powerhouse. their receivers are a bunch of no-names, just like Tom Brady and Colts Peyton Manning have had in the past, but they get it done. there's probably a dozen head coaches in the league that DON'T do this and that's why they're perennial losers until they get shitcanned. look at teams like the Raiders and how much coaching turnover they've had, or the Browns. at least I feel more confident with Fox that they can build around what he's got going.

"Culture", "motivation", "winning the week", and "fixing the team Monday-Saturday" are great cliches for the messageboard meatballs but games are won by Sunday execution by both players and coaches. Fox doesn't have the elite QB McCarthy does, nor does he have the elite stacked defense Carroll had(still sort of has). With the talent level of this team the margin for error is slim to none. Coaching mistakes have a much bigger impact for a team like the Bears. We simply can't afford to have the coaches making dumb decisions and putting the team further behind the 8 ball than it already is each game.

can we at least let the rest of the season play out before we call him a cotton-headed ninnymuggins? I mean jesus fucking christ already. and you said it, coaches and players have to execute. you can have the soundest and greatest gameplan in the universe, if the players can't EXECUTE then it doesn't really matter does it? the entire reason this is even happening is cause Forte ran for 5, 1, and 1 yards. that's it, one drive, and everyone's writing Fox off like he's some dumbfuck reject coach.

NEWSFLASH, if John Fox was a dumbfuck reject coach HE WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN A HEAD COACH SINCE 2002. he would be working under someone else as a coordinator now or out of the league if he truly sucked at his job. either that or 3 entirely different organizations had him all wrong for a time. and if you're basing the decision-making of John Elway on this, please pay mention he thought Tim Tebow would be a great quarterback.

 

[Larsonite]

Don't even bother with em man. During the IGT he was licking Fox's balls and saying he didn't mismanage the play calling or the clock. Ironically he called me football ignorant for saying these things. #WhosTheBitchNow

Vaya con dios pedejo!

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[Larsonite]

After reading through the rest of this thread i still think those who are pissed at Fox don't get hindsight is 20-20 and that there is more than just one guy who makes decisions and more than one guy resposible for the lose.

Just think what a difference this board would be like if we had won. Even though the game was so close and we played like shit, no one would be hyper analyzing Fox's clock decisions. Had one of many bad plays or ref calls gone our way, we'd all be talking about basement parties, fog machines and taco filling.

So enjoy the bye week with yer grandma's grilled cheese, jello pudding snacks, jalapeño string cheese, flaming hot cheetos, a little Debbie brownie and some code red mountain dew. You deserve it arm chair clock managers!

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

 

[Newblood]

I'm not even sure how good the staff he assembled is. Regardless of personnel, just based on what the Lions were doing, Fangio and Gases responses were shit. Both coordinators really shit the bed. No, the coaching wasn't good, and the effort from the players wasn't good either. Idk what the **** some of you saw in that game.

And no, running into a stacked 10 man box was not the right decision. They sold out on the run, and we happily obliged. Every. Snap.

I'll let you in on a secret. They've coordinated more than one game.

Maybe that will help clear up the confusion in your head.

 

[WindyCity]

I thought you pretty much already knew all of this before the season even started?

But you go too far here. You say "John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday".

Yes I agree that it was a mistake to not be more aggressive on the second to last possession. But come on now. Fox is not a terrible gameday strategist. Maybe I am reading you comment wrong, but it seems like you are saying he is basically always gon get out coached on Sunday. And I think that is kinda silly.

Also, I think he will probably always lean conservative, but I think we will see it to a lesser degree as this team grows and develops.

I do not think he is terrible. It just is not his strength.

I think most of success comes from having his team prepared and playing hard.

 

[airtime143]

Your logic makes no sense here. No timeout was called and they still scored. Calling no timeouts gave us no time to mount a TD-winning comeback that we would have had if TO's were called


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So Fox was supposed to know there was going to be a roughing the passer penalty?

Look- the reality is that penalty was stupid, and ultimately the game.
First down, a run, and the bears stopped the clock with an injury.
second down, intentional grounding.
3rd and goal from the 12, and there is an incomplete pass.... should have been 4th and 12.

but the penalty gives them 1st and 6.

McPhee takes at least one extra step and possibly 2 after the ball is released, dives forward, and then reaches out to swipe at staffords planted foot. If he was blocked in to stafford, maybe there would be no flag. but there was PLENTY of time for mcphee to realize the ball was gone- and he reached out to make contact anyway. I would guess that is the judgement behind throwing the flag.

So- Without the Mcphee brain cramp, the lions are 4th and 12 with the clock running when the ball is spotted... a fantastic position for any defense to be in to defend a single 12 yard pass to seal a game.

But- rather than realize a stupid-ass play took the defense from the best position possible to the worst position possible.... everyone choses to ***** about clock management in hindsight.


Beyond the reality above, If the bears start taking time outs, the lions could easily counter by running on 1st and 6.... burning the bears time outs without scoring.

So lets boil the argument down to bare bones- As a bear fan, What position would you rather see the bears in?
Needing to go 80 yards with a minute and change on the clock at best and no time outs? (and keep in mind, the lions likely would have tried a run or 2 to eat the clock, and the bears would not have the middle of the field as a passing option)
Or, would you feel more comfortable with the game coming down to Safford needing to score on 4th and 12?

 

[Schmidtaki]

I have gone back over the end of the game and specifically the coaching from the Lions game and there is no denying that John Fox botched the clock management and his staff was far to conservative and relied inexcusably on the defense that had given up 500 yards of offense.

The truth is that John Fox is not a brilliant in game strategist. He made mistakes in Denver and was accused of being far too conservative. He has never been a strong in game strategist and he probably never will be.

But the truth is that John Fox was not hired to be a brilliant in game strategist. He was hired to fix this team on Monday through Saturday.

Fox was hired to rebuild a broken team, to build a professional and god willing a winning culture, and to remove the embarrassment that was the Emery/Trestman era. John Fox was hired because of what he does between Monday and Saturday to prepare his team, get them playing hard, and to maximize the talent. He was hired because he can assemble an awesome staff, arguably the best we have seen in Chicago in 25 years.

John Fox was not hired because he is going to out coach guys on Sunday.

If he could out coach guys, rebuild a team culture, get guys to play hard for him, and recruit a great staff then he would be Bill Belichek and he would not have been available to hire.

That's all well and good about him being hired to rebuild a team but the NFL today is a game of offense not defense and if you don't go on the offensive you lose. Anyone that can't see that should not be coaching a team. Look at all the great teams in the league, they take it to their opponent even when they are up by 3 touchdowns and at the end of the game with 2 minutes left, you throw for it on 3rd and 4. Anyways rant over.

 

[ZOMBIE@CTESPN]

Not trying to give him an excuse. He blew it, looked like an idiot, and then was insulting in his post game comments.

But that is going to happen.

You cannot judge John Fox simply on his weaknesses.

I agree with allot what you say Im just saying you dont hire a coach at 5 mil if superbowl isnt the goal. I think he is a good coach but that last game could have had a below average, no heart team only a year ago go 500 instead we lose to worst team in nfl. Im not worried about this now cause I dont think this team is ready to go anywhere anyways. But in next few seasons this kind of stuff if team is built right can kill a team that should be going places

 

[xer0h0ur]

Vaya con dios pedejo!

Sent from a spaghetti monster circling the earth

:cubspalm:

Its "pendejo" numbnuts.