Luol Deng or Toni Kukoc who was better?

[scottiepippen1994]

I am sure I know more on the subject than you do...because I know someone who played ball with both of them. That said, I think you need to grow up a little bit and realize your heroes are human, and maybe that might get angry and upset with each other and even want to get away from each other. Pippen was extremely selfish that season. He had all summer to get the surgery needed and he didn't in protest.

You should stop looking at the Bulls as "Scottie Pippen and his Amazing Friends" and maybe look at them as people...regular people. Just a thought.

By the way, I said that they pretty much said everything Smith said, Smith just delved deeper into the team construct. Nobody disputes what Smith said...but you, and others who believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.

You mean the toothfairy and easterbunny arn't real???? What about Santa Clause???Please don't tell me.......



"Scottie Pippen and his Amazing Friends" would be a good title for a PBS morning kids show, or even a D.C comic book.. LoL I think..

 

[Glide2keva]

why you feel you need to go off sam smith's word is beyond me. it suggest that you're a mindless sheep. i'd be more inclined to believe it if it has multiple sources, as with any story.

bingo!!!

 

[scottiepippen1994]

bingo!!!

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DWuNU8k_SXI]‪A Christmas Story: Ho Ho Ho‬‏ - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Deng Defense Force]

For THIS Bulls team, id choose Deng.

And yet you vote for Kukoc.

"Kukoc, for sure" brm31

Someone doesn't seem to understand what for sure means.

 

[97Bulls]

I am sure I know more on the subject than you do...because I know someone who played ball with both of them.
Sure you do.
That said, I think you need to grow up a little bit and realize your heroes are human, and maybe that might get angry and upset with each other and even want to get away from each other. Pippen was extremely selfish that season. He had all summer to get the surgery needed and he didn't in protest.

You should stop looking at the Bulls as "Scottie Pippen and his Amazing Friends" and maybe look at them as people...regular people. Just a thought.

By the way, I said that they pretty much said everything Smith said, Smith just delved deeper into the team construct. Nobody disputes what Smith said...but you, and others who believe in the tooth fairy and the Easter bunny.

I'm only contesting the implication that jordan left cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Everything else in smiths column I've heard from other places.

You said it was in that vid you posted. Well where is it? Don't dance around the questiion. Where is part where any of the people interviewed say jordan retired cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Or even something along the lines of "jordan was fed up with pippen". You said its in there where?

 

[97Bulls]

bingo!!!

Lol

 

[scottiepippen1994]

I'm only contesting the implication that jordan left cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Everything else in smiths column I've heard from other places.

You said it was in that vid you posted. Well where is it? Don't dance around the questiion. Where is part where any of the people interviewed say jordan retired cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Or even something along the lines of "jordan was fed up with pippen". You said its in there where?

BINGO x 2
Trust me bro, Its not there..doesn't exist..Hue will have an endless job trying to find a quote of Jordan saying he retired cause of Pip or anyone else on the team...
Jordan called Pippen his mvp and even offered him a car when he received his 96 finals mvp award...Purhaps Pippen stepping out of his shadow for almost 2 seasons and keeping a team together was a big influence in Jordan returning to basketball....That and the MLB lockout of course...:woot:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

what the hell is going on here?

im confused..

maybe its because im a Special person polar bear

 

[Glide2keva]

BINGO x 2
Trust me bro, Its not there..doesn't exist..Hue will have an endless job trying to find a quote of Jordan saying he retired cause of Pip or anyone else on the team...
Jordan called Pippen his mvp and even offered him a car when he received his 96 finals mvp award...Purhaps Pippen stepping out of his shadow for almost 2 seasons and keeping a team together was a big influence in Jordan returning to basketball....That and the MLB lockout of course...:woot:

Well people forget that Jordan injured his finger on his shooting hand during the lockout also. He cut it using a cigar cutter. I always thought it was suspicious, but that was the story going around then.

 

[houheffna]

I'm only contesting the implication that jordan left cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Everything else in smiths column I've heard from other places.

You said it was in that vid you posted. Well where is it? Don't dance around the questiion. Where is part where any of the people interviewed say jordan retired cuz he didn't want to play with pippen and rodman. Or even something along the lines of "jordan was fed up with pippen". You said its in there where?

I said Smith delved deeper and the video supports the article. Its funny that the only part of Smith's article you disagree with is the Pippen/Rodman stuff. Again, that's sad.

I also noticed that the guy that used to work at the stadium selling popcorn put his two cent in. Like I said, believe what you want...

The mindless sheep believe exactly what you believe, it was all about Krause...that was absolutely not the case. It wasn't black and white, good vs. evil. It was about Jordan being tired...he didn't deal with Krause, he just bullied him. Krause wasn't Jordan's boss in that organization. Jordan dealt with one man...Reinsdorf. It had been like that for 10 years...

And yes, Jordan was angry with Pippen! It wasn't the first time. You don't think Jordan was angry with Pippen in 1990 with the migraine? Of course he was....Jordan practically MADE Pippen play! Now in the biggest game of the season, where was Pippen? In the lockerroom hurt...what was Rodman doing, flopping all over the place and acting a damn fool with Malone. Of course Jordan was tired of it...who wouldn't be?

I dodged no questions...which can't be said for you...who still haven't told me exactly when Rodman was a top 5 player in the league.

 

[97Bulls]

I said Smith delved deeper and the video supports the article. Its funny that the only part of Smith's article you disagree with is the Pippen/Rodman stuff. Again, that's sad.
I agree cuz I've heard it from multiple sources. I never heard that jordan retired cuz he didn't want to play with pippen.
I also noticed that the guy that used to work at the stadium selling popcorn put his two cent in. Like I said, believe what you want...

The mindless sheep believe exactly what you believe, it was all about Krause...that was absolutely not the case. It wasn't black and white, good vs. evil. It was about Jordan being tired...he didn't deal with Krause, he just bullied him. Krause wasn't Jordan's boss in that organization. Jordan dealt with one man...Reinsdorf. It had been like that for 10 years...
No the krause being at fault theme is the general understanding. We all saw it play out in the media. Krause with his "teams don't win championships organizations do" BS. Then jordan replid by telling him to bring his fat ass down here and play or something to that effect. Both pippen and jordan were mad that thanks to krause, kukoc was making more money than they were and thus really put it on kukoc in the olympics. Grant left on bad terms, scott williams left on bad terms. Phil jackson said he was offered a contract but he knew krause didn't want him there. Brian williams refused to resin cuz of the money he got for the championship, It was krauses fault. All these players jordan, pippen, jackson, grant, b williams s.williams, all left left cuz they had a problem with krause.

And yes, Jordan was angry with Pippen! It wasn't the first time. You don't think Jordan was angry with Pippen in 1990 with the migraine? Of course he was....Jordan practically MADE Pippen play! Now in the biggest game of the season, where was Pippen? In the lockerroom hurt...what was Rodman doing, flopping all over the place and acting a damn fool with Malone. Of course Jordan was tired of it...who wouldn't be?
Get the **** outta here with that stupid shit. Pippen hurt his back. He could barely walk. I've had a back injury before, I was in bed for 2 weeks. There is no documented proof that jordan was mad at pippen cuz he was playing injured. And your dumb if you believe that.

As far at the migrane incident, pippens father had recently died. He was dealing with a death. Your a sick individual if you can't see that. You wanna talk about quiting? Jordan retired largely cuz he had to deal with the death of his father. Come on

I dodged no questions...which can't be said for you...who still haven't told me exactly when Rodman was a top 5 player in the league.

And I'm not dodging any questions bro. I said rodman hurt his case not due to his play on the court but cuz he was a head case. So no, he was never a top 5 player in the league. But the difference is that when you say "top 5" that's a rank. That has nothing to do with who's "better". When you ask who's better, I try to think about their attributes. Barkley was an amzing scorer and rebounder. But he had a terrible work ethic and was a losy defender. By his own admonition. The man said as long as larry bird is in the league, he won't be the worse defender. WTF?! He admitted he was a bad defender and obviously didn't care.

Rodman is arguably the greatest defender EVER. He is arguably the greatets rebounder EVER. Phil jackson said he was the greatest athlete he's ever seen. What hurt him was that he was a headcase. The man dressed in drag and married himself. That's why he wasn't ranked higher.

I remember when barkley was in houston he challenged rodman rebounding by saying since he didn't have to score he could concentrate on rebounding. Obviously forgetting the defenseive side of the ball (typcal chuck). And said that now that he could concentrate on just reboundong he would get the rebounding title. He lost to rodman.

I would not take charles barkley with that kind of an attitude on my team if my goal was to win.

Now ianswered your question in depth. Now please show me in that clip that ypu posted, where is there any mention that jordan retired cuz he was mad at pippen and rodman. Or that he refused to play with pippen and rodman.

 

[BMR31]

And yet you vote for Kukoc.

"Kukoc, for sure" brm31

Someone doesn't seem to understand what for sure means.

Dont worry, i never expect you to think beyond the 85-87 iq level......

 

[Glide2keva]

And I'm not dodging any questions bro. I said Rodman hurt his case not due to his play on the court but cuz he was a head case. So no, he was never a top 5 player in the league. But the difference is that when you say "top 5" that's a rank. That has nothing to do with who's "better". When you ask who's better, I try to think about their attributes. Barkley was an amazing scorer and rebounder. But he had a terrible work ethic and was a lousy defender. By his own admonition. The man said as long as Larry bird is in the league, he won't be the worse defender. WTF?! He admitted he was a bad defender and obviously didn't care.

Rodman is arguably the greatest defender EVER. He is arguably the greatest rebounder EVER. Phil Jackson said he was the greatest athlete he's ever seen. What hurt him was that he was a headcase. The man dressed in drag and married himself. That's why he wasn't ranked higher.

I remember when Barkley was in Houston he challenged Rodman rebounding by saying since he didn't have to score he could concentrate on rebounding. Obviously forgetting the defensive side of the ball (typical chuck). And said that now that he could concentrate on just rebounding he would get the rebounding title. He lost to Rodman.

I would not take Charles Barkley with that kind of an attitude on my team if my goal was to win.

Now I answered your question in depth. Now please show me in that clip that you posted, where is there any mention that Jordan retired cuz he was mad at Pippen and Rodman. Or that he refused to play with Pippen and Rodman.

Don't worry, he won't. :support: and he can :gtfo:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

does anyone else think that BMR,deng,and sp are all made by the same person?

he could have used a proxy

 

[BMR31]

does anyone else think that BMR,deng,and sp are all made by the same person?

he could have used a proxy

SP has several screens, but NO, i am not one of those.......

 

[icehogfan08]

does anyone else think that BMR,deng,and sp are all made by the same person?

he could have used a proxy

:yep: One of them have multiple personalities

 

[BMR31]

:yep: One of them have multiple personalities

bingo :d

 

[Deng Defense Force]

Dont worry, i never expect you to think beyond the 85-87 iq level......

The combined IQ of all of your screenames perhaps?

 

[Deng Defense Force]

bingo :d

So you admit it?

 

[houheffna]

And I'm not dodging any questions bro. I said rodman hurt his case not due to his play on the court but cuz he was a head case. So no, he was never a top 5 player in the league. But the difference is that when you say "top 5" that's a rank. That has nothing to do with who's "better". When you ask who's better, I try to think about their attributes. Barkley was an amzing scorer and rebounder. But he had a terrible work ethic and was a losy defender. By his own admonition. The man said as long as larry bird is in the league, he won't be the worse defender. WTF?! He admitted he was a bad defender and obviously didn't care.

Rodman is arguably the greatest defender EVER. He is arguably the greatets rebounder EVER. Phil jackson said he was the greatest athlete he's ever seen. What hurt him was that he was a headcase. The man dressed in drag and married himself. That's why he wasn't ranked higher.

I remember when barkley was in houston he challenged rodman rebounding by saying since he didn't have to score he could concentrate on rebounding. Obviously forgetting the defenseive side of the ball (typcal chuck). And said that now that he could concentrate on just reboundong he would get the rebounding title. He lost to rodman.

I would not take charles barkley with that kind of an attitude on my team if my goal was to win.

Now ianswered your question in depth. Now please show me in that clip that ypu posted, where is there any mention that jordan retired cuz he was mad at pippen and rodman. Or that he refused to play with pippen and rodman.

Right, Rodman's off the court antics stopped his being acknolwedged, but Barkley throwing people through windows and spitting on kids somehow gets ignored? I don't think so...unlike you, people grade players by how they play, not by the uniform. Again, grow the **** up...these are not superheroes, and not everybody looked at them as such.

Rodman practically stopped playing defense himself...notice that he got no all-league mentions after the 1996 season. You going to blame that on Rodman's off the court antics also? When Jackson said that about Rodman, he was talking about conditioning and his never getting tired. Now ask Phil if that was his greatest player...let me know the answer, then ask Phil why he benched Rodman in the playoffs.

Back to Pippen, its not about whether I cared, its that Jordan didn't care, and at the time, neither did a lot of the fans. Pippen himself stated that he felt fine that morning and looked forward to the game and then he had a headache, took aspirin and it got worse. I know about migraines, I have been in the hospital because of them...I have a feeling Jordan wanted to win that game. There was the bus ride after the loss where Jordan had to be consoled because amongst other things, Jordan felt Pippen had let him down two years straight. Both in game 7.

Pippen's father was sick for a while, he wasn't murdered and he died during the Philly series. MJ father's death was quite a bit different. Joe Dumars father was gravely ill at the same time and died during the Finals, Dumars went on to win Finals MVP. Pippen still doesn't know what set off that migraine, but he played very well during that playoff, so why do you blame his father's death weeks prior to a migraine?

You read any of the books written by Smith, Halberstam or Lazenby, Jordan at times questioned Pippen in the past. I don't know why any of this is news to a Bulls fan or a Pippen/Rodman fan, or whatever the hell you are...