Lamarr Houston blows knee celebrating a sack down 30

JDB_219

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So Webb was no better than a backup, but was pencilled in as the starting left tackle, oh boy, that's a reach and a half.

Not what I said. I said we all discounted the Allen sacks because we knew he was only beating JWebb, who was not a good player . If you disagree with that, then you are just arguing for the exercise..
 

Nick80

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Not what I said. I said we all discounted the Allen sacks because we knew he was only beating JWebb, who was not a good player . If you disagree with that, then you are just arguing for the exercise..

You mention him in the same breath as two backups, one of which was on this team, Webb was awful, Allen beat him because he could which is all Willie Young did, like I have already posted, you or others would spin it the other way if he had failed to beat these back up tackles and pointed to him not being able to perform etc etc etc. It's easy to be selective.

Young beat the man in front of him and that's a good thing, football is a simple sport and celebrating something a player does that he is meant to do is ok, Young has been a bright spot from a rushing the passer POV this year, and he has been able to do so because of the work put in by Houston. Trying to make out it's not a big deal just seems like a negative standpoint for the sake of being negative ..
 

JDB_219

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You mention him in the same breath as two backups, one of which was on this team, Webb was awful, Allen beat him because he could which is all Willie Young did, like I have already posted, you or others would spin it the other way if he had failed to beat these back up tackles and pointed to him not being able to perform etc etc etc. It's easy to be selective.

Young beat the man in front of him and that's a good thing, football is a simple sport and celebrating something a player does that he is meant to do is ok, Young has been a bright spot from a rushing the passer POV this year, and he has been able to do so because of the work put in by Houston. Trying to make out it's not a big deal just seems like a negative standpoint for the sake of being negative ..

I sure would question him if our designated pass rusher couldn't beat up Carimi. Just like I question Houston for not doing the same when he had the same bums to his front.
 

Nick80

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I sure would question him if our designated pass rusher couldn't beat up Carimi. Just like I question Houston for not doing the same when he had the same bums to his front.

Once again Houston has never been a sack guy, but his stats were outlined by Emery and others on here in the days after he was signed, his body of work this year has spoken for itself. Keep looking for the negative though, this is pretty amusing.
 

Run the ball

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I thought Houston was doing his job so far, our biggest issue last season was stopping the run and I thought we had improved on that a fair bit so far this year.


However, the sack dance was ridiculous at that point of the game. I wish more players acted like Barry Sanders, act like you've been there before and be classy.
 

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I thought Houston was doing his job so far, our biggest issue last season was stopping the run and I thought we had improved on that a fair bit so far this year.


However, the sack dance was ridiculous at that point of the game
. I wish more players acted like Barry Sanders, act like you've been there before and be classy.

Pretty much.
 

JDB_219

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Once again Houston has never been a sack guy, but his stats were outlined by Emery and others on here in the days after he was signed, his body of work this year has spoken for itself. Keep looking for the negative though, this is pretty amusing.

I know Houston isn't a sack guy. That is problem for a defensive end/tackle who isn't a Vince Wifork type plugger. He is apparently the Emille Heskey of defensive linemen, doing all the dirty work but getting none of the glory.
 

Nick80

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I know Houston isn't a sack guy. That is problem for a defensive end/tackle who isn't a Vince Wifork type plugger. He is apparently the Emille Heskey of defensive linemen, doing all the dirty work but getting none of the glory.

The guy has done his job, and will unlikely continue to do it for the rest of the year due to him forgetting what had happened prior to him sacking the back up QB. Rag on him for that, but not the work/play he has put in thus far on a D that continues to be a sub par unit at the NFL level.
 

Mongo_76

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Once again Houston has never been a sack guy, but his stats were outlined by Emery and others on here in the days after he was signed, his body of work this year has spoken for itself. Keep looking for the negative though, this is pretty amusing.


What happened to Houston this year is what happened to Allen, and Peppers and just about every DE that has had to play in Tuckers defense.


He was asked to play a strategy that limits the ability of the DE to get to the QB. The first thing they are asked to do is play a 9 technique (where as in most other 4-3 defenses, the DE plays a 5 or 6 technique.)

Moving them outside this far allows for separation to the OT's. This separation allows the Tackle to gain position and the pad-level advantage.

Second, because his interior line plays a 2-gap, (generally the 0 and 2 techniques) the DE's have respect the A and B gap runs and "pinch". What this means is they are required to read the play before reacting. They still also have contain responsibilities to off-tackle runs. Think of it like a Safety that has to respect the play-action (without biting) before committing to a receivers route.



In general, based on my studying of Houston and Allen, like Peppers and Wootton and several DE's before them, they have all played into the system and are executing the way it's designed.

There should be no confusion as to why the interior line is getting more sacks. The DE's will almost always be a step behind and at a pad-level disadvantage to the Tackles.


Unfortunately, our DE's are not crap, our DC is.
 

Run the ball

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Mongo, do you really think a different D coordinator is going to make a big difference with our struggles at linebacker and our secondary?

I'm not defending Mel Tucker here, I'm just saying we seriously lack in defensive talent, that's pretty difficult to hide on tape.
 

Nick80

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What happened to Houston this year is what happened to Allen, and Peppers and just about every DE that has had to play in Tuckers defense.


He was asked to play a strategy that limits the ability of the DE to get to the QB. The first thing they are asked to do is play a 9 technique (where as in most other 4-3 defenses, the DE plays a 5 or 6 technique.)

Moving them outside this far allows for separation to the OT's. This separation allows the Tackle to gain position and the pad-level advantage.

Second, because his interior line plays a 2-gap, (generally the 0 and 2 techniques) the DE's have respect the A and B gap runs and "pinch". What this means is they are required to read the play before reacting. They still also have contain responsibilities to off-tackle runs. Think of it like a Safety that has to respect the play-action (without biting) before committing to a receivers route.



In general, based on my studying of Houston and Allen, like Peppers and Wootton and several DE's before them, they have all played into the system and are executing the way it's designed.

There should be no confusion as to why the interior line is getting more sacks. The DE's will almost always be a step behind and at a pad-level disadvantage to the Tackles.


Unfortunately, our DE's are not crap, our DC is.

So in short Houston is doing what he is asked to do and isn't that shit?

Funny JDB thanked the post considering that's been my point through out.

This thread could have been about 6 pages less than it currently stands if this had been mooted last night ..
 

Mongo_76

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Mongo, do you really think a different D coordinator is going to make a big difference with our struggles at linebacker and our secondary?

I'm not defending Mel Tucker here, I'm just saying we seriously lack in defensive talent, that's pretty difficult to hide on tape.


Talent was blamed for the issues last year (Ie: we were old and the injury excuse). However, I didn't see it that way. Because the majority of those "aged vets" were actually the only guys that were performing early. And the injuries didn't really begin to impact play until around week 6.

But through week 6, we were already one of the lowest ranked defenses in the NFL.

Talent isn't the issue, imo. Scheme, d-sets, and play-calling on that side of the ball are. As important, Tucker has always been a "This is what I'm bringing, try to stop it" DC.

People will call this "vanilla". But what it really is is a system that allows for intelligent QB's to completely pick it apart. Brady didn't play better than usual yesterday, Brady was able to identify where to hit us before the snap. Then it was just a matter of dropping back and releasing.

The only "talent" issue I see is that there are a lot of square pegs in round holes. Meaning, players like Conte and Shea and even Briggs were not drafted to play a 2-gap read/react scheme.
 

JDB_219

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So in short Houston is doing what he is asked to do and isn't that shit?

Funny JDB thanked the post considering that's been my point through out.

This thread could have been about 6 pages less than it currently stands if this had been mooted last night ..

I thanked the post for the thoughtfulness and effort put into it not because I agree with all of the content.
 

Nick80

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I thanked the post for the thoughtfulness and effort put into it.

heskey-stepover-slow-o.gif
 

Run the ball

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You're one of my favorite posters Mongo and I appreciate the technical side that you bring to our board, but I don't really agree about your evaluation of our defensive talent. If anything, early last season showed that. They were playing pretty well before the injury bug(they were getting turnovers at least), but fell apart after losing key players(most teams do).


I'm sure Tucker will get canned at the end of the season, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of scheme they'll go with next year and how the D talent will fit that scheme.
 

Mongo_76

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So in short Houston is doing what he is asked to do and isn't that shit?

Yup. Houston is doing what he's been asked to do.

Take a look at his hit + hurries. He is #1 in QB hits. I think he's #4 overall in Total pressures?


That is indicative of a DE that is a half step away from getting a sack. Now move him to the 5 technique (a yard closer to the QB) and what do those hits become?
 

Mongo_76

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I'm sure Tucker will get canned at the end of the season, so it'll be interesting to see what kind of scheme they'll go with next year and how the D talent will fit that scheme.

I honestly think that if we get torched by the Packers again, he will be gone by Monday.
 

Mongo_76

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You're one of my favorite posters Mongo and I appreciate the technical side that you bring to our board, but I don't really agree about your evaluation of our defensive talent. If anything, early last season showed that. They were playing pretty well before the injury bug(they were getting turnovers at least), but fell apart after losing key players(most teams do).


Much appreciated.

I think if you look at points allowed and yards allowed through week 5, you would see it differently.

As far as the turnovers, I agree, we were definitely causing mistakes by the other teams and forcing turnovers.

In that regard, do you think Tucker preaches and teaches this to a level that Marinelli (and vets) do?
 

Globetrotter

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I see that Willie ran roughshod over bums which is what I expect from good players. I'm just not going to order my # 97 Pro Bowl jersey because he worked over those two guys for sacks. I am satisfied with his performance but context counts. When Jared Allen was running around JWebb we all discounted those sacks to some degree didn't we?
http://www.chicagotribune.com/sns-r...ewsml-sxd1f63a-20140915-sxc-story.html#page=1



http://bleacherreport.com/articles/...s-help-if-falcons-plan-to-improve-this-season

You bring up 2 games where he faced shitty OL.

I tell you to look further than those 2 games.

You come back with quotes/links about the 2 games you've already brought up..

Again, look at the other 75% of his games.
 

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