Kerr says LeBron is Pippen, not MJ.

[CODE_BLUE56]

LeBron struggled mightily because he didn't win, even with Wade and Bosh to take the pressure off of him. James now has 2 guys who are supposedly able to take control of games that he can pass to. Pippen only had one guy--granted it was MJ. I think that LeBron won't win if he is trying to be the no.1 on the Heat. Maybe if Pat Riley convinces him to concede to Wade more often, he could win a championship...I don't see that happening for a while though.
But hey, if I remember correctly, a Pippen-lead team made it to the Conference finals the year that Jordan was playing baseball.
If you took Wade out of the equation in Miami, they wouldn't win 50 games and would be an early out in the playoffs.

i agree with that if that was james' first season and he was still learning the offense and developing chemistry...but any other year....i think they do win 50+ games..

dont forget lebron still has chalmers,bosh,haslem, and miller...not to mention probably more depth if you get rid of wade(hypothetical i know)

and arguably if the miami team without wade had a little more depth they would arguably be better than lebron's cavs that won 50+ games three seasons up until his decision to leave

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

i never said lebron as an overall player is better than pippen..but in the finals...i cant say he has been better than pippen...he's averaged around 18-20 PPG in the finals...his FG has dropped..and he's had 2 games below 15 points

hence the quote and bolded part:



lebron gets open looks from penetrating guards like wade and chalmers but doesnt take them..thats another thing i noticed..especially in the 4th quarter this series

I can say that Robert Horry was a better player in the Finals than Tracy McGrady seeing as how T-Mac never made it there. But that doesn't mean he was a better player.

I know what you're saying but I still don't see what the importance of it is. LeBron James' sample size in the Finals is only 10 games anyway. We all know that James is a better overall player than Pip anyway.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I agree with almost all you said but still... Jordan had amazing body control and finishing ability around the basket. LeBron is one of the best in the league at finishing around the rim but he's not at Jordan's level. I am not sure anybody is.

I don't think LeBron is anywhere close to being as good of a ball handler as Jordan. But the one skill he has better than Jordan is his passing ability, and that makes up for not having as good of a handle as Jordan.

LeBron is flat out bigger, stronger, and faster than Jordan. He can get up higher than he could. But that doesn't mean he was a flat out better athlete because Jordan did have better hands, body-control.

And sure, LeBron James was a better passer than Jordan. But Jordan pretty much had every other skill over LeBron. His timing was better, his shooting, post-up game, and coordination.

I respect where Pippen was coming from when he said he believes that LeBron could be better than Jordan. But I'm not 100% convinced that he could. I don't think he has the motivation to be. Or the coordination.

part of the reason mj was so polished over lebron is because lebron has really not worked to improve many areas he is lacking...he could improve his timing,shooting, and post up game...but he doesnt have the drive or motivation jordan did to perfect that and become the best

does lebron have the ability to fullfill his talent and develop a polished all around game that's better than jordan...honestly yes...do i think it will happen? Like you said he doesnt have the motivation to apply himself...plus he's already 26..he should have started working hard when he was younger and now his laziness is catching up to him

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I can say that Robert Horry was a better player in the Finals than Tracy McGrady seeing as how T-Mac never made it there. But that doesn't mean he was a better player.

I know what you're saying but I still don't see what the importance of it is. LeBron James' sample size in the Finals is only 10 games anyway. We all know that James is a better overall player than Pip anyway.

i see your point but its the finals...if there is anytime for your production to be at its best or the best it can be to contribute to the team its then...and so far pippen has done better in that regard

now at some point(probably in the next couple of years) i'm sure lebron will have a great finals(or multiple finals) and win a championship(or more than one) and my statement about pippen outplaying lebron in the finals will pretty much have no legs to stand on..thats why i said pippen has been better in the finals than lebron as of RIGHT NOW

its about performing on the biggest stage

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

i see your point but its the finals...if there is anytime for your production to be at its best or the best it can be to contribute to the team its then...and so far pippen has done better in that regard

now at some point(probably in the next couple of years) i'm sure lebron will have a great finals(or multiple finals) and win a championship(or more than one) and my statement about pippen outplaying lebron in the finals will pretty much have no legs to stand on..thats why i said pippen has been better in the finals than lebron as of RIGHT NOW

its about performing on the biggest stage

From a purely statistically standpoint, I don't know if Pippen has been that much better, if at all, than LeBron in the Finals.

The first time around, Bowen pretty much hold down James defensively to about 42% for the series if I recall. But James at that point was still a better player than Pippen ever was.

With the MIA-DAL 2011 series, LeBron was in pretty much the same role as Pippen and put forth a very similar style and statistical output. But Wade is no Mike. And Bosh/Anthony/Haslem/Chalmers are no Kukoc/Rodman/Longley/Harper or Grant/Cartwight/Paxson/Armstrong.

 

[james k]

i agree with that if that was james' first season and he was still learning the offense and developing chemistry...but any other year....i think they do win 50+ games..

dont forget lebron still has chalmers,bosh,haslem, and miller...not to mention probably more depth if you get rid of wade(hypothetical i know)

and arguably if the miami team without wade had a little more depth they would arguably be better than lebron's cavs that won 50+ games three seasons up until his decision to leave

Who knows, Maybe they would win 50 plus games, but without Wade, I wouldn't have seen them getting past Boston this past year. They might have been equal to the LeBron led Cavs team that made the finals and got dismantled by the Spurs, but to say that they would be any better than that is a farse.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

From a purely statistically standpoint, I don't know if Pippen has been that much better, if at all, than LeBron in the Finals.

The first time around, Bowen pretty much hold down James defensively to about 42% for the series if I recall. But James at that point was still a better player than Pippen ever was.

With the MIA-DAL 2011 series, LeBron was in pretty much the same role as Pippen and put forth a very similar style and statistical output. But Wade is no Mike. And Bosh/Anthony/Haslem/Chalmers are no Kukoc/Rodman/Longley/Harper or Grant/Cartwight/Paxson/Armstrong.

Although it doesnt mean as much as people think it does, pippen played in the hand check era rule...which gives an advantage to the defenses pippen faced(and vice versa)...and wouldnt the chicago team being better than miami actually make it more impressive that pippen was statistically more efficient than james and played a large role behind jordan?

sure lebron has been a wee bit over criticized especially in the finals(althought he did bring that upon himself)...because he wasnt consistent in his play..and didnt deliver when his team needed it

2007 finals:
lebron:22 ppg,7 rpg,6 apg 35 % fg 5+ turnovers per game(yes i know lebron was the leader of that team)

1991 finals:
pippen:20.8 PPG,9.4 RPG,6.6 APG,2.4 SPG 48.4 % fg(yes pippen was the sidekick in this finals and in every finals but he did not shy away from the spotlight completely and played fantastic defense...plus you really cant assume that pippen would have struggled like lebron if he was the "leader" of the team

2011 finals:
Lebron17.8 PPG(third behind Bosh and 3 PPG in the 4th quarter),7.2 RPG,6.8 APG,1.7 SPG 47.8% FG


1992 finals:
pippen:20.8 PPG,8.3 RPG,7.7 APG,1.5 SPG 48% FG

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Who knows, Maybe they would win 50 plus games, but without Wade, I wouldn't have seen them getting past Boston this past year. They might have been equal to the LeBron led Cavs team that made the finals and got dismantled by the Spurs, but to say that they would be any better than that is a farse.

alright....i agree with most of your post because lebron still would have had the load on himself and he would have folded again imo....

ok..so maybe lebron's miami team is about the same as the cavs team..but i do think they could consistently win 50 games without wade especially with a second option like bosh(im not sure about this first season there may have been some chemistry issues although when you look and think about it seems odd how lebron and wade can co exist..in fact lebron struggled more with wade in the game than with him out in the finals)

 

[97Bulls]

Although it doesnt mean as much as people think it does, pippen played in the hand check era rule...which gives an advantage to the defenses pippen faced(and vice versa)...and wouldnt the chicago team being better than miami actually make it more impressive that pippen was statistically more efficient than james and played a large role behind jordan?

sure lebron has been a wee bit over criticized especially in the finals(althought he did bring that upon himself)...because he wasnt consistent in his play..and didnt deliver when his team needed it

2007 finals:
lebron:22 ppg,7 rpg,6 apg 35 % fg 5+ turnovers per game(yes i know lebron was the leader of that team)

1991 finals:
pippen:20.8 PPG,9.4 RPG,6.6 APG,2.4 SPG 48.4 % fg(yes pippen was the sidekick in this finals and in every finals but he did not shy away from the spotlight completely and played fantastic defense...plus you really cant assume that pippen would have struggled like lebron if he was the "leader" of the team

2011 finals:
Lebron17.8 PPG(third behind Bosh and 3 PPG in the 4th quarter),7.2 RPG,6.8 APG,1.7 SPG 47.8% FG


1992 finals:
pippen:20.8 PPG,8.3 RPG,7.7 APG,1.5 SPG 48% FG

Nice post. Id add that what reallly kills this comparison is how terry destroyed james. Especially after he (terry) said james couldn't guard him. Pippen would've shoved that ball down his throat defensively.