Mashiro Tanaka Thread

[Flacco4Prez]

Is it on accident that they finished 2nd on Ryu, Darvish, Cespedes,??? I think not. Cubs just wanted to make fans think they actually tried when clearly they had no intentions of getting them and having payroll go up. All that matters to Cubs is keepin payroll down so Ricketts can get out of debt cause he bought something he couldnt afford

When Cubs finish 2nd again on Tanaka you guys will say they did there best but i will know real reason

Cubs don't know where they stand until the posting is finalized. They very well thought they were in position to land all those guys at the time. I think now it is more important than ever that we go out and get an impact guy like Tanaka. The dude went 24-0 this season. I don't care where you pitch that's incredible. We need a guy like that in the rotation and someone to talk about heading into opening day other than the rest of the dismal team. Hopefully Olt steps in up in ST and gets the job to add a little buzz to the team heading into the season.

 

[dabynsky]

Is it on accident that they finished 2nd on Ryu, Darvish, Cespedes,??? I think not. Cubs just wanted to make fans think they actually tried when clearly they had no intentions of getting them and having payroll go up. All that matters to Cubs is keepin payroll down so Ricketts can get out of debt cause he bought something he couldnt afford

When Cubs finish 2nd again on Tanaka you guys will say they did there best but i will know real reason

The Cubs managed to finish second in blind bidding twice just to appease fans?

 

[SilenceS]

The Cubs managed to finish second in blind bidding twice just to appease fans?

Im not agreeing with him, but blind bidding I find is a loose term in these types of instances. Teams have a ballpark of what other teams are willing to go. May not be exact, but they usual have a feel of what it will take to get it done.

 

[dabynsky]

Im not agreeing with him, but blind bidding I find is a loose term in these types of instances. Teams have a ballpark of what other teams are willing to go. May not be exact, but they usual have a feel of what it will take to get it done.

If that was true why did the Rangers overbid the Cubs by at least 20 million according to most sources if they had a ballpark figure for what it would take?

 

[Flacco4Prez]

I remember when the Dodgers got Puig how people were saying it was way too much money because the Cubs got Soler for only $30 million. I guess only time would tell but it's hard not to think what could have been. I'm tired of doing that as a Cubs fan.

 

[SilenceS]

If that was true why did the Rangers overbid the Cubs by at least 20 million according to most sources if they had a ballpark figure for what it would take?

Source that because the only source I am finding is the Rangers doubled the Yankees bid which was around 20 something million. No team is going in there not having some form of knowledge what it will be like to get done. The Rangers wanted him and took no chances. They valued him higher than other teams. To many teams talk to each other for it to be this ultra secret society of bids.

 

[SilenceS]

Nvm, I found stuff but I have seen conflicting reports. Well, the Cubs Rangers and Yanks were all in the same ballpark. The Rangers weren't. Seems they shot there load. I still stick to teams have an idea of what teams are willing to go.

 

[CSF77]

I remember when the Dodgers got Puig how people were saying it was way too much money because the Cubs got Soler for only $30 million. I guess only time would tell but it's hard not to think what could have been. I'm tired of doing that as a Cubs fan.

Concidering Soler is hitting under .200 in the AFL I'm kinda concerned with him.

 

[CSF77]

Quote Originally Posted by daddies3angels View Post
Is it on accident that they finished 2nd on Ryu, Darvish, Cespedes,??? I think not. Cubs just wanted to make fans think they actually tried when clearly they had no intentions of getting them and having payroll go up. All that matters to Cubs is keepin payroll down so Ricketts can get out of debt cause he bought something he couldnt afford

When Cubs finish 2nd again on Tanaka you guys will say they did there best but i will know real reason
The Cubs managed to finish second in blind bidding twice just to appease fans?

Theo won this process before. He probley knew what it would take to win but had a spending limit set by Tom. It was a token offering.

 

[Flacco4Prez]

Concidering Soler is hitting under .200 in the AFL I'm kinda concerned with him.

I wouldn't be. Didn't the AFL start last week? He's been injured the past season so I wouldn't worry about this small of a sample (good or bad).

 

[daddies3angels]

Concidering Soler is hitting under .200 in the AFL I'm kinda concerned with him.

He has 21 AB lol. If he has a couple of 2 hit days then he be over .250. Very SSS

 

[The Bandit]

Is it on accident that they finished 2nd on Ryu, Darvish, Cespedes,??? I think not. Cubs just wanted to make fans think they actually tried when clearly they had no intentions of getting them and having payroll go up. All that matters to Cubs is keepin payroll down so Ricketts can get out of debt cause he bought something he couldnt afford

When Cubs finish 2nd again on Tanaka you guys will say they did there best but i will know real reason

We've been over this... it's blind bidding. And Darvish was a huge blown wad of over 20 million extra dollars American by the Rangers, and you didn't mention him which I am surprised by, but Puig at the time of the signing was viewed as a big over spend by the Dodgers. You just love conspiracy theories that label Ricketts as not willing to spend. Blind bidding is blind bidding, and no amount of "having an idea of what the other guy is going to spend" is going to nail what you offer in a coffin. It's a poker game.

 

[Boobaby1]

We've been over this... it's blind bidding. And Darvish was a huge blown wad of over 20 million extra dollars American by the Rangers, and you didn't mention him which I am surprised by, but Puig at the time of the signing was viewed as a big over spend by the Dodgers. You just love conspiracy theories that label Ricketts as not willing to spend. Blind bidding is blind bidding, and no amount of "having an idea of what the other guy is going to spend" is going to nail what you offer in a coffin. It's a poker game.

It's about time for the Cubs to ante-up then.

Aside from Soriano (he being the most coveted free agent at the time) and Soler, the Cubs have NEVER been the top dog in anything.

 

[CSF77]

It's about time for the Cubs to ante-up then.

Aside from Soriano (he being the most coveted free agent at the time) and Soler, the Cubs have NEVER been the top dog in anything.

IDK if Tanaka is a legit ace though. His stuff screams #2. I just don't see him matching up with Wainwright or Kershaw in 4 years.

 

[CSF77]

Name--------------------2014 Projected (Fangraphs)

---------------------FIP---WHIP---BABIP---K%------BB%
Masahiro Tanaka.....No projections yet
Ervin Santana.......3.87...1.28....298...17.7%...7.1%
Matt Garza..........3.96...1.26....296...19.5%...7.2%
Hiroki Kuroda.......3.63...1.23....302...17.8%...5.8%
A.J. Burnett........3.20...1.24....305...22.6%...8.4%
Josh Johnson........3.72...1.31....307...21.4%...8.4%
Tim Lincecum........3.44...1.27....301...22.6%...9.3%
Ubaldo Jimenez......3.92...1.37....304...21.8%..10.3%
Ricky Nolasco.......3.61...1.20....296...17.9%...5.6%
Bartolo Colon.......3.80...1.23....301...15.4%...4.5%
Bronson Arroyo......4.27...1.29....300...14.6%...4.9%
Scott Kazmir........3.75...1.28....304...22.6%..10.2%
Scott Baker.........4.31...1.30....294...16.9%...6.8%
------------------------------------------------------
Travis Wood.........4.57...1.34....291...17.7%...8.1%
Jeff Smardzija......3.51...1.25....298...23.2%...9.0%
Jake Arrieta........4.05...1.37....298...19.8%..10.3%
Edwin Jackson.......3.69...1.30....303...18.6%...7.7%

 

[CSF77]

Scott Kazmir........3.75...1.28....304...22.6%..10.2%

2013:

29 Games 158.0 IP AVG: 5.5 innings per game. Low side. 2.7 BB/9 9.2 SO/9. He was gassing out early. 162 Hits in 158 IP is about where you would want him.

So every thing looks good except of his IP per game. That is a red flag to me but with Grimm and Carlos V in the pen it is not like the BP can not handle some extra work load.

Maybe the best value and he is 29 YO. Not a bad pick up.

 

[JosMin]

I'm interested to see how Abreu's signing will impact the posting situation with Tanaka. I understand comparing a first baseman and a starting pitcher might be odd, but the fact that Cuban players can be had without worrying about the posting fee, it'll be interesting to see how teams hovering close to the luxury tax approach their bidding. It's been established that the posting fee doesn't count towards the tax, but if a team is inching close to it, they really won't be saving any money when you include the salary and posting fee.

When you look at inflation, I could see Tanaka getting a deal somewhere between what Darvish (6 years, $54 million plus positing) and Abreu (6 years, $68 million). Darvish has exceeded expectations and is in line for a massive raise when it's all said and done. If the Cubs were interested, I'd like to see how much they'd truly be willing to throw at an unproven arm. Is it worth giving up $100+ million for a guy who doesn't project to be an ace? At that point, you really have to establish salary value when the Cubs have many other starters under control. It's a matter of signing a guy like this versus somebody like Ervin Santana who could be had for less money when you throw in the posting fee.

Here's an article that discusses the topic:

http://www.pinstripedbible.com/yank...ahiro-tankas-international-free-agent-yankees

 

[Boobaby1]

I'm interested to see how Abreu's signing will impact the posting situation with Tanaka. I understand comparing a first baseman and a starting pitcher might be odd, but the fact that Cuban players can be had without worrying about the posting fee, it'll be interesting to see how teams hovering close to the luxury tax approach their bidding. It's been established that the posting fee doesn't count towards the tax, but if a team is inching close to it, they really won't be saving any money when you include the salary and posting fee.

When you look at inflation, I could see Tanaka getting a deal somewhere between what Darvish (6 years, $54 million plus positing) and Abreu (6 years, $68 million). Darvish has exceeded expectations and is in line for a massive raise when it's all said and done. If the Cubs were interested, I'd like to see how much they'd truly be willing to throw at an unproven arm. Is it worth giving up $100+ million for a guy who doesn't project to be an ace? At that point, you really have to establish salary value when the Cubs have many other starters under control. It's a matter of signing a guy like this versus somebody like Ervin Santana who could be had for less money when you throw in the posting fee.

Here's an article that discusses the topic:

http://www.pinstripedbible.com/yank...ahiro-tankas-international-free-agent-yankees

It is worth it if you trust your scouting department. The Cubs are supposed to have a good scouting crew and they get paid to evaluate talent, and if they say he is worth the money, the Cubs then should act on it. Also factor in the teams that also want his services. That in itself is a clue.

 

[TL1961]

I don't know whether the Cubs will be a serious contender or not.

And I don't know where he compares to, say, a David Price.

But reading these threads, I see many people would give up Soler or Almora or others to get Price, who will then demand a fortune, but they don't expect the Cubs to go high $ on Tanaka.

Why give away people and save $?

Money is plentiful. Prospects are not.

 

[Boobaby1]

I don't know whether the Cubs will be a serious contender or not.

And I don't know where he compares to, say, a David Price.

But reading these threads, I see many people would give up Soler or Almora or others to get Price, who will then demand a fortune, but they don't expect the Cubs to go high $ on Tanaka.

Why give away people and save $?

Money is plentiful. Prospects are not.

Couldn't agree more. I am in the camp that I am tired of waiting for this slow boat to China to set sail. Selling off prospects to net an Ace is absolutely ludicrous IMO and does nothing but keep the boat in the dock even longer.

Every team in baseball seems to be able to net and develop an Ace in their organization. Are the Cubs unable to do this?

If the Cubs can't develop one or more of their own with the staff they have assembled, they need not be in baseball.

It's time to take a risk or two and open up the pocketbook.

Let's get Tanaka, Salty, Murphy or Morse to play the outfield, re-sign Baker, call it an off season and let the year play itself out with the young kids and go from there.

Castillo needs to be pushed to find out if he is really the answer or not as I am not sold on him yet. He is steady, but there may a better option out there. At worst, the Cubs have flexibility to dump one at the break. opcorn: