Mike Dunleavy Update

[The Hawk]

That was really an interesting table you showed and I loved that stat you put up about Hinrich. That really did bring some things to relevance to me. Hinrich playing that many minutes compared to Mirotic is fucking NUTS!

 

[clonetrooper264]

Too many white basketball players.

:snoop:

 

[clonetrooper264]

That was really an interesting table you showed and I loved that stat you put up about Hinrich. That really did bring some things to relevance to me. Hinrich playing that many minutes compared to Mirotic is fucking NUTS!

If people would just accept the fact that Hinrich is going to play whether you like it or not...it'd make things a lot easier to discuss

 

[The Hawk]

Hinrich has SUCKED this season more than he has ever in his entire career. The guy doesn't even belong playing 6 minutes a game. He sucks. Period. I caught shit weeks ago when I said that our guards were weak as a group. Well............ they are weaker because Hinrich is worse than ever.

 

[Axl Rose]

Too many white basketball players.

and its no surprise athleticism is a problem for this team

 

[clonetrooper264]

Hinrich has SUCKED this season more than he has ever in his entire career. The guy doesn't even belong playing 6 minutes a game. He sucks. Period. I caught shit weeks ago when I said that our guards were weak as a group. Well............ they are weaker because Hinrich is worse than ever.

It doesn't matter, he's going to play. GET OVER IT

 

[Bear Pride]

Honestly I think that if McDermott was healthy when Dunleavy went down we'd be pretty satisfied with McDermott. All preseason Doug was the 1st guy up to replace Dunleavy in the lineup. It's very possible he would've regained his confidence by playing 20 minutes in the starting SF role. Point is, guys have looked good when given minutes this year. It happened with Mirotic when he replaced Taj. It happened with Snell when he replaced Dunleavy and McDermott. It happened with Moore when Rose and Kirk were out. If Doug gets some consistent run, I think he'll start to improve just like everyone else on the roster has.

The thing is for me, McD's main asset he brings to the table is the Bulls biggest weakness. SHOOTING! We need to stop focusing on what he can't do on defense, and start focusing on what he can do..... SHOOT! Let him hang at the 3 pt line like Korver and drill some 3's. Then watch the floor spread out.

 

[Bear Pride]

It doesn't matter, he's going to play. GET OVER IT

Nah, I'll get over it when he plays less consistently, and Niko and McD play more. Both players were brought in to help our shooting and Thib's doesn't want to utilize either one of them optimally. There is something wrong with that. And I've been a huge Thib's and Kirk fan!

I don't even mind if Thib's would play Kirk at the end of a game for his veteran presence, but not instead of our two rookies not playing. The time has come for Kirk to sit in the backseat, imo.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Nah, I'll get over it when he plays less consistently, and Niko and McD play more. Both players were brought in to help our shooting and Thib's doesn't want to utilize either one of them optimally. There is something wrong with that. And I've been a huge Thib's and Kirk fan!

I don't even mind if Thib's would play Kirk at the end of a game for his veteran presence, but not instead of our two rookies not playing. The time has come for Kirk to sit in the backseat, imo.

You are going to be whining all season lol. Not a knock against you...just saying that Kirk is going to play more than anyone wants him to because that's just how it is. It's always been that way.

 

[Bear Pride]

You are going to be whining all season lol. Not a knock against you...just saying that Kirk is going to play more than anyone wants him to because that's just how it is. It's always been that way.

LOL, I guess it's gonna be a long season for you, cuz this homer wants to see some change. However, I suspect we'll see some change as I don't think things will magically be better if Thib's doesn't do things differently than he has been.

 

[clonetrooper264]

LOL, I guess it's gonna be a long season for you, cuz this homer wants to see some change. However, I suspect we'll see some change as I don't think things will magically be better if Thib's doesn't do things differently than he has been.

Eh...I've sat through trade demand after trade demand on this board. It's not going away. Much like Hinrich. I've accepted that so it doesn't bother me. I also happen to still have hope in this current roster, unlike quite a few it seems. I really do think Dunleavy coming back will help a lot. He's not the savior by any means...the team still has a lot of other things to fix, but he'll help with a few of them.

I agree with Thibs trying out some different strategies, but he's kind of stubborn so, again, I've kind of accepted that. He's surprised me a few times though so we'll see.

 

[Bear Pride]

Eh...I've sat through trade demand after trade demand on this board. It's not going away. Much like Hinrich. I've accepted that so it doesn't bother me. I also happen to still have hope in this current roster, unlike quite a few it seems. I really do think Dunleavy coming back will help a lot. He's not the savior by any means...the team still has a lot of other things to fix, but he'll help with a few of them.

I agree with Thibs trying out some different strategies, but he's kind of stubborn so, again, I've kind of accepted that. He's surprised me a few times though so we'll see.

It's not like I'm gonna commit Harry Carey over it, but my absolute loyalty towards Thib's is dwindling by every game. Let me clarify a few things..... I like the current roster as well. I was very high on it early on. I'm also not on the 'must trade' wagon.

As far as Kirk, I've loved him the past couple years, but I think he's done. I think the Bulls have better options. He's not the same player this year, imo, as I watch him play. He's actually worthless on defense as well. Thib's is the one that needs to "get over it".

I sure hope Dunn can come back healthy. I didn't like the sound of his injury news that just came out. Thib's will probably overplay him when he does come back. I also think the criticism of Rose is dumb. Everyone wants Rose to dish the ball, but Thib's doesn't play any shooters with him.

I've been saying for Thib's to play Brooks and Rose together since the off season. I'd like to see Niko with them. Thib's needs to figure out how to rotate Pau, Taj, Noah, and Niko. He uses these guys incorrectly every game.

I'm really starting to believe that Thib's has no idea how to use his depth on offense, and he's frustrated cuz he doesn't have the same defensive roster he can go all Thib's with. We'll see alright, we'll see another early exit if Thib's doesn't figure it out.

Cuz right now, if he doesn't change what he's doing, I'm not sure we can beat the Cavs, Wizards, or ATL at this point, and we'll probably see one of them in the 1st round.

 

[clonetrooper264]

It's not like I'm gonna commit Harry Carey over it, but my absolute loyalty towards Thib's is dwindling by every game. Let me clarify a few things..... I like the current roster as well. I was very high on it early on. I'm also not on the 'must trade' wagon.

As far as Kirk, I've loved him the past couple years, but I think he's done. I think the Bulls have better options. He's not the same player this year, imo, as I watch him play. He's actually worthless on defense as well. Thib's is the one that needs to "get over it".

I sure hope Dunn can come back healthy. I didn't like the sound of his injury news that just came out. Thib's will probably overplay him when he does come back. I also think the criticism of Rose is dumb. Everyone wants Rose to dish the ball, but Thib's doesn't play any shooters with him.

I've been saying for Thib's to play Brooks and Rose together since the off season. I'd like to see Niko with them. Thib's needs to figure out how to rotate Pau, Taj, Noah, and Niko. He uses these guys incorrectly every game.

I'm really starting to believe that Thib's has no idea how to use his depth on offense, and he's frustrated cuz he doesn't have the same defensive roster he can go all Thib's with. We'll see alright, we'll see another early exit if Thib's doesn't figure it out.

Cuz right now, if he doesn't change what he's doing, I'm not sure we can beat the Cavs, Wizards, or ATL at this point, and we'll probably see one of them in the 1st round.

I'll say this about Kirk: if Thibs suddenly decided to give all of Hinrich's minutes to Brooks and Snell or whoever. I wouldn't bat an eyelash. This has undeniably been Hinrich's worst season yet. It's not really surprising considering that he's 34 and definitely on the downside of his career. I do think that by the end of the season, Hinrich's numbers will look better. February, especially after the break, is when he starts to heat up typically so while he's been less than desirable offensively (this is everyone's beef with him really...), it'll even itself out. We've seen this before...he'll have a stretch where he'll shoot like 42% from 3 for a month or so. His minutes will be more justified then. It's simple law of averages. Last year he shot 32% in January (from 3), 39% in February and 43% in March. He closed last season averaging like 10ppg and 39% shooting from 3. It's been like this his whole career. Point is, he'll play better.

I do think Thibs should use Niko more. I think he could even stand to use Taj more. Imo he's relying too much on Gasol to carry the bench unit. He doesn't have to. Brooks, Taj, and Niko could carry the load for the bench. We've seen him venture away from that bench mob type of rotation he used at the very beginning of the year. Part of that has been the injuries to Dunleavy and McDermott, but I think if he goes back towards that, it may help everyone out if he's not going to stagger Noah and Pau's minutes.

 

[The Hawk]

and its no surprise athleticism is a problem for this team

On the other side of the coin..... Too many black guys who can't shoot worth a crap.

 

[Diddy1122]

I agree. I'm tired of Thib's and his rookie bullshit. McD was drafted #10. Most normal coaches will give their 1st round picks some minutes. Thib's and his 'veteran defensive rotation' is tired and old.

At some point, you have to look at his body of work, and right now, it's a lot of injuries and early playoff exits. Just look at the rookie minutes up until this point.

Keep in mind that McD, drafted #10, and was the #1 College scorer in the nation, and many say that Mirotic would have been drafted as high as #4, and had 7 years of professional experience in Europe:

Minutes Per Game Leaders - Qualified Rookies
RK	PLAYER	TEAM	GP	MPG
1	Andrew Wiggins, SF	MIN	48	34
2	Nerlens Noel, C	PHI	45	30.1
3	Jabari Parker, SF	MIL	25	29.5
4	Elfrid Payton, PG	ORL	51	27.4
5	K.J. McDaniels, SG	PHI	48	25.9
6	Zach LaVine, PG	MIN	43	22.9
7	Bojan Bogdanovic, SG	BKN	46	22.7
8	Marcus Smart, PG	BOS	32	22.7
9	Shabazz Napier, PG	MIA	36	20.7
10	Dante Exum, SG	UTAH	47	19.8
11	Kostas Papanikolaou, SF	HOU	37	19.8
12	Joe Ingles, SF	UTAH	47	19.7
13	Jerami Grant, SF	PHI	34	18.7
14	Rodney Hood, SG	UTAH	24	18.3
15	Nikola Mirotic, PF	CHI	49	17.7
16	Aaron Gordon, PF	ORL	19	16.8
17	Jusuf Nurkic, C	DEN	36	16.5
18	Jordan Clarkson, PG	LAL	26	16.4
19	Damjan Rudez, SF	IND	38	16.3
20	Tarik Black, PF	HOU/LAL	34	16
21	James Ennis, SF	MIA	40	14.8
22	P.J. Hairston, SG	CHA	34	14.7
23	Nik Stauskas, SG	SAC	44	14.1
24	Gary Harris, SG	DEN	22	12.9
25	Travis Wear, SF	NY	37	12.6
26	Kyle Anderson, SF	SA	27	12.6
27	JaKarr Sampson, SG	PHI	43	12.3
28	Johnny O'Bryant III, PF	MIL	21	12.2
29	Furkan Aldemir, PF	PHI	19	11
30	Joe Harris, SG	CLE	36	10.8
31	Nick Johnson, SG	HOU	17	10.7
32	Cory Jefferson, PF	BKN	24	10.6
33	Doug McDermott, SF	CHI	19	10.5
34	Dwight Powell, PF	BOS/DAL	20	8.3
35	Glenn Robinson III, SG	MIN	23	4.1

Meanwhile, Kirk would be 5th on this list with a stat line of (WTF Thib's):

GP	MIN/G	PPG	REB/G	AST/G	FG %
42	27.2	6.7	1.9	2.5	37.0

Every player listed on there, with the exception of Houston & Miami, none of those teams are in the playoff picture, let alone considered a top team in the league. McDermott got his time at the beginning of the year. Hell he even started a few games. The problem was he wasn't effective at anything. He overplayed on defense. He overthought on offense. And the one thing we thought we could count on him for, his shooting, was abysmal. All of these reasons are why he fell in the rotation. Then he had knee surgery. He has barely practiced & everyone on here wants him in the starting lineup and playing 25+ mpg. How is any of that logical? How does that really help the team? The short answer is it doesn't, at least not right now.

And please for the love of God stop it with this "Thibs doesn't play rookies" crap. Mirotic has played plenty so far. Doug was 1st off the bench at the beginning of the year, & Asik was a major rotation player in the ECF his first year. Just because Thibs chooses to develope the players throughout the season, gradually building their confidence & comfortability within the system does not mean he's adverse to rookies or hates them. So guys, please give it a rest already because its a losing argument.

 

[Bear Pride]

I'll say this about Kirk: if Thibs suddenly decided to give all of Hinrich's minutes to Brooks and Snell or whoever. I wouldn't bat an eyelash. This has undeniably been Hinrich's worst season yet. It's not really surprising considering that he's 34 and definitely on the downside of his career. I do think that by the end of the season, Hinrich's numbers will look better. February, especially after the break, is when he starts to heat up typically so while he's been less than desirable offensively (this is everyone's beef with him really...), it'll even itself out. We've seen this before...he'll have a stretch where he'll shoot like 42% from 3 for a month or so. His minutes will be more justified then. It's simple law of averages. Last year he shot 32% in January (from 3), 39% in February and 43% in March. He closed last season averaging like 10ppg and 39% shooting from 3. It's been like this his whole career. Point is, he'll play better.

I do think Thibs should use Niko more. I think he could even stand to use Taj more. Imo he's relying too much on Gasol to carry the bench unit. He doesn't have to. Brooks, Taj, and Niko could carry the load for the bench. We've seen him venture away from that bench mob type of rotation he used at the very beginning of the year. Part of that has been the injuries to Dunleavy and McDermott, but I think if he goes back towards that, it may help everyone out if he's not going to stagger Noah and Pau's minutes.

Well, I hope you're right about Kirk, and would support him if he does start playing better. Again, I'm about a big a homer as anyone when it comes to the Bulls, but my eyes are telling another story when I watch them play this year.

I agree with you about the bench mob, I think Thib's is finding it difficult to utilize the weapons that he has this year. This is my biggest issue. Being stubborn is one thing, but when it is consistently NOT working, stubbornness is not the answer. Sometimes, you have to change stuff up, and this is not what I'm seeing with Thib's.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well, I hope you're right about Kirk, and would support him if he does start playing better. Again, I'm about a big a homer as anyone when it comes to the Bulls, but my eyes are telling another story when I watch them play this year.

It's quite literally a career trend with Kirk. Poor starts, strong finishes. It's weird, but I could see it even before I looked up the stats. He must visit Lebron's supplier during the all star break or something lol.

I agree with you about the bench mob, I think Thib's is finding it difficult to utilize the weapons that he has this year. This is my biggest issue. Being stubborn is one thing, but when it is consistently NOT working, stubbornness is not the answer. Sometimes, you have to change stuff up, and this is not what I'm seeing with Thib's.

In a sense, he did change it up by moving away from the bench mob as it wasn't that great to start the year. They had some better results with Brooks, Hinrich, McDermott, Taj, and Pau to start off with. Then McDermott played himself into a rut and we started seeing a lot more of the Brooks, Hinrich, Butler, Taj, Pau group. Then Taj got injured and all of a sudden Mirotic was playing well. In some sense Thibs almost has too much to work with. Remember he has to balance egos and give players enough minutes so that they don't quit on the team. Clearly the whole team hasn't turned on itself...no one seems disgruntled with role, so he's done a good job with that. Now it's just matter of who is playing when. That's the struggle.

 

[Bear Pride]

Every player listed on there, with the exception of Houston & Miami, none of those teams are in the playoff picture, let alone considered a top team in the league. McDermott got his time at the beginning of the year. Hell he even started a few games. The problem was he wasn't effective at anything. He overplayed on defense. He overthought on offense. And the one thing we thought we could count on him for, his shooting, was abysmal. All of these reasons are why he fell in the rotation. Then he had knee surgery. He has barely practiced & everyone on here wants him in the starting lineup and playing 25+ mpg. How is any of that logical? How does that really help the team? The short answer is it doesn't, at least not right now.

And please for the love of God stop it with this "Thibs doesn't play rookies" crap. Mirotic has played plenty so far. Doug was 1st off the bench at the beginning of the year, & Asik was a major rotation player in the ECF his first year. Just because Thibs chooses to develope the players throughout the season, gradually building their confidence & comfortability within the system does not mean he's adverse to rookies or hates them. So guys, please give it a rest already because its a losing argument.

First, you believe what you want, but with all due respect, I'll believe what I want. I have been as big a supporter of the Bulls the past few season as anyone. Where do I start .... as far as McD and 25+ minutes, read my prior posts. I already stated I didn't expect him to play those type of minutes, so don't put words in my mouth. However, he should get some minutes, especially with the current shooting drought.

No one here has stated they expect McD to start, again, putting words in my mouth. However, I'd like to see him get some minutes with Rose. Rose needs a shooter in the game to dish the ball to. Everyone wants to blame Rose for being selfish, but Thib's can help him by playing him with McD or Niko a little.

Thib's seems to think that when Rose and Pau are in the game, he can stick 3 defensive guys in there with them and all's good. Guess what? You need guys that can shoot from the outside as well.

Watch tonight's game, when Rose and Pau play, Thib's should play either Brooks, Niko, or McD, but he doesn't. Instead, he'll play Kirk, Butler and Noah, or Kirk, Butler and Taj. We saw the resurgence in the Pheonix game when Brooks played all of Kirk's usual minutes.

This is exactly why Dunn is missed so much, cuz he would actually be a shooter that plays with these guys. But Thib's doesn't get it, imo. It's all about the combination of players, and Thib's isn't doing this correctly, and I wish people would stop making excuses for him. :dunno:

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well also recall this: Thibs has been able to win games with one shooter and all defensive players (see Augustin, Hinrich, Butler, Taj, Noah lineup from last year). He's trying to recreate that because quite frankly our defense has not been up to standard. However, we do need shooters to succeed. These players exist on the roster, but they're playing 20 minutes tops usually. Part of this is because they're part of the reason why the defense is bad in the first place.

 

[Bear Pride]

Well also recall this: Thibs has been able to win games with one shooter and all defensive players (see Augustin, Hinrich, Butler, Taj, Noah lineup from last year). He's trying to recreate that because quite frankly our defense has not been up to standard. However, we do need shooters to succeed. These players exist on the roster, but they're playing 20 minutes tops usually. Part of this is because they're part of the reason why the defense is bad in the first place.

Yes, I think this has a lot to do with it. Thib's is stuck in limbo a little bit in between defense and offense. He hasn't figured out how to do both. I think he should start the adjustment by having a 3 pt shooter in at all times. Also, he should experiment with a heavy offensive lineup, imo, and coach the guys up defensively.

Once Dunn went down, the slump started cuz we lost that shooter in the starting lineup, and Thib's hasn't adjusted by playing Brooks, Niko, or McD in his place. I think one of these guys should be in the lineup at all times w/o Dunn. It's up to Thib's to adjust the lineup to make that happen, imo.