My hope for Nagy...

jazzmcfunk

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I think you could be partially right. The QB forced Nagy to look at alternate plays that did not include Trubisky. However, in that scenario he ignored the fact that the situation (being on the goal line) did not call for a sweep.

In addition to running a sweep he had a tendency to run it to the short side with Graham as the lead blocker..... Sorry but Nagy had too many better alternatives, and that is 100% on him.

Trubisky limited Nagy in the passing game, but Nagy was still responsible for the run game and personnel/situational awareness.

The acceptable alternative would have been 1st and 1/2 - Dive left; 2nd and 1/2 Dive right; 3rd and 1/2 dive left; 4th and 1/2 dive right. Montgomery was averaging around 6ypc at that point in the season. 4 tries to score from the half yard line by running the ball should result in a TD. The result of the jet sweet was a 7 yard loss and an eventual FG.

I 100% agree that was on Nagy.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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Just to put it out there, this is what I personally think of Nagy.

I think he is a good motivator, I think his schemes are on point actually, but I think on Game Day, he has some lacking qualities and I also think he can be stubborn to a fault.

For instance, ever since he hit the scene in 2018, I noticed that our WRs were constantly getting open. Like seriously, all the damn time. For all the bullshit about the scheme sucking, how can a scheme suck that gets guys open all the time?

However, during that same stretch, the O-Line looked bad, the QB even when he had time wasn't seeing the open receivers a lot of the time, and I mean a LOT of the time, and there were too many times where a pointless timeout was called.

And yes, there were times where Nagy, who had it work in 2018, got too "cute" and it bit him in the ass.


However, I really didn't understand the depth of all the issues until late last year.


Things I blame on Nagy:

  • Clock Management - Sage Rosenfels pointed out the reasoning was because in terms of packages, Nagy deploys about 32. That's 32 different personnel groupings. So managing who should and shouldn't be on the field is damn hard. NFL average is somewhere between 12-18 personnel groupings on offense. That's frankly just overkill, and a QB's big brain overthinking a problem
Things I am on the fence about with Nagy:
  • Stubborness - This I can actually understand to a point. It would be hard to give up on a scheme that is frequently getting your receivers open. He's been dying to have someone able to see the open guys and deliver them the ball, and he just hasn't had that yet in any QB. And the dumbed down schemes for Mitch only worked against poor opposing talent. You would never contend like that, and making that argument is a backdoor argument that Mitch didn't really suck, which he did.
Things I don't blame on Nagy:
  • Offensive line play - it improved when Mustipher was in, and I figured out why. Olin Kreutz the week before Sam got to play said he noticed it seemed like the center was consistently making the wrong line calls, which resulted in the Offensive Line blocking the wrong people. Therefore, while fans like me bitch that the line sucks, the line wasn't even lining up and attacking the correct guy they were assigned to. Mustipher came in and cleaned that up, because he was the only one the Bears had who was making the RIGHT line calls. Cody kept fucking it up. Daniels was too quiet when he had his shot and no one could hear him making the calls. And it is clear the coaches and GM thought the line was way too soft, because they brought in 2 of the nastiest motherfuckers in the draft on O line to come play for them, and then all the UDFA linemen they signed also all had noted mean streaks. And then they cut Leno. That was mostly cap, but it also sends a message that puts all gentle giants on notice - and I can't be mad at the coaches for sending that message.
  • Quarterback sucking - can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit folks. And that is what the Bears had with Foles and Mitch. Now he finally has a good prospect to work with, and I am not going to fault the potter for getting bad clay. On his draft board back in 2017, Nagy had Mahommes as a generational talent, Watson as an all pro, and Mitch as "an athlete playing quarterback".

Of course, going forward its all on Nagy now. No more excuses. But in retrospect, I don't hate him like some.....
 

Mighty Joe Young

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I don't care if Kermit the frog is coaching as long as Fields succeeds.

Well, we had Kermit the Frog as our last quarterback. Swore I heard Mitch singing every time he missed a bomb...

"Someday we'll find it, the rainbow connection...the lovers...the dreamers...and me...."
 

Brownie

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Just to put it out there, this is what I personally think of Nagy.

I think he is a good motivator, I think his schemes are on point actually, but I think on Game Day, he has some lacking qualities and I also think he can be stubborn to a fault.

For instance, ever since he hit the scene in 2018, I noticed that our WRs were constantly getting open. Like seriously, all the damn time. For all the bullshit about the scheme sucking, how can a scheme suck that gets guys open all the time?

However, during that same stretch, the O-Line looked bad, the QB even when he had time wasn't seeing the open receivers a lot of the time, and I mean a LOT of the time, and there were too many times where a pointless timeout was called.

And yes, there were times where Nagy, who had it work in 2018, got too "cute" and it bit him in the ass.


However, I really didn't understand the depth of all the issues until late last year.


Things I blame on Nagy:

  • Clock Management - Sage Rosenfels pointed out the reasoning was because in terms of packages, Nagy deploys about 32. That's 32 different personnel groupings. So managing who should and shouldn't be on the field is damn hard. NFL average is somewhere between 12-18 personnel groupings on offense. That's frankly just overkill, and a QB's big brain overthinking a problem
Things I am on the fence about with Nagy:
  • Stubborness - This I can actually understand to a point. It would be hard to give up on a scheme that is frequently getting your receivers open. He's been dying to have someone able to see the open guys and deliver them the ball, and he just hasn't had that yet in any QB. And the dumbed down schemes for Mitch only worked against poor opposing talent. You would never contend like that, and making that argument is a backdoor argument that Mitch didn't really suck, which he did.
Things I don't blame on Nagy:
  • Offensive line play - it improved when Mustipher was in, and I figured out why. Olin Kreutz the week before Sam got to play said he noticed it seemed like the center was consistently making the wrong line calls, which resulted in the Offensive Line blocking the wrong people. Therefore, while fans like me bitch that the line sucks, the line wasn't even lining up and attacking the correct guy they were assigned to. Mustipher came in and cleaned that up, because he was the only one the Bears had who was making the RIGHT line calls. Cody kept fucking it up. Daniels was too quiet when he had his shot and no one could hear him making the calls. And it is clear the coaches and GM thought the line was way too soft, because they brought in 2 of the nastiest motherfuckers in the draft on O line to come play for them, and then all the UDFA linemen they signed also all had noted mean streaks. And then they cut Leno. That was mostly cap, but it also sends a message that puts all gentle giants on notice - and I can't be mad at the coaches for sending that message.
  • Quarterback sucking - can't make chicken salad out of chicken shit folks. And that is what the Bears had with Foles and Mitch. Now he finally has a good prospect to work with, and I am not going to fault the potter for getting bad clay. On his draft board back in 2017, Nagy had Mahommes as a generational talent, Watson as an all pro, and Mitch as "an athlete playing quarterback".

Of course, going forward its all on Nagy now. No more excuses. But in retrospect, I don't hate him like some.....
You make some good points.

And I don't hate Nagy. I agree he is a motivator, and even think he can be a good HC. I just hate that it seems like he won't ultimately do what is best for the offense and team: JUST be the HC.

It's hard enough being one (an OC calling plays on gameday) or the other (the HC that needs to pay attention to EVERYHING on gameday). But his stubborness, ego, and video game type love of calling plays is a detriment imo. And I DO hate that.
 

modo

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I think Nagy is a better HC than he is an OC....i'll just leave it at that.
 

Mighty Joe Young

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You make some good points.

And I don't hate Nagy. I agree he is a motivator, and even think he can be a good HC. I just hate that it seems like he won't ultimately do what is best for the offense and team: JUST be the HC.

It's hard enough being one (an OC calling plays on gameday) or the other (the HC that needs to pay attention to EVERYHING on gameday). But his stubborness, ego, and video game type love of calling plays is a detriment imo. And I DO hate that.

But see, this is where I get lost in the weeds a bit - what if most of his play calls WERE on point...but Mitch never threw the ball where it was supposed to go?
 

modo

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But see, this is where I get lost in the weeds a bit - what if most of his play calls WERE on point...but Mitch never threw the ball where it was supposed to go?
But when Lazor was coaching the ball seemed to go where it was supposed to

and if thats the case Foles all of a sudden couldnt find the right guy, neither could any other QB that threw the ball....
 

Brownie

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But see, this is where I get lost in the weeds a bit - what if most of his play calls WERE on point...but Mitch never threw the ball where it was supposed to go?

I think you are mistaken regarding the totality of why people think Nagy is over his head as the OC.

It's more than just Mitch's failed passing plays. It's holistic.

Its the missed opportunities to kill/control clock by running the ball.
It's having the wrong personnel in to play to our strengths.
It's lack of awareness and clock management and wondering if it's because he has too much on his plate on gameday.
It's wasting time at the end of halves and saying "I don't think we really had enough time for a drive anyway".

Everything effects everything else and sometimes he doesn't realize that.
 

ThatGuyRyan

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Rashaad Coward. Dude trotted him out there for two fucking years as a STARTER. Yes, he's to blame for the line play.
 

Bearcub13

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So here's one for you.

I think having Fields is going to re-write the Nagy narrative.

As in, fans are going to find out they were very wrong about a lot of the narratives on Matt Nagy, and that most of those narratives were pushed by local media to sell papers/clicks.

Could be why Matt isn't doing local appearances....
You base this opinion on what evidence, just askin'
 

mattb78

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The Foles experiment was pretty telling. Nagy demanded we go out and trade for a guy, and take on a big contract, and that guy can't even beat out the incumbent. And it wasn't even close (93.5 QBR vs. 80.8 QBR). I thought he should have been fired for that reason alone.

But maybe we got lucky. Maybe the football gods shined on us and Nagy played some part in us getting Fields. That he was around long enough for something good to happen to us long term at a position that has had such bad luck for us historically. Maybe Fields will be around for much much longer than Nagy will.
 

modo

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Trubisky is not Nagy's lightning rod...take Trubisky out of the equation and there is a still a shit ton of stuff that Nagy is responsible for
 

Enasic

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Still not sure where all this "great motivator" stuff comes from. Did you guys watch the team last year? There was level 10 loafing on both sides of the ball consistently. The team was completely undisciplined on both sides. How is he a good motivator? The defense flat out gave up in GB. You kidding me? He's a nice rah rah guy who loves everyone and won't call people out and even said as much....well, until he did the exact opposite and called out everyone after the GB game in the most fake, camp counselor, substitute teacher way imaginable. He's terrible. Fucking terrible.
 

nc0gnet0

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R



Rushing attempts are heavily dictated by game situations. If your team is constantly in the lead rushing attempts will go up, and if they are constantly behind they will go down.

In 2018 when we were constantly leading we were ranked 7th in attempts. This was the year where we seemed to dominate from the get go and were able to run a lot.

IN 2019 we were ranked 20th. and 2020 ranked 26th. These years we were constantly behind and had to constantly pass to get scores quickly.

I imagine we will see similar results to 2018 if we get out to early leads.
2018 was a statistical anomaly in the turnover ratio and short fields. When the turnover ratio regressed back to the norm, well, enough said.
 

MikeDitkaPolishSausage

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So here's one for you.

I think having Fields is going to re-write the Nagy narrative.

As in, fans are going to find out they were very wrong about a lot of the narratives on Matt Nagy, and that most of those narratives were pushed by local media to sell papers/clicks.

Could be why Matt isn't doing local appearances....
What narratives are you specifically talking about? There were quite a bit of them.
 

WCL

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The only real way to develop a quarterback is to fire the coaching staff and have him learn a new offense in his second season! That’s what we should hope for!
 

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