Kobe vs. MJ for the LAST TIME ALREADY!

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Last night was pretty tough.

I was watching some videos with some students last night and one was Kobe/Jordan highlights. They all said that Kobe has already surpassed Jordan, that there is only one Kobe and that he is first and Jordan is second.

Boy do I wish Pfeiffer was there...boy do I wish Pfeiffer was there...

3 years ago I was in New York and remember hearing Mark Jackson say on national television that Kobe was better than Jordan then.

Anyway, I thought we could make a list of reasons why Kobe is NOT better than Jordan.

Don't get me wrong. Kobe is a great, great player. He's the closest thing to Jordan playing right now. He is top 10 all-time greatest material. In the 14th year of anyones career usually you slow down but Kobe is still going strong at 30 points a game.

But when you say he is BETTER than Jordan you are saying he's one of the top 2 or 3 players to ever play and I don't buy it.

So if you believe Kobe is NOT better than Jordan, let's start listing reasons.

I'm certain we can come up with no less than one thousand reasons.

Let's go.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

1. Michael Jordan was always the main man in his championships. He was never the 2nd or 3rd best guy in one of them.

2. Michael Jordan 6-0 in the Finals. Kobe Bryant has played in six finals but is currently 4-2. Jordan wasn't in the business of losing Finals.

3. Jordan didn't have the luxury of playing with the best center in the league as soon as he came into the league. One guy had Dave Corzine, Chris Engler (who?), Charles Jones, Caldwell Jones and Juwann Oldham; the other guy had Shaq (and not to mention corrupt officiating).

4. Jordan retired after 9 seasons and retired the second time after only four more years. He very well could have had 7 or 8 championships.

5. Jordan did not come from High School.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

6. 28 points and 6.5 rebounds in his rookie year at 21 years old. Kobe had 22.5 points at the same age (trying to be fair since he jumped from High School).

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Perhaps someone could find a way to line their stats up side by side, year by year and show how old they were each season.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

7. Jordan doubles up on Kobe in steals.

8. Jordan - 40 points in an All-Star team when the league's talent was far better than now.

9. Jordan career playoff averages: 33.4 ppg, 6.4 rpg, 5.7 apg to go with almost 1 block a game. Kobe: 25 ppg, 5.1 rpg, 4.7 apg. Good but nowhere near as good as Jordan where it matters most.

 

[houheffna]

I think you are preaching to the choir in a Bulls forum....don't think anyone over here said Kobe was better than Jordan...

 

[Diddy1122]

houheffna wrote:

I think you are preaching to the choir in a Bulls forum....don't think anyone over here said Kobe was better than Jordan...

Agreed...but I'll list a couple things anyway.

MJ
NBA Record Most points averaged in an NBA Finals series: 41ppg during 1993 Finals vs. Suns

1 of just 5 players to score 30 points in all games of an NBA Fianls (Olajuwan, Barry, Shaq, & Baylor are the other 4)

Only player to record back to back 50pt games in a playoff series

Most consecutive 45pt games in a playoff series (3)

Only player to score 15+ pts in all career playoff games (179 games)

Highest points per game average in playoff career (33.4ppg)

Most 50, 40, & 30 point games in playoff career

I could go on & on but I'll just stop now.

MJ is a living god.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Go and take all this, and show it to a group of people that think Kobe is better. No one here would even begin to think that.

 

[houheffna]

I have said that Kobe is more sound fundamentally...there is only one thing Jordan could do that Kobe couldn't do...and that is impose his will mentally on the basketball court. Kobe is better concerning the sheer fundamentals. Because so much of the game is mental, Jordan is the better player. But people in Chicago should revere what you see in Kobe...and enjoy him while he is here because he looks and plays like Jordan on the basketball court........

 

[Shakes]

The only thing Kobe can possibly do that's better than Jordan would be to win 7 championships. He's only the same age Jordan was when he made the first comeback, so it's not totally impossible.

On an individual level though I doubt you'll find many people on a Bulls forum support the idea that Kobe is better.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Once again that's not what I was saying at all man. I understand this is a Bulls forum where Bulls fans like to get together and talk about the Bulls and their favorite Bulls players and offer analysis after Bulls games and discuss what might happen this season to their beloved Bulls and anything Bulls-related from the Bulls games. I understand I'm preaching to the choir.

The reason I brought this up was to ask for reasons why Jordan is better from people who know him best - Bulls fans who watched him most, if not all of his career (for those of us who are old enough).

The feedback thus far looks good. Thanks everyone.

b]houheffna wrote:[/b]

I think you are preaching to the choir in a Bulls forum....don't think anyone over here said Kobe was better than Jordan...

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Loud sigh...

That's not the reason I asked it!

AHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!

lol

clonetrooper264 wrote:

Go and take all this, and show it to a group of people that think Kobe is better. No one here would even begin to think that.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

houheffna wrote:

I have said that Kobe is more sound fundamentally...there is only one thing Jordan could do that Kobe couldn't do...and that is impose his will mentally on the basketball court. Kobe is better concerning the sheer fundamentals. Because so much of the game is mental, Jordan is the better player. But people in Chicago should revere what you see in Kobe...and enjoy him while he is here because he looks and plays like Jordan on the basketball court........

That is one of the best comments about him. Kobe is absolutely a great player we should enjoy. In his 14th season he's still the best player in the league and like you said, we should enjoy his greatness while it's here.

Jordan's will was unmatched by anyone I've ever seen. Even more than Bill Russell, I think. And his charisma...politicians dream of having his charisma (how he could be in the same room as the President and for the majority of the attention to go to MJ and for the President to be a second or third in the minds of everyone there.

I can understand when people say Kobe reminds them of Jordan, it makes me shutter when they say he's better than Jordan because he won 3 titles earlier when he had Shaq and some corrupt officiating that handed him at least 2 of those on a silver platter.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Does it matter that he was only Robin when he won his first 3 and that he only has one as a main man (Horry has 7 - would that mean Horry's better than Jordan since he has more, Bill Sharman?)

Shakes wrote:

The only thing Kobe can possibly do that's better than Jordan would be to win 7 championships. He's only the same age Jordan was when he made the first comeback, so it's not totally impossible.

 

[Bullsman24]

ok, he just said that's something he could do that's better than jordan. not that it would make him better.

 

[theCHI_Life84]

damn kids just dont know their history these days.

 

[Shakes]

Frank Breakfast-Styleham wrote:

Does it matter that he was only Robin when he won his first 3 and that he only has one as a main man (Horry has 7 - would that mean Horry's better than Jordan since he has more, Bill Sharman?)

I don't want to go all "organisations win championships" here, but it's all about the team not the individual. All I'm saying is that if Kobe wins 7 rings then he's got one achievement over MJ, not that it makes him the better player.

LeBron might just be a better player than MJ when it's all said and done, and even if he never wins a championship because they never give him good enough support, that wouldn't change my opinion. Team success reflects on the whole team, not one individual.

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Yes i really think Lebron will be top 5 greatest. hes truly one of a kind.

 

[houheffna]

I can understand when people say Kobe reminds them of Jordan, it makes me shutter when they say he's better than Jordan because he won 3 titles earlier when he had Shaq and some corrupt officiating that handed him at least 2 of those on a silver platter.

Jordan had the referees hookin' him up with chicks on the side....I would think the Bulls were more than a few times helped by biased officiating...

There was one game AGAINST the Bulls that was obviously biased...Bulls vs. Phoenix Game 3.

Other than that, Jordan got the benefit of the doubt more than any superstar I have ever seen in the NBA...

 

[Frank Breakfast Styleham]

Jordan certainly got away with the offensive foul on Russell in the last championship so you have a point there.

Based on what i saw however, the Lakers had SO many gift calls during their "dynasty" it made me want to stop watching forever. It was clear it wasn't just "human error" which is the safe answer everyone always runs to but blatantly obvious the referees WANTED them in the Finals.

Rick Fox PUSHING someone out of bounds and it being Lakers ball.

Steve Smith nearly being flagarant-fouled and there being no-call. The Lakers use that break to take the lead late in the last game of that series and advance to the Finals (if that was Kobe and a Blazer fouled him the same way he'd be on the line, you better believe it).

The Kings series.

Kobe elbowing a player in the face and the foul being called on the player who got his face smashed by Kobe.

Shaq fouling a Suns player late in the 4th but the foul going to Robert Horry who wasn't close enough to even touch the Sun when Shaq had 5 fouls (to keep him in the game).

Steve Nash being fouled TWICE late in the 4th but there being no call. Kobe takes it and scores the game winner.

The Minnesota game when Sports Center made an entire Top 10 to all the terrible calls (Ainge saying "THERE'S NO CONTACT!") when a foul was called. Yeah, the Lakers lost that game but that doesn't excuse the league trying to give the Lakers an advantage.

Kobe elbowing a Magic player in the face last Finals because he dared to defend him and there being no tech on Kobe (if he got one more he would have been suspended a game).

Just last week wasn't there a controversy on a Kobe play? Yet as they always do everyone said "You've got to swallow the whistle because it's Kobe and it's in the 4th quarter." If he fouls someone BLOW THE WHISTLE! So the rules are for everyone but Kobe? BLOW. THE. WHISTLE.

See, I can't do this with Jordan. I can only think of 1 or 2 examples...maybe it's because it was so many years ago but Kobe's Lakers championships are FULL of controvery and subjectivity.

Besides the shove off on Russell I remember nothing else other than that in Jordan's dynasties.

Are you saying some of Jordan's championships are tarnished because I don't see that (again with the exception of the Russell play). Anyone who saw those games would HAVE to agree at least 1, if not 2 of Kobe's titles were assisted by someone other than the players.