Lions Loss was the Dagger, Time to Move on to 2023

[JoJoBoxer]

you sound like a fucking angry 10 year old child cause your team isn't winning. there's other shit to be mad about. your NFL team isn't one of them.

Don't tell me about what to be mad.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I watch the Bears because of Justin Fields and him doing something insane every week. I want high scoring games that the Bears lose. Then I want them to get a top 3 pick and trade with some QB desperate team and make out like bandits with a bunch of draft picks.

Weird how the Bears offense suddenly became must-watch theatre while the defense is what is used when commercials do not give you enough time to prepare a snack or use the bathroom or create a post on CCS. Sure, you listen to what is going on, but you do not have your eyes glued to the tv, like yesteryear.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

It’s that run pro

Punt pro is also helpful.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Bears might* win 2 more games this season.

5 wins could have them just outside the top 5. Being able to trade down and land a king’s ransom while already having a franchise QB on the roster is 100000000x better than winning a stupid meaningless game that gets you one step closer to winning a participation trophy in the playoffs.

Even if the top QBs are gone, the higher the pick, the better chance of some talent falling to you that you never thought possible happening.

Even that is a win over getting that one or two extra games won in a lost season.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I picture you wearing a tweed sport coat with elbow patches as you typed this on a Smith Corona.

I am all about the bow tie.

 

[BearClaw55]

Context

One game had a punt blocked for a TD and the other had a pick 6 for a TD

Doesn’t overshadow how bad the defense is, constantly giving up 3rd & longs and unable to get a needed stop.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

And Bears might have a trade partner. Or they might end up being stuck drafting some guy they could have got in the mid rounds, or they might get injured, or might just be a bust.

And say we did barely make the playoffs. It would mean we had a better roster and less holes to fill than a bottom 5 team who trades back to get two players instead of one.

Plus, we have plenty of Cap space in the future. How much nicer would it be to be a wildcard team that still has ton on money to spend and their draftpicks, instead of a bottom 5 team with ton of holes and hard time recruiting free agents

If you think that there would have been some extreme difference in how free agents would think about the Bears if they lost like they currently are (competitive offense and zero defense) and winning a few games against bottom feeders and sneaking into the playoffs, you are sadly wrong.

Now if you wanted to say that the Bears, as a bottom 5 team, would lose a free agent player to a Buffalo Bills type team if the contract were the same, I would agree with you.

However, that Bears team that snuck into the playoffs would also lose out to a Buffalo Bills type team if the contract offered were the same.

In the end, the Bears are going to have to

 

[JoJoBoxer]

And they made no effort to have it play out differently. If you thought any of ESB, Pringle, Pettis, VJJ, or Harry were going to replace Robinson I have some snake oil to sell you.

They also made no meaningful effort to improve the OL this past off season.

Not shitting on you but, Robinson has a whole 29 receptions for 292 yards this year.

ESB (11 - 164), Pringle (3 - 45), Pettis (12 - 176), Venus (3 - 24) and Harry (4 - 44) have 4 more receptions and 161 more yards.

So, they did replace Robinson with better results, but still extremely shitty results.

Wow, I did not know how bad Robinson was doing.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

You make a decent point by looking at one season, but Id argue those teams are overall in better shape than bottom 5 teams and arent better off for losing now.

plus, as stated, the Bears are in a different position. They have a crazy amount of cap space next season and have a QB on a rookie deal. If we needed a QB I could sympathize more. But as it is, I think building a winning culture is a step in the right direction.

How good were those wins at the end of seasons during the Lovie years, especially when Urlacher was injured while playing the meaningless last game of the season?

Where the good feelings of winning a meaningless last game more impactful than the injury to Urlacher the following year?

 

[JoJoBoxer]

Maybe so, but I think it is more likely a team becomes superbowl contenders if you could say yes to both of those questions AND coming off making the playoffs.

No, making the playoffs has nothing to do with future success.

Imagine that THIS Bears team with THESE players somehow make the playoffs with a Lions win, Viking sitting everyone and the Aaron Rodgers going crazy and purposefully throwing pick-6s during the Bears game because he felt slighted by the Packers. Then they get their asses handed to them in the playoff game.

THIS Bears team still had THESE players. Lucking into the playoffs and getting spanked around did not make any of these players any better.

So, when free agency comes along, the Bears have the same base of crappy players they did in 2022 and can only improve by what they do in free agency, the draft and how much players improved during the offseason (as an example, Braxton Jones building up his strength).

This is not some Japanese video game where the playoff appearance will give the players a magic powerup that makes them a level better.

Like it was recently posted, the Bears backing into the playoffs in 2020 did not make any of the players better in 2021.

 

[JoJoBoxer]

I’m not sure how you can make a statement that this staff is sold on Fields being their QB. Have I missed some press conference that they said this in?

We can speculate all we want. The fact is, when a team does nothing but lose, then every, and I mean every player, is evaluated in their total game.

None of us know that when they are reviewing the game film if the staff tells Field's he missed this particular play, even though one group of fans says, that’s on the online, while another says well that’s on the receivers.

As the season goes on, and the loses pule up, and play gets uglier by all players, it will influence evaluation on all players, you can book on that.

I can assure you that the Bears would get a much higher ransom if they traded Fields than if they had the #1 pick and traded it for draft capital.

Yes, they will evaluate Fields. It should take less than five minutes to do that. It will start with "Fields needs to work on getting the ball out sooner but ...", then will come 4 minutes and 50 seconds talking about all of the good things he has done, he can do, and he will be able to do.

 

[MDB111™]

I didn't think it was a great take because we were never getting to the playoffs but it's not a bad plan. The Bears need to see who the ballers are and they especially need to see if VJJ belongs.

He belongs in the XFL

 

[bamainatlanta]

Simply put, playoff teams are better than nonplayoff teams. But the point I am making is the Bears making the playoffs this season would not mean they’re closer to a super bowl. It would, in fact, be the worst thing for them.

Correct. Would rather not have some BS lucky type of season where every bounce & call went the Bears way.

 

[Chicago4Life]

I'm saying that before the Lioms game our playoff chances were still alive, albeit slim, and therefore winning in the short term took precedence. You play the best players and approach the game with the strategy that give you the best chance to win.

Now that our playoff chances are officially 1% you prioritize long term development over winning. You make decisions that are best for the longterm growth of your team. Winning still has some importance, but not the utmost. You still are not trying to actively tank.

Priorities:
1. Youth development and evaluation
2. Build player chemistry.
3. Experimentation of different plays/strategies to use next season.
4. Winning
5. Tanking for draft position.

you can try and rationalize this all you want but bottom line is flus believes in his method...yes 1% chance of making the playoffs but not mathematically eliminated...I could see flus change his tune once mathematically eliminated...what could also change is how well these kids are practicing, flus talks about consistency, knowing the scheme, impact plays...how are these kids showing these things in practice? Nagy was always one to play vets over rookies even if the rookies were better, flus has shown he is willing to play rookies if they have the talent, consistency, impact he's looking for...out of these young guys, who has shown that?

getsy and flus both called out velus for lack of consistency in practice, do you think game reps is going to gain him consistency? he may gain confidence if things go his way or his confidence could fall off a cliff because he continues to make mistakes...confidence is a tricky thing, some players never fully recover after they lose it, and some persevere through it...no problem letting velus gain consistency in practice before letting him translate that to the field.

as for the lb's you mentioned, weatherford may get snaps towards the end of the season once mathematically eliminated but lets not get crazy and think weatherford is going to be a future starter at LB, he's needs plenty of work not just in the gym but on his game in general. Giving him some live reps may help accelerate but the drop off from thomas/morrow/sanborn is massive...not sure why you mention klein, he is a special teamer only unless i missed something.

 

[vabearsfan15]

If you think that there would have been some extreme difference in how free agents would think about the Bears if they lost like they currently are (competitive offense and zero defense) and winning a few games against bottom feeders and sneaking into the playoffs, you are sadly wrong.

Now if you wanted to say that the Bears, as a bottom 5 team, would lose a free agent player to a Buffalo Bills type team if the contract were the same, I would agree with you.

However, that Bears team that snuck into the playoffs would also lose out to a Buffalo Bills type team if the contract offered were the same.

In the end, the Bears are going to have to
View attachment 24024

Recruiting free agents was only a very small benefit of being a playoff team. The primary benefit is that more of the unknowns and rookies on your roster likely played well and adequately proved themselves to be NFL starters.

But to your point, there are 30 other teams aside from the cap strapped Bills that we would be competing for for Free Agents. I'd rather not be the Jaguars, a bottom 5 team, who had to overpay for mediocre free agents.

 

[vabearsfan15]

Not shitting on you but, Robinson has a whole 29 receptions for 292 yards this year.

ESB (11 - 164), Pringle (3 - 45), Pettis (12 - 176), Venus (3 - 24) and Harry (4 - 44) have 4 more receptions and 161 more yards.

So, they did replace Robinson with better results, but still extremely shitty results.

Wow, I did not know how bad Robinson was doing.

Not the best argument considering you had to use 5 players to try and replace 1 and none of them have 200 yards receiving 10 games into the season.

Kupp just got hurt too and Stafford can't glue on to his favorite target anymore. I wouldn't be surprised of ARob has some good performances coming up

 

[vabearsfan15]

How good were those wins at the end of seasons during the Lovie years, especially when Urlacher was injured while playing the meaningless last game of the season?

Where the good feelings of winning a meaningless last game more impactful than the injury to Urlacher the following year?

The 16th/17th week of the season is much different than the 10th and 11th. Fates are mathematically determined. Sure, at that point winning takes an even less priority. Purposely losing at that point is acceptable in those weeks to me. Before then though, there are other objectives that take priority.

 

[vabearsfan15]

No, making the playoffs has nothing to do with future success.

Imagine that THIS Bears team with THESE players somehow make the playoffs with a Lions win, Viking sitting everyone and the Aaron Rodgers going crazy and purposefully throwing pick-6s during the Bears game because he felt slighted by the Packers. Then they get their asses handed to them in the playoff game.

THIS Bears team still had THESE players. Lucking into the playoffs and getting spanked around did not make any of these players any better.

So, when free agency comes along, the Bears have the same base of crappy players they did in 2022 and can only improve by what they do in free agency, the draft and how much players improved during the offseason (as an example, Braxton Jones building up his strength).

This is not some Japanese video game where the playoff appearance will give the players a magic powerup that makes them a level better.

Like it was recently posted, the Bears backing into the playoffs in 2020 did not make any of the players better in 2021.

Going into the season, alot of our players weren't entirely known as crappy players, buy moreso inexperienced young players.

Making the playoffs means some of these guys played well, made winning plays, and proved them to be capable NFL starters.

Losing, as we have done, has led to yours and many other's assessment that we suck. Which is understandable because we are 3-7.

The 2020 Bears were much different. Those guys underperformed. We had veteran defensive players who were not performing the their contracts. We did not have 50+ mil dedicated to dead cap. We didn't have a bunch of young inexperienced players. We had guys who were paid well, but were underperforming to expectations. That is why it was dissappinting.

 

[mecha]

How good were those wins at the end of seasons during the Lovie years, especially when Urlacher was injured while playing the meaningless last game of the season?

Where the good feelings of winning a meaningless last game more impactful than the injury to Urlacher the following year?

2011 was bad.

 

[vabearsfan15]

you can try and rationalize this all you want but bottom line is flus believes in his method...yes 1% chance of making the playoffs but not mathematically eliminated...I could see flus change his tune once mathematically eliminated...what could also change is how well these kids are practicing, flus talks about consistency, knowing the scheme, impact plays...how are these kids showing these things in practice? Nagy was always one to play vets over rookies even if the rookies were better, flus has shown he is willing to play rookies if they have the talent, consistency, impact he's looking for...out of these young guys, who has shown that?

getsy and flus both called out velus for lack of consistency in practice, do you think game reps is going to gain him consistency? he may gain confidence if things go his way or his confidence could fall off a cliff because he continues to make mistakes...confidence is a tricky thing, some players never fully recover after they lose it, and some persevere through it...no problem letting velus gain consistency in practice before letting him translate that to the field.

as for the lb's you mentioned, weatherford may get snaps towards the end of the season once mathematically eliminated but lets not get crazy and think weatherford is going to be a future starter at LB, he's needs plenty of work not just in the gym but on his game in general. Giving him some live reps may help accelerate but the drop off from thomas/morrow/sanborn is massive...not sure why you mention klein, he is a special teamer only unless i missed something.

I agree with Flus's approach and in his decision to do what's best to build a foundation and winning culture to the practice field and in preparation.

And maybe I'm a week or two early until we are actually mathematically eliminated.

If VJJ never gets his confidence, it is what it is. But he is 25 and needs actual game reps. If the remaining games have no postseason implications, then what are we doing giving ESB and Pettis targets? The games VJJ has played in, the few times he touched the ball he looked like the most explosive playmaker we had. Who cares if he screws up.

The staff has already proved they get their feelings hurt with the whole Tevin Jenkins debacle and then proceeding to rotate him in and out.

The fact Sanborn has come in and looked miles better than Morrow, Thomas or whomever else they put at LB is telling to me. I dont thinknthe drop-off could be much more if any at all from practice squad guys.