LeBron called Rose after loss

[houheffna]

I don't think its unobtainable for BG to be as good as Redd.

You overrate the 3pt percentage thing. Redd, Allen and BG are great 3pt shooters, they are all pretty much on the same level. That said, I wouldn't want to be tied down to a 9mil+ contract for Gordon. We can get a player who helps defensively like Kirk does and is not a liability on that end of the court...and can shoot 3pt well, that would be enough. Well, actually, that sounds like Kirk...

By the way, Kirk is superior to Gordon defensively and eventhough he had a bad year, he shot well from 3pt, and has NEVER had as bad a year as Gordon had shooting from 3pt last year. If the Bulls get Bosh and Lebron, Hinrich will fit right in. No reason to complain over Gordon...really isn't...

 

[Shakes]

houheffna wrote:

If the Bulls get Bosh and Lebron

If the Bulls get Bosh AND LeBron we can have Lindsey Hunter as our starting SG and I wont complain. :laugh:

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

I don't think its unobtainable for BG to be as good as Redd.

You overrate the 3pt percentage thing. Redd, Allen and BG are great 3pt shooters, they are all pretty much on the same level. That said, I wouldn't want to be tied down to a 9mil+ contract for Gordon. We can get a player who helps defensively like Kirk does and is not a liability on that end of the court...and can shoot 3pt well, that would be enough. Well, actually, that sounds like Kirk...

By the way, Kirk is superior to Gordon defensively and eventhough he had a bad year, he shot well from 3pt, and has NEVER had as bad a year as Gordon had shooting from 3pt last year. If the Bulls get Bosh and Lebron, Hinrich will fit right in. No reason to complain over Gordon...really isn't...

Hou we can go in circles till the end of time debating the same bg vs kirk debate. I stated my opinion that Bg's shooting, clutch ability and average defense is more important to me than kirk's fiestyness, better defense, ball handling and medicore shooting and streakiness. If we land only one star, I think BG's offense would be a big help, if we land two then I'd be fine with Raja Bell or Azaubuike type player if we had to cut costs. I just don't think management should be let off the hook for picking the worse player imo.

 

[houheffna]

Hou we can go in circles till the end of time debating the same bg vs kirk debate. I stated my opinion that Bg's shooting, clutch ability and average defense is more important to me than kirk's fiestyness, better defense, ball handling and medicore shooting and streakiness. If we land only one star, I think BG's offense would be a big help, if we land two then I'd be fine with Raja Bell or Azaubuike type player if we had to cut costs. I just don't think management should be let off the hook for picking the worse player imo.

Kirk's "better" defensively? If you get Lebron, BG won't see the ball in the clutch. I am looking for big things to happen man. Griping over mediocre players (Gordon and Kirk) is just so uncalled for. If they get Lebron, you build around that, Gordon doesn't matter.


The problem is you don't evaluate their games properly. Management shouldn't be let off the hook for being human? If its a mistake, then boo friggin hoo man...who cares? The Bulls have big plans for the summer man, and Gordon is so damn insignificant to the Bulls its unbelievable.

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Hou we can go in circles till the end of time debating the same bg vs kirk debate. I stated my opinion that Bg's shooting, clutch ability and average defense is more important to me than kirk's fiestyness, better defense, ball handling and medicore shooting and streakiness. If we land only one star, I think BG's offense would be a big help, if we land two then I'd be fine with Raja Bell or Azaubuike type player if we had to cut costs. I just don't think management should be let off the hook for picking the worse player imo.

Kirk's "better" defensively? If you get Lebron, BG won't see the ball in the clutch. I am looking for big things to happen man. Griping over mediocre players (Gordon and Kirk) is just so uncalled for. If they get Lebron, you build around that, Gordon doesn't matter.


The problem is you don't evaluate their games properly. Management shouldn't be let off the hook for being human? If its a mistake, then boo friggin hoo man...who cares? The Bulls have big plans for the summer man, and Gordon is so damn insignificant to the Bulls its unbelievable.

Sure he will. Bron gets doubled or tripled in the clutch BG can knock down shots. Kerr and Pax certainly did it at times for us when we had MJ and you wouldn't classify them as guys to get the ball in the clutch. Its something that Deng and Kirk to a lesser extent at are not very good. You need guys who can step it up and make the shot.

Management shouldn't be let off the hook. That is their job. If you can't put them on the hook for a basketball decision or pushing around the coach, what can you put them on the hook for? You had a guy slumping aand drafted a #1 draft pick at his postion and a guy who came off of a couple of career years entering fa and you pick the first one? I just don't believe he is as insignificant as you make him out to be.

 

[houheffna]

Sure he will. Bron gets doubled or tripled in the clutch BG can knock down shots. Kerr and Pax certainly did it at times for us when we had MJ and you wouldn't classify them as guys to get the ball in the clutch. Its something that Deng and Kirk to a lesser extent at are not very good. You need guys who can step it up and make the shot.

Management shouldn't be let off the hook. That is their job. If you can't put them on the hook for a basketball decision or pushing around the coach, what can you put them on the hook for? You had a guy slumping aand drafted a #1 draft pick at his postion and a guy who came off of a couple of career years entering fa and you pick the first one? I just don't believe he is as insignificant as you make him out to be.

Well do what you have to do...hold management accountable for not paying Gordon 9,10 mil a year to hit an occasional jumpshot in the clutch. Good luck with that.

Neither Kerr or Pax were paid anything close to that amount comparable to the times. They were seen as role players, not key parts to a championship team. Gordon is considered a better player than Kerr or Pax, and more expensive. That said, on a team with Lebron and Rose, Gordon is a role player, who splits playing time with other guards like Hinrich for defensive purposes. I would rather pay 9mil+ to a SG who can guard his position at least at an average level, and score in a variety of ways. Gordon doesn't do that. I guess that is why I bring up Joe Johnson so much. He is the ideal shooting guard. Gordon is not, and he is insignificant to this team, and he is only significant to the Pistons because of cap space. At least that is the way it looked with him sitting on the bench so much...

 

[TheStig]

houheffna wrote:

Sure he will. Bron gets doubled or tripled in the clutch BG can knock down shots. Kerr and Pax certainly did it at times for us when we had MJ and you wouldn't classify them as guys to get the ball in the clutch. Its something that Deng and Kirk to a lesser extent at are not very good. You need guys who can step it up and make the shot.

Management shouldn't be let off the hook. That is their job. If you can't put them on the hook for a basketball decision or pushing around the coach, what can you put them on the hook for? You had a guy slumping aand drafted a #1 draft pick at his postion and a guy who came off of a couple of career years entering fa and you pick the first one? I just don't believe he is as insignificant as you make him out to be.

Well do what you have to do...hold management accountable for not paying Gordon 9,10 mil a year to hit an occasional jumpshot in the clutch. Good luck with that.

Neither Kerr or Pax were paid anything close to that amount comparable to the times. They were seen as role players, not key parts to a championship team. Gordon is considered a better player than Kerr or Pax, and more expensive. That said, on a team with Lebron and Rose, Gordon is a role player, who splits playing time with other guards like Hinrich for defensive purposes. I would rather pay 9mil+ to a SG who can guard his position at least at an average level, and score in a variety of ways. Gordon doesn't do that. I guess that is why I bring up Joe Johnson so much. He is the ideal shooting guard. Gordon is not, and he is insignificant to this team, and he is only significant to the Pistons because of cap space. At least that is the way it looked with him sitting on the bench so much...

You and I both know he can do more than that and would make the perfect third option on a championship team.

Thats a rather ambigous point, MJ wasn't even paid a third of that when he passed the ball to Pax. Lets not compare salaried from nearly 20 years ago and like 3 or 4 cbas ago. BG is an average defender and only gets swapped with Kirk because Kirk is a above average defender. Same way BG and Kirk were swapped on the offensive end. Your ideal shooting guard is set to make about as much as both Kirk and BG combined next year, I would view that as less than ideal for an older guard who runs a lot of iso. I don't view him as insignifigant or a bad fit. He would be a great fit with Rose, Deng, Noah and Bosh.

 

[houheffna]

You and I both know he can do more than that and would make the perfect third option on a championship team.

Thats a rather ambigous point, MJ wasn't even paid a third of that when he passed the ball to Pax. Lets not compare salaried from nearly 20 years ago and like 3 or 4 cbas ago. BG is an average defender and only gets swapped with Kirk because Kirk is a above average defender. Same way BG and Kirk were swapped on the offensive end. Your ideal shooting guard is set to make about as much as both Kirk and BG combined next year, I would view that as less than ideal for an older guard who runs a lot of iso. I don't view him as insignifigant or a bad fit. He would be a great fit with Rose, Deng, Noah and Bosh.

Reading is a skill man...I said "comparable to the times"...Pax today would not get 9mil neither would Kerr...

If BG was an average defender, he wouldn't get subbed out. Defense across the league is bad, he gets subbed out because Kirk is a very good defensive player, and Gordon sucks at on the ball defence. Lets call a spade a spade here...

I don't know...but don't piss on me and tell me its raining by saying Gordon can play average defense in the NBA...give me a break.

I agree Gordon would be a great fit offensively, but not at 9 mil, and he is not a third option on a team with Rose, Bosh, Lebron. He is the fourth option. And with Deng, possibly lower. Which means he most likely won't get many shots. Third option guys are Garnett, Odom, Manu...those are the guys who have played that role on championship teams. All three players right now are better than Ben Gordon. Can Gordon play that role? I don't know, those are very versatile players.

Because Kirk can do more than shoot straight, he too is a great fit for this team. He can help a lot as a combo guard off the bench. And if we got Gordon, we would still need more size in the backcourt. I don't like paying fourth, fifth options 54mil...too much when you have players who are more important that have to get paid like Rose and Noah. Gordon just isn't that important.

 

[TheStig]

But BG isn't comparable to Pax. Pax never put up 20ppg and scorers get paid. Find me a 20ppg scorer who makes significantly less. BG's career scoring average is more than double. I was making the point that down the stretch, BG can still contribute very well in the clutch and spread the floor.

BG is an average defender. Look at his last year here, no one killed him. Kirk is better but BG is not Hedo, he stays in front of his man well and tries. He is not the natural defender that Kirk is but stop making him into some horrible liability that he isn't.

Again, I said he would be a great third option with to Rose and Bosh. You are going off the extreme tangent that we get the mvp and another top 10 player. If I win the lottery, I wouldn't care bout money either but lets not go off on fantasies.

I disagree, to me he is a big liability offensively. He can't finish at all and is a very streaky shooter. Maybe he would be better off the bench but Kirk is not the same player that we resigned and isn't as valuable as you make him seem. He certainly isn't a starting caliber sg like he is asked to play.

 

[houheffna]

Paxson could spread the floor, Kerr could spread the floor, Kyle Korver can spread the floor. You don't have to pay that guy $50mil. Spreading the floor is not worth that much. Hinrich spreads the floor...he shoots at least 35% from the floor every year in the league.

You can put Gordon with Rose and Bosh, you don't win a championship. That is not a championship team. So sure you can put him on a decent team and have him be a third option...no problem...

As far as defense goes, he stays in front of his man and tries? That sounds like the special Olympics, not an average defensive player. He is definitely not average. It is unbelievable that you are so damn delusional that you overestimate Gordon, an okay but forgettable player....but underestimate certain great players who are in the same era...grossly. Like I said, you need to leave your personal feelings out of player assessments. It clouds your vision.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

TheStig wrote:

Sure he will. Bron gets doubled or tripled in the clutch BG can knock down shots. Kerr and Pax certainly did it at times for us when we had MJ and you wouldn't classify them as guys to get the ball in the clutch. Its something that Deng and Kirk to a lesser extent at are not very good. You need guys who can step it up and make the shot.

If Lebron get´s doubled or tripled then hello Mr. Rose!

 

[RC_Skinny22]

And damn all guys here talk like Lebron already signed here!

 

[Shakes]

TheStig wrote:

But BG isn't comparable to Pax. Pax never put up 20ppg and scorers get paid. Find me a 20ppg scorer who makes significantly less. BG's career scoring average is more than double. I was making the point that down the stretch, BG can still contribute very well in the clutch and spread the floor.

BG isn't going to score 20PPG if LeBron is here though. I'd guess he'd be closer to 13 PPG. Find me a 13 PPG scorer who doesn't rack up assist or rebounds and is only an average defender making 10 million a year and you've found someone people think is grossly overpaid.

 

[houheffna]

BG isn't going to score 20PPG if LeBron is here though. I'd guess he'd be closer to 13 PPG. Find me a 13 PPG scorer who doesn't rack up assist or rebounds and is only an average defender making 10 million a year and you've found someone people think is grossly overpaid.

My point exactly...except mines was about 20x longer and much more exasperated...lol.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

Sure he will. Bron gets doubled or tripled in the clutch BG can knock down shots. Kerr and Pax certainly did it at times for us when we had MJ and you wouldn't classify them as guys to get the ball in the clutch. Its something that Deng and Kirk to a lesser extent at are not very good. You need guys who can step it up and make the shot.

Management shouldn't be let off the hook. That is their job. If you can't put them on the hook for a basketball decision or pushing around the coach, what can you put them on the hook for? You had a guy slumping aand drafted a #1 draft pick at his postion and a guy who came off of a couple of career years entering fa and you pick the first one? I just don't believe he is as insignificant as you make him out to be.

Well do what you have to do...hold management accountable for not paying Gordon 9,10 mil a year to hit an occasional jumpshot in the clutch. Good luck with that.

Neither Kerr or Pax were paid anything close to that amount comparable to the times. They were seen as role players, not key parts to a championship team. Gordon is considered a better player than Kerr or Pax, and more expensive. That said, on a team with Lebron and Rose, Gordon is a role player, who splits playing time with other guards like Hinrich for defensive purposes. I would rather pay 9mil+ to a SG who can guard his position at least at an average level, and score in a variety of ways. Gordon doesn't do that. I guess that is why I bring up Joe Johnson so much. He is the ideal shooting guard. Gordon is not, and he is insignificant to this team, and he is only significant to the Pistons because of cap space. At least that is the way it looked with him sitting on the bench so much...[/quote

i dont think you watch atlanta hawk games. if you do, you might be watching wrong.

 

[houheffna]

i dont think you watch atlanta hawk games. if you do, you might be watching wrong.

Not going to argue with a guy who thinks Gordon is as good as Johnson. That is ultimate basketball retardation...can't do it...

 

[Kbar17]

Still Ben Gordon love and hate? I really don't understand the extreme emotion of either side. Do I like Ben Gordon? Yes. Do I like Ben Gordon for his current contract? No.

Ben Gordon is better than Joe Johnson in one way. If I had to take Ben Gordon at his current overpaid contract or Joe Johnson at the max.... I'd take BG. At the same pay rate, it's JJ. If the Bulls sign Joe Johnson to a max deal, I'll be upset. If we get LeBron or Wade, I'll be completely over BG. If we still need 3 point shooting get Morrow, Korver, or Redick.

 

[houheffna]

If I had a choice of either Johnson at the max or Gordon at present contract, I would rather have a lethal injection...lol

I definitely don't want Johnson at the max, but if we get Lebron and Bosh or just Lebron, I can't sit up and reminisce about the Ben Gordon days...that is just silly.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

i dont think you watch atlanta hawk games. if you do, you might be watching wrong.

Not going to argue with a guy who thinks Gordon is as good as Johnson. That is ultimate basketball retardation...can't do it...

i think gordon is better than johnson in the playoffs. i dont think you have an argument to refute that.

 

[pinkizdead]

houheffna wrote:

If I had a choice of either Johnson at the max or Gordon at present contract, I would rather have a lethal injection...lol

I definitely don't want Johnson at the max, but if we get Lebron and Bosh or just Lebron, I can't sit up and reminisce about the Ben Gordon days...that is just silly.

i agree. i just think joe johnson is one of the most overrated shooting guards in the nba.