Montero DFA'd, welcome to the bigs Caritini!

[beckdawg]

Fair enough. The only thing is the multiple teams would not have caused a bidding war. Montero gets the remainder of his contract no matter what. A team picking him up would have to pay $250K, the prorated minimum, no matter who they were. The difference is that Montero would simply get to choose where he would go and Toronto was probably not high on the list.

Well i'm not really saying a bidding war but like I said surely someone would be like "screw it" and give you a nothing player rather than hassle with it if the cubs pushed any. I mean we're at a good point for teams to reevaluate their system and clean house a bit given the draft. It's often around now you'll see teams essentially do players a solid and trade them rather than just out right cutting them or not playing them. I remember recently the cubs did that with Mike Soscia's kid IIRC.

Regardless, soon or later we'll know one way or another so no real reason to get into a heated debate about it. But like I said I think they will get something more than just money.

 

[chibears55]

The trade is for PTBNL or Cash consideration..

SO, probably looking over their system to see who would they like and for how much they'll eat on Montero remaining salary

Or

They can always wait and use the PTBNL in a deadline deal if trading partner interested in someone from Toronto

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

 

[beckdawg]

The trade is for PTBNL or Cash consideration..

SO, probably looking over their system to see who would they like and for how much they'll eat on Montero remaining salary

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Could also theoretically be someone injured who they want to review medicals on.

 

[brett05]

No man, you don't get to spin it that way. Montero's deal is up at the end of the year, Toronto needed a backup to give Martin some rest. You didn't say a contender wouldn't pick him up, you said no one would.

You are right, I did say no one. So I will take it as a minor correction. I also said he's not going to a contender and that he was a next year project which for Toronto is 100% true. The next year for Toronto is their young catchers who are not quite ready to be called up. Montero represents that placeholder to keep the kids developing where they should be based on the philosophy of Toronto. But you have to admit, I pretty much nailed Montero here. He had no value to a contending team.

EDIT: I just re-read what I said in this thread. Everything was toward a contending team. Not any team, but a contending team so I was 100% right in what I posted. In fairness, I'll still take the minor hit because I could have expanded that to the non-contenders like Toronto. What I didn't consider is exactly what Toronto did. Had a need, did not want to promote within sooner than they expected. SO they filled since it would have no real affect on the team at the mlb level.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

You are right, I did say no one. So I will take it as a minor correction. I also said he's not going to a contender and that he was a next year project which for Toronto is 100% true. The next year for Toronto is their young catchers who are not quite ready to be called up. Montero represents that placeholder to keep the kids developing where they should be based on the philosophy of Toronto. But you have to admit, I pretty much nailed Montero here. He had no value to a contending team.

I'm not sure about that. MLB Radio is reporting there were several teams interested when he cleared waivers so Toronto jumped the gun before he could choose somewhere else. Of course we have zero way of knowing if any of them were contenders and we'll never settle this without knowing that.

 

[beckdawg]

He had no value to a contending team.

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion when A) we don't know what the cubs got for him as the PTBNL and B) we don't know what other teams were potentially interested. It's entirely probable that I could be right and the cubs could be getting a lottery ticket PTBNL. And if that is the case it's possible that a contending team also had interest but the cubs liked the lottery ticket from Toronto more than anything anyone else was offering.

Either way, think you're sort of splitting hairs when talking about a contending team vs non-contending. The point was always that someone would want him which was obviously the case. Presumably that team would have been a contending team because in most cases you don't buy when you're out of it already. In Toronto's case they had injuries and needed someone. But frankly at the end of the day it doesn't matter why they want him. It matters the cubs were able to get something for him whatever that may be.

 

[brett05]

I'm not sure about that. MLB Radio is reporting there were several teams interested when he cleared waivers so Toronto jumped the gun before he could choose somewhere else. Of course we have zero way of knowing if any of them were contenders and we'll never settle this without knowing that.

What we do know for sure is no one in the NL wanted him to put a claim on him. That includes the contending teams. If his value was as high as most of the folks here on CCS claimed that it was, a claim and a trade of some sort of deal would have been worked out.

 

[brett05]

Not sure how you can come to that conclusion when A) we don't know what the cubs got for him as the PTBNL and B) we don't know what other teams were potentially interested. It's entirely probable that I could be right and the cubs could be getting a lottery ticket PTBNL. And if that is the case it's possible that a contending team also had interest but the cubs liked the lottery ticket from Toronto more than anything anyone else was offering.

Either way, think you're sort of splitting hairs when talking about a contending team vs non-contending. The point was always that someone would want him which was obviously the case. Presumably that team would have been a contending team because in most cases you don't buy when you're out of it already. In Toronto's case they had injuries and needed someone. But frankly at the end of the day it doesn't matter why they want him. It matters the cubs were able to get something for him whatever that may be.

You are discussing two completely different situations. The value of Montero is what was bantered about. The other which you bring in is the value to the Cubs. The Cubs value is getting rid of Montero. That they get anything (money, player) is just sprinkles. The cake is the removal of Montero.

You also imply that the Cubs had a choice in lottery tickets as you phrased it. They did not have a choice. The claiming system doesn't work that way.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

What we do know for sure is no one in the NL wanted him to put a claim on him. That includes the contending teams. If his value was as high as most of the folks here on CCS claimed that it was, a claim and a trade of some sort of deal would have been worked out.

Why just the NL? I always assumed his value was to an AL team.

 

[beckdawg]

You are discussing two completely different situations. The value of Montero is what was bantered about. The other which you bring in is the value to the Cubs. The Cubs value is getting rid of Montero. That they get anything (money, player) is just sprinkles. The cake is the removal of Montero.

I'm pretty confident the cubs will at least get a PTBNL type prospect for him. Miggy's problem was he's pissed he doesn't play as the #1 catcher. There's enough bad catchers out there with the way he's hitting he'll start for someone perhaps even a playoff contender.

This is what I originally said that you took issue with saying in effect Montero is shit and no one would want him. How exactly is that any different than this situation played out?

You also imply that the Cubs had a choice in lottery tickets as you phrased it. They did not have a choice. The claiming system doesn't work that way.

Montero cleared waivers because no one wanted to pick up the entirety of his contract($7 mil). Because he cleared waivers the cubs had two choices. A) they can assign him to the minors him which he undoubtedly would decline or B) they can trade him in which they had 10 days or he's auto released. But they can trade him to anyone because no one claimed him. So they very much could have the choice of options among interested teams.

 

[DanTown]

Great irony in the BlueJays, the team that overpaid for Martin, is the team desperate enough to take on Montero.

 

[brett05]

Why just the NL? I always assumed his value was to an AL team.

Because it goes in reverse order according to record league by league. In this case every NL team first and then worst AL team to best record wise. We can't speak for 10-12 teams in the AL, we can speak for the rest however.

EDIT: Replied before reading Beckdawg's reply. I am wrong, he cleared and got traded, no contending team wanted to make a better offer at best.

 

[brett05]

Montero cleared waivers because no one wanted to pick up the entirety of his contract($7 mil). Because he cleared waivers the cubs had two choices. A) they can assign him to the minors him which he undoubtedly would decline or B) they can trade him in which they had 10 days or he's auto released. But they can trade him to anyone because no one claimed him. So they very much could have the choice of options among interested teams.

My bad, you are right, I am wrong. Here's the thing. If there are other teams and that is a BIG IF, the offer was less than Toronto. If a playoff contending team wanted Montero in trade they would have made a reasonable offer. It's likely that it was no playoff team since a reasonable offer wasn't made outside of Toronto that is known. I provided evidence on why Montero is a bad bet. Nothing that has transpired has done anything to undermine my statement.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

My bad, you are right, I am wrong. Here's the thing. If there are other teams and that is a BIG IF, the offer was less than Toronto. If a playoff contending team wanted Montero in trade they would have made a reasonable offer. It's likely that it was no playoff team since a reasonable offer wasn't made outside of Toronto that is known. I provided evidence on why Montero is a bad bet. Nothing that has transpired has done anything to undermine my statement.

Why would a non-contending team want him, outside of Toronto who probably think they are contending? I would think it more likely a contending team would. Non-contending teams are typically prone to promoting a minor leaguer than trading for a vet who takes away at bats.

 

[brett05]

Why would a non-contending team want him, outside of Toronto who probably think they are contending? I would think it more likely a contending team would. Non-contending teams are typically prone to promoting a minor leaguer than trading for a vet who takes away at bats.

I answered this in Post #67

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Why would a non-contending team want him, outside of Toronto who probably think they are contending? I would think it more likely a contending team would. Non-contending teams are typically prone to promoting a minor leaguer than trading for a vet who takes away at bats.

Toronto needs some help. They got almost no production behind Martin and the upside for them is that if Montero plays well they could deal him in a few weeks. You gotta put bodies on the field and Martin can't play everyday.

 

[TL1961]

You are right, I did say no one. So I will take it as a minor correction. I also said he's not going to a contender and that he was a next year project which for Toronto is 100% true. The next year for Toronto is their young catchers who are not quite ready to be called up. Montero represents that placeholder to keep the kids developing where they should be based on the philosophy of Toronto. But you have to admit, I pretty much nailed Montero here. He had no value to a contending team.

EDIT: I just re-read what I said in this thread. Everything was toward a contending team. Not any team, but a contending team so I was 100% right in what I posted. In fairness, I'll still take the minor hit because I could have expanded that to the non-contenders like Toronto. What I didn't consider is exactly what Toronto did. Had a need, did not want to promote within sooner than they expected. SO they filled since it would have no real affect on the team at the mlb level.

C'mon. You're backing off everything.

Position players don't get traded. Nobody will trade for Montero. He will sit until 2018.

 

[beckdawg]

More details on the financial aspects of the Miguel Montero trade via ESPN, though questions will remain: “Chicago is paying Toronto $6,446,710 in seven installments through Oct. 6 as part of the trade, covering all but $515,039 of the $6,961,749 remaining of Montero’s $14 million salary this year.” So, that’s definitely useful information – we know, at a minimum, that the Cubs have saved a little over half a million. What we still don’t know, however, is whether the list of PTBNLs from which the Cubs could choose their return is a quality list or merely organizational filler, and/or how much “cash considerations” the Cubs could instead choose to receive. If the latter is a significant amount, that would change the complexion of the financial aspects of this trade (especially if that choice is made before the Trade Deadline, which would allow the Cubs to better know how much flexibility they have under the luxury tax cap).

So, yeah they don't appear to be saving very much over the $250k or so they would get from prorated min.

 

[brett05]

C'mon. You're backing off everything.

Position players don't get traded. Nobody will trade for Montero. He will sit until 2018.

Please re-read what I wrote. I didn't back off at all. I never said position players don't get traded. I specifically, in this thread, spoke of playoff contending teams. Toronto is not a playoff contending team. Why you struggle giving me credit is your issue, not mine.

 

[JP Hochbaum]

3/8 playoff teams last year traded for a catcher. The idea that playoff teams don't trade for catcher is just blatantly false. I am counting the Indians of last year as they had a trade in place for Lucroy but Lucroy declined to go there.