MVP watch...face the facts gentlemen...

[RamiTheBullsFan]

If it was "best player" award or "player of the year" award, LeBron James would ran away woth it every year...

in fact, the history of the award would look a lot like this:

2011 James
10 - James
09- James
08- Bryant
07- Bryant
06- Bryant
05 - Bryant
04 - Garnett/Duncan
03 - Garnett/Duncan
02 - O'Neal
01 - O'Neal
00 - O'Neal
99 - O'Neal
98 - Jordan
97 - Jordan
96 - Jordan
95 - Olajuwon
94 - Olajuwon
93 - Jordan
92 - Jordan
91 - Jordan
90 - Jordan
(starts to get shady)
89 - Jordan
88 - Johnson/Jordan
87 - Johnson/Jordan
86 - Johnson/Bird
85 - Johnson/Bird
84 - Johnson/Bird
83 - Johnson/Bird

 

[houheffna]

About the Shaq-talk... I just tire of hearing the cases about 'oh he had Shaq' and blah blah blah in the cases of Kobe not being able to win without Shaq and then Wade not being able to win without Shaq. It was more of an emotional point than anthing of substance.

And 'name an MVP who is not in the Hall of Fame'... that is a head-scratcher because Kobe Bryant isn't in the HOF yet. Nor James. Nor Nash, nor Nowitzki. Tim Duncan isn't. Nor is Allen Iverson.

(yet)

Derrick Rose sure is looking like he may end up in that group of guys pretty soon.

MVP awards tend to come before being inducted into the HOF...

And I know that it isn't cut-and-dry that Rose is the MVP. By the standards I've always had for the MVP, he definitely looks like he deserves it more than LeBron James. There is a reason Nash has 2 MVP trophies the same years Kobe Bryant was the undisputed best player in the league... the Suns won tons of games those years, and without Nash... they would have been pretty bad. The Lakers would have been even worse without Kobe, but they weren't even capable of winning a very high number of games even with him.

Your standards don't really matter, you ain't voting....you are wrong about why Nash won 2 MVPs...dead wrong, but you know what man, I have explained that to you several times...so forget it.

As for your reply concerning the MVP,that was a dumb ass reply...so I will leave it where it is...

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Your standards don't really matter, you ain't voting....you are wrong about why Nash won 2 MVPs...dead wrong, but you know what man, I have explained that to you several times...so forget it.

As for your reply concerning the MVP,that was a dumb ass reply...so I will leave it where it is...

I may not be voting, but that's what it seems like the voters tend to focus on the most: wins in the regular season.

 

[WindyCity7]

**** lebron & whoever's name is enscribed into the mvp 2010-2011 season trophy if its not derrick rose

 

[Crystallas]

Fans do get to vote. Its only 1 vote, maybe more pending if other sponsors jump in. LOL

LeBron wont win it because of the haters. He would have to break an NBA season record in a major regular season stat(not based on an equation) to give biased voters no choice. Rose has a ways to go, but the politics are the NBA is in Rose and Stoudemire's favor.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Fans do get to vote. Its only 1 vote, maybe more pending if other sponsors jump in. LOL

LeBron wont win it because of the haters. He would have to break an NBA season record in a major regular season stat(not based on an equation) to give biased voters no choice. Rose has a ways to go, but the politics are the NBA is in Rose and Stoudemire's favor.

Stoudemire has zero chance at the MVP man... It's a joke that ESPN ranks him ahead of Chris Paul.

 

[Crystallas]

Stoudemire has zero chance at the MVP man... It's a joke that ESPN ranks him ahead of Chris Paul.

He will get 1st place votes. Politics of the game, plain and simple.

 

[Chi-Town Brahma]

Lebron is king...sorry to say it but dude is killing right now. Question my Bulls loyalty if you want, he is sooooooo much better than anybody else...its not close. Rose might be your runner up...

NBA Awards Watch - ESPN

I wont question your loyalty because your being objective & honest. He is playing well. Read what else I think:


This is not directed to you or anyone here, but.......


I fucking hate this general consensus around the media & NBA fans that just fall to James feet & just can't wait to hand him the MVP as if it was literally on fire.

Don't get me wrong, he is as much deserving as anybody. I just get sick & tired of ESPN & every other sports media person salivating at the opportunity to give him another award. Sports Media, just blow your load now. This is a fight for the MVP this year.

For the first time in years the Bulls have someone truly in contention for the coveted award.

I have felt this way in the past when it comes to James & the MVP award. Whether or not Rose is up for it or not.

Quote me.....LeBron James is deserving of this years MVP award, BUT he doesn't need it handed to him so simply. I will be a little disappointed if he wins it this year. It will be a notch down for the NBA. WE as fans even wanna see a new MVP arise. Whether it's Rose or not. :smoke:

 

[clonetrooper264]

I think it's kind of neck and neck between LeBron and Rose. LeBron is the better player, but Rose means at least as much to the Bulls if not more than LeBron does for Miami. They have virtually the same record and the Bulls have far less talent than the Heat (3 All Stars to 1). We live and die by Rose, the Heat could probably live without LeBron (though they did lose the 2 games he didn't play so I might be wrong by technicality for now) since they still have Wade and Bosh and Mike Miller who's getting healthier every game (he's not anywhere close to the big 3, but he's probably their 4th best player imo). We lose Rose and we're pretty much done (though props to CJ if he pops out more 30+ point games in his absence xD). Just my take on it.

 

[Shakes]

If it was "best player" award or "player of the year" award, LeBron James would ran away woth it every year...

Agree in spirit, except Bryant never would have won a MVP (just to stir Hou up).

 

[houheffna]

I wont question your loyalty because your being objective & honest. He is playing well. Read what else I think:


This is not directed to you or anyone here, but.......


I fucking hate this general consensus around the media & NBA fans that just fall to James feet & just can't wait to hand him the MVP as if it was literally on fire.

Don't get me wrong, he is as much deserving as anybody. I just get sick & tired of ESPN & every other sports media person salivating at the opportunity to give him another award. Sports Media, just blow your load now. This is a fight for the MVP this year.

For the first time in years the Bulls have someone truly in contention for the coveted award.

I have felt this way in the past when it comes to James & the MVP award. Whether or not Rose is up for it or not.

Quote me.....LeBron James is deserving of this years MVP award, BUT he doesn't need it handed to him so simply. I will be a little disappointed if he wins it this year. It will be a notch down for the NBA. WE as fans even wanna see a new MVP arise. Whether it's Rose or not. :smoke:

Nobody handed Lebron anything...and have you seen how the media has treated Lebron? Rose and Durant are the darlings of the media not Lebron. Lebron was given MVP because he was the best in the game and the media doesn't want Kobe to have anything because most of the media hated him...now? His legitimacy is still undisputed. Rose is very much legitimate. But Durant was everyone's preseason pick for MVP. But this is not at all the media catering to Lebron, it is quite the opposite.

 

[houheffna]

Agree in spirit, except Bryant never would have won a MVP (just to stir Hou up).

Not today my man...not today....lol

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

Does anybody else see the possibility of people voting for LeBron James just because they know they will be accused of being biased against him if they don't? I could see that being a card for a trypical sportswriter to use.

'Oh, well, I wrote a whole bunch of nasty shit against LeBron because of The Decision but you can't accuse me of being impartial against him because I gave him my 1st place vote for the MVP award'

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

It is the Most Valuable Player award... let's not forget that word "valuable" because it is very important.

Now from this we can assume that whichever player is the most 'valuable' is going to win the award.

But the big question is value in terms of what exactly?

Well, we know that this is a regular season award. And we know that there is nothing more valuable in professional sports than winning.

So how come the best player on the best team doesn't win the award every year (i.e. someone in 2011 like Rajon Rondo of the Celtics or Manu Ginobili of the Spurs)? Because in the cases of the Spurs and Celtics, they can afford to lose their best player and would still be exceptional teams (both of them would be hovering around 45-37 on the season).

And we already know that value does =/= best. It could just so happen they are the most valuable player in the league and the best, but often those things do not coincide. Therefore it won't be 1988-1998 Jordan or 2008-present day LeBron James almost guaranteed to win the award every year.

The Chicago Bulls would have one of the lowly records in the NBA this year if it was not for Derrick Rose. Joakim Noah has missed most of the season, and Boozer has missed nearly a third of it. The Dallas Mavericks would not even be in the playoff picture if they did not have Dirk Nowitzki. Especially with the injury to Caron Butler. The New Orleans Hornets would likely be one of the worst teams in the NBA without Chris Paul.

As for the Miami Heat, they would not be nearly the same. But they would still have Dwyane Wade and even (the overrated up-til-this season) Chris Bosh to carry the load for them offensively. Defensively, they would take a punch, but James Jones would help their cause. They would still be a solid plus-.500 team. Especially considering they now have Bosh (though minus Haslem due to injury) to throw on top of a team that won was it 47 games last year? Not bad at all.

***The player who most typically wins the MVP is the player who garners the most wins for his respective team during the NBA regular season.

I believe that player is Derrick Rose.

Just a sidenote: I picked Dwight Howard in the off-season and thought that Kevin Durant would be a bigger part of the MVP race than he is.

 

[RamiTheBullsFan]

But I don't think that the right guy wins the MVP award every year anyway. And that makes an already non-essential award of even less importance. Kind of like what happens after giving Barack Obama and Yassir Arafat the Nobel Peace Prize... it loses it's meaning after that.

and :smh: at using the ESPN rankings in the O.P. The link is like 6 days old anyway. When the new one comes out, with Rose in 1st place, I'll be sure to post it to rub it in houf's nose. Though ESPN/nba.com doesn't really post respectable awards/power rankings articles/lists anyway. (Amare and Westbrook over CP3? Come on...)

 

[Chi-Town Brahma]

Nobody handed Lebron anything...and have you seen how the media has treated Lebron? Rose and Durant are the darlings of the media not Lebron. Lebron was given MVP because he was the best in the game and the media doesn't want Kobe to have anything because most of the media hated him...now? His legitimacy is still undisputed. Rose is very much legitimate. But Durant was everyone's preseason pick for MVP. But this is not at all the media catering to Lebron, it is quite the opposite.

I hear ya 100%. My argument is with how the media handles the whole thing though. Specifically the MVP award. Not James himself.

They have also started to majorly soften up on him now that it is getting back into MVP talks. There isn't anywhere near the dislike they had for him when it all began in November. He's suddenly liked more again.....because it's time to talk MVP votes.

When I mean "handed", I mean they just say him right way & use very little reasoning why the 2nd & 3rd guys going up for it deserve it. Same thing happened when he won his first one. Wade & Kobe, especially Kobe, were legitimately have as good of a year as LeBron but the media just wouldn't give into that.

It's whatever though. I just want to see someone else win it. I know, it's not like he won it 10x's in a row....but I'm still tired of it. Let's see a new MVP. :thinking:

 

[houheffna]

I hear ya 100%. My argument is with how the media handles the whole thing though. Not James himself.

When I mean "handed", I mean they just say him right way & use very little reasoning why the 2nd & 3rd guys going up for it deserve it. Same thing happened when he won his first one. Wade & Kobe, especially Kobe, were legitimately have as good of a year as LeBron but the media just wouldn't give into that.

It's whatever though. I just want to see someone else win it. I know, it's not like he won it 10x's in a row....but I'm still tired of it. Let's see a new MVP. :thinking:

"Let's see a new MVP" is not at all a good reason to have a new MVP. I didn't feel that way when Jordan would win consistently so I don't feel that way now. I never said "Barkley should win it because Jordan has won 2 straight...". You give MVP to who deserves it.

If its Lebron, it doesn't matter if he has won 2,3,4 in a row, he should get the award if he deserves it...

 

[Chi-Town Brahma]

"Let's see a new MVP" is not at all a good reason to have a new MVP. I didn't feel that way when Jordan would win consistently so I don't feel that way now. I never said "Barkley should win it because Jordan has won 2 straight...". You give MVP to who deserves it.

If its Lebron, it doesn't matter if he has won 2,3,4 in a row, he should get the award if he deserves it...

I understand what you mean. I hear that. I do agree that you give it to who deserves it..

It's not about what we think though. We don't vote. There is no viewer choice award for NBA MVP that counts toward the actual overall vote.

:lol: Once again, my argument has nothing to do with the player personally or their abilities. It is how it is handled by the media. That's all....but enough from me. :smoke:

 

[houheffna]

It is the Most Valuable Player award... let's not forget that word "valuable" because it is very important.

Now from this we can assume that whichever player is the most 'valuable' is going to win the award.

But the big question is value in terms of what exactly?

Well, we know that this is a regular season award. And we know that there is nothing more valuable in professional sports than winning.

So how come the best player on the best team doesn't win the award every year (i.e. someone in 2011 like Rajon Rondo of the Celtics or Manu Ginobili of the Spurs)? Because in the cases of the Spurs and Celtics, they can afford to lose their best player and would still be exceptional teams (both of them would be hovering around 45-37 on the season).

And we already know that value does =/= best. It could just so happen they are the most valuable player in the league and the best, but often those things do not coincide. Therefore it won't be 1988-1998 Jordan or 2008-present day LeBron James almost guaranteed to win the award every year.

The Chicago Bulls would have one of the lowly records in the NBA this year if it was not for Derrick Rose. Joakim Noah has missed most of the season, and Boozer has missed nearly a third of it. The Dallas Mavericks would not even be in the playoff picture if they did not have Dirk Nowitzki. Especially with the injury to Caron Butler. The New Orleans Hornets would likely be one of the worst teams in the NBA without Chris Paul.

As for the Miami Heat, they would not be nearly the same. But they would still have Dwyane Wade and even (the overrated up-til-this season) Chris Bosh to carry the load for them offensively. Defensively, they would take a punch, but James Jones would help their cause. They would still be a solid plus-.500 team. Especially considering they now have Bosh (though minus Haslem due to injury) to throw on top of a team that won was it 47 games last year? Not bad at all.

***The player who most typically wins the MVP is the player who garners the most wins for his respective team during the NBA regular season.

I believe that player is Derrick Rose.

Just a sidenote: I picked Dwight Howard in the off-season and thought that Kevin Durant would be a bigger part of the MVP race than he is.

We don't know exactly, the impact Rose's absence would have on the Bulls like we do the Mavs without Dirk, so shouldn't that player be Dirk Nowitzki? In a tougher conference? He doesn't have a player nearly as good as Boozer on his team. Nobody is scoring as much as Deng on the Mavs team right now. So, based on your criteria, which your tailored for Rose...you picked the wrong guy. Dirk is the man...

 

[houheffna]

But I don't think that the right guy wins the MVP award every year anyway. And that makes an already non-essential award of even less importance. Kind of like what happens after giving Barack Obama and Yassir Arafat the Nobel Peace Prize... it loses it's meaning after that.

and :smh: at using the ESPN rankings in the O.P. The link is like 6 days old anyway. When the new one comes out, with Rose in 1st place, I'll be sure to post it to rub it in houf's nose. Though ESPN/nba.com doesn't really post respectable awards/power rankings articles/lists anyway. (Amare and Westbrook over CP3? Come on...)

Bad analogy...the MVP now is losing its meaning? Because some people pick Rose over Lebron? Sounds like whining to me...