Jordan returns to NBA 2K

[Crystallas]

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more that NBA 2K8 was "weak." I thought NBA 2K8 was a great game. I couldn't disagree with you more that NBA 2K8 was barely better than Live 08. It blew Live 08 out of the water. Live started to get better in 09, and Live 10 was pretty good. Not sure why the graphics went back in time on Elite.

I did not like NBA 2K9 because they seemed to take the defense out of it, even though the basic gameplay is the same. NBA 2K10 was better, but was full of bugs. Which is why I started playing Live 09 and 10 more than the previous 5 editions.

I demand better, but I feel features are important. Once you have a solid gameplay engine, then you build on that with solid features. It's like building a sports team, once you get that franchise player (gameplay), then you build around the franchise player with solid role players (features).

I don't need gameplay to change, just for the sake of change. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. And I think the core gameplay for NBA 2K is perfectly fine.

You keep talking about how much they pay Jordan, like I said in my previous post, the game is still $59.99. The game was $59.99 when Shaq was on the cover, it's $59.99 with Bird or MJ on the cover. If they got Jordan, then the game went up to $79.99, then you'd have an argument.

And when they added Jordan to the cover, they also added an improved My Player, the Jordan my player and the Jordan Challenge. So the argument of "they spent all the money on Jordan and ignored everything else" can't be made. Then people default to the gameplay. Well, I think the gameplay is fine.

As for the commentary, I've been saying for years that games should think about just hiring their own broadcast teams. Guys like Kevin Harlan and Clark Kellogg don't have the time to do enough commentary to make the game as good as it should be.

My idea is that a company like EA should hire a retired, or former, play-by-play and color guys. Then make it their full-time job to do specific team and player commentary. Then they can also do commentary that can be patched in during the season and after trade deadlines. But then you run into this argument that it wouldn't be realistic. Then I shoot back with "when was the last time you heard Clark Kellogg call an NBA game?"

I guess we will just agree to disagree. My standards are far higher for a game, although, I never had issues with any bugs in this engine's generation(2K08-2k11).

But, like I said, I play this on the PC. When MVP Baseball 05 was the last PC baseball game for a few years, moders and hackers took this truly great engine, and released MVP 06, MVP 07, and they were absolutely excellent, better than EA could do. Mind you, these were full hacks, not just a roster update and some graphic patches. Did I pay $59.99 again and again? No. Did it cost millions to make an 06 hack. No. Did they add features to the game? Yes. Did they charge for their time, no.

My issue is that NBA 2K08 was very good, but it was also the first Basketball platform written for next-gen consoles. For not being a port, it was excellent. However, it was still missing a lot. Naturally, you would think in 09, it would fix a lot of those issues? No, in 2K10? No, in 2K11? No, but they did add Jordan, so that makes up for everything somehow.
Mike Wang is an awesome developer, but 2K needs to improve and expand this game so much more before they take my money again.

 

[Crystallas]

Live lost me after Live 99. And this is from a guy who played it when it was Laker vs. Celtics.

I don't consider anything "Live" before 95, because that was a whole new beast.

But I did log in a lot of hours playing the Bulls vs the Knicks in Lakers vs Celtics

Of the modern, late Live series. 2003 was my favorite. But I also loved the simple, yet effective UI for Live 96 on PC. It was clean, and in depth.

 

[Glide2keva]

I don't consider anything "Live" before 95, because that was a whole new beast.

But I did log in a lot of hours playing the Bulls vs the Knicks in Lakers vs Celtics

Of the modern, late Live series. 2003 was my favorite. But I also loved the simple, yet effective UI for Live 96 on PC. It was clean, and in depth.

I was talking about the history of the game.

As you well know Lakers vs. Celtics was the first game, followed by Bulls vs. Lakers, then Bulls vs. Blazers, which then turned into NBA Showdown '94 (Which was Bulls vs. Suns), then they ultimately settled on NBA Live 95 (Which in the old series would've been named Rockets vs. Knicks and even featured the two teams on the cover of the game)

So its' roots are firmly implanted in those early games because they laid the foundation.

NBA Live was such a groundbreaking game in the fact that it finally brought in the fast break into a basketball video game. No game had done it before, and alley oops were brought in. Coach K & USA Basketball (built on the same engine I think) allowed for breaking back boards, I know Coach K did.)

After Live 99, the game changed and 2K came in and I never went back to live or Madden because NFL 2K was just so good. (**** you EA for taking 2K away!)

 

[Crystallas]

I was talking about the history of the game.

As you well know Lakers vs. Celtics was the first game, followed by Bulls vs. Lakers, then Bulls vs. Blazers, which then turned into NBA Showdown '94 (Which was Bulls vs. Suns), then they ultimately settled on NBA Live 95 (Which in the old series would've been named Rockets vs. Knicks and even featured the two teams on the cover of the game)

So its' roots are firmly implanted in those early games because they laid the foundation.

NBA Live was such a groundbreaking game in the fact that it finally brought in the fast break into a basketball video game. No game had done it before, and alley oops were brought in. Coach K & USA Basketball (built on the same engine I think) allowed for breaking back boards, I know Coach K did.)

After Live 99, the game changed and 2K came in and I never went back to live or Madden because NFL 2K was just so good. (**** you EA for taking 2K away!)

Yeah, I am fully aware. LOL. I think you consider me playing Bulls vs Knicks as a play on the title, because that was literally my favorite matchup to dive into. It was games like Lakers vs Celtics that made me ditch my C64 for an x86 machine. But the Vs games were a farcry from Live 95. That's when SHIT GOT REAL lol! I miss those days.

 

[Kush77]

But, like I said, I play this on the PC. When MVP Baseball 05 was the last PC baseball game for a few years, moders and hackers took this truly great engine, and released MVP 06, MVP 07, and they were absolutely excellent, better than EA could do. Mind you, these were full hacks, not just a roster update and some graphic patches. Did I pay $59.99 again and again? No. Did it cost millions to make an 06 hack. No. Did they add features to the game? Yes. Did they charge for their time, no.

MVP Baseball was a great game.

I suppose you didn't have to pay $59.99 for a hacked game. I assume these hackers didn't pay MLB or the players association for the rights to use team names and players. That's a pretty big expense. Along with the salaries of employees.

Better than EA could do? We don't know since EA didn't get the chance to continue MVP after 05. Too bad.

 

[Crystallas]

MVP Baseball was a great game.

I suppose you didn't have to pay $59.99 for a hacked game. I assume these hackers didn't pay MLB or the players association for the rights to use team names and players. That's a pretty big expense. Along with the salaries of employees.

Better than EA could do? We don't know since EA didn't get the chance to continue MVP after 05. Too bad.

No, I didn't have to pay anything for it, because EA used to release the editors free of charge. What people did with the editors wasn't illegal, and free to distribute, as long as it wasn't resold. But this was also before the new licensing kicked in for MLB. And yes, better than EA would make it, because we were already hacking better mods than EA. In fact, we had EA developers recruiting the modders off the sites, because they figured things out with the engine that EA did did not figure out in time for the releases. Of course, this enabled modders and hackers to get competitive, and they were trying to outdo each other in desperation to get noticed and hired on.

 

[Kush77]

No, I didn't have to pay anything for it, because EA used to release the editors free of charge. What people did with the editors wasn't illegal, and free to distribute, as long as it wasn't resold. But this was also before the new licensing kicked in for MLB. And yes, better than EA would make it, because we were already hacking better mods than EA. In fact, we had EA developers recruiting the modders off the sites, because they figured things out with the engine that EA did did not figure out in time for the releases. Of course, this enabled modders and hackers to get competitive, and they were trying to outdo each other in desperation to get noticed and hired on.

I understand what your saying. In your other post you said "hackers took," not EA gave them the tools. That gave me the impression that it was illegal. Even though I still don't understand how they can release a game called MVP 06 or 07 and still use the Yankees, Cubs or Mets without having to pay for it? This was before the exclusive third-party rights were given to 2K. But companies still had to pay for the rights. It just wasn't exclusive prior to The 06 baseball games.

But what you were getting at, basically, is that these hackers made a better product and didn't charge $59.99 (or at the time $49.99). Therefore, they were better than EA - since you got a better product for free.

My point was that the hackers don't have to worry about operational costs, licensing fees, employee salaries (when some of those talented modders are aboard), advertising etc. - so of course they won't charge you $59 or $49.

I understand what you're saying.

 

[Crystallas]

Much like you can create a player in a sports game, and name them __insert restricted player name here___ to emulate a certain player, 3rd parties have that same loophole to create whatever they want. Similar to how you can buy an article of clothing, and sew on your own patch, or modify anything that you own.

But this is derailing off the original point, that developers should earn our money, and not monopolize off having exclusive rights, and release the minimum to be satisfied. Back to my original statement, we should have higher standards.

 

[Kush77]

Much like you can create a player in a sports game, and name them __insert restricted player name here___ to emulate a certain player, 3rd parties have that same loophole to create whatever they want. Similar to how you can buy an article of clothing, and sew on your own patch, or modify anything that you own.

But this is derailing off the original point, that developers should earn our money, and not monopolize off having exclusive rights, and release the minimum to be satisfied. Back to my original statement, we should have higher standards.

Oh, so all the names and teams were just edited. So there wasn't an actual Yankees logo on the game, correct?

Well, we can end it on that. I agree that there should be no exclusive rights for games. Not having MVP Baseball sucks. That was a great game. I'm lucky that I have a PS3 for the Show, but not everyone can buy a console for one game.

2005 was a bad year. We lost MVP, which I thought was the best baseball game. Then we lost NFL 2K5, which I thought was better than Madden that year. I have enjoyed Madden the last 2 years though.