Niemis Arbitration

[Ton]

[quote name="R K"]



They weren't better last year, and they arent going to be better this year.



By game 5 their top four will once again be dead against ANY team with Depth.[/quote]



And what about our top 4 this year?



As of now our bottom pairing would consist of Cullimore, Scott, Lalonde, or Vishnevskiy... not pretty either.



Philly right now has a top 6 of Pronger, Timmonen, Carle, Coburn, Meszaros, and O'Donnell with Matt Walker as the #7... they are set on D.



I would think that Turco denied the deal due to the term (wasn't it two or three years?), not the $$ or the city.

 

[E Runs]

[quote name="R K"]





No, but it can after this season, when he'll be 35. I think that was my point, but I'm so confused over this thread I'm not sure.[/quote]

I thought that what you may have ment after I typed it. Oh well, I'm confused as well.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="E Runs"]

I thought that what you may have ment after I typed it. Oh well, I'm confused as well.[/quote]





It gives him a clear incentive to sign a one year deal.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="R K"]





It gives him a clear incentive to sign a one year deal.[/quote]

How does it give him a clear incentive? The majority of the benefits for over 35 deals are to the team, not the player.



If I am Turco, I think I'd rather have $9 million guaranteed over three years than something like a one year deal followed by an incentive-laden contract where I have to pitch 5 shutouts and post a save percentage above .920 just to receive a decent wage.



Yes, these over 35 deals can be more lucrative for the player if that player were to have an excellent year, but that's a risk I would be unwilling to take at a stage of my career when my skills would be declining.

 

[Ton]

[quote name="pmxc12873"]What comments did he and his agent make? all I saw...



6/28/10 - "Traded texts with Turco this morning who confirmed the Flyers' offer but said he wanted to see what was on the market Thursday," said LeBrun on his Twitter profile.[/quote]



That was exactly one month ago, what does that have to do with now? He was talking about waiting for July 1st.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="pmxc12873"]What comments did he and his agent make? all I saw...



6/28/10 - "Traded texts with Turco this morning who confirmed the Flyers' offer but said he wanted to see what was on the market Thursday," said LeBrun on his Twitter profile.[/quote]

I remember reading something on ESPN, either via Burnside's or LeBrun's blog where Turco's agent was quoted as saying that Turco's salary should be based on his body of work for his entire career and the he should be paid as a top-10 NHL goalie as a result.



The top 10 goalies in the league, based on salary, are paid an average of $7 million per year. I doubt he's looking for that kind of dough, but you see my point.



Of course, asking me to try to track down that reference would be nearly impossible at this point, but I do remember reading it.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Ton"]



That was exactly one month ago, what does that have to do with now? He was talking about waiting for July 1st.[/quote]





It has to do with the Fact Whaler and now Kerkuffle suggested Turco had nothing available. Come on admin read the thread!!!

 

[Guest]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

I remember reading something on ESPN, either via Burnside's or LeBrun's blog where Turco's agent was quoted as saying that Turco's salary should be based on his body of work for his entire career and the he should be paid as a top-10 NHL goalie as a result.



The top 10 goalies in the league, based on salary, are paid an average of $7 million per year. I doubt he's looking for that kind of dough, but you see my point.



Of course, asking me to try to track down that reference would be nearly impossible at this point, but I do remember reading it.[/quote]





What the hell do you expect his agent to say? Come on be realistic!



Turco's agent.... "yea well my client only wants to win, He'll play for the league minimum".



LOL

 

[PatrickShart]

Go back and read the thread. Whalerhawk made the comment - sign Turco for what he wants, which I am guessing is around $3 million based on comments made by him and his agent this off season.



And I was responding to that - trying to find out what comments he and his agent have made stating they want more money - other than speculation. Thats what that has to do with it now.

 

[whalerhawk]

[quote name="R K"]





What the hell do you expect his agent to say? Come on be realistic!



Turco's agent.... "yea well my client only wants to win, He'll play for the league minimum".



LOL[/quote]

Ron, he has a choice. Take less salary to play for a cup contender, or wait for a bigger payday and right now, based on his actions, it appears to me that he is doing the latter. He's not going to get both.

 

[mikita's helmet]

If we are unable, or unwilling, to sign Niemi, I wouldn't mind seeing Turco signed for a one year deal. He reminds me of an Eddie Belfour type of goalie, gritty and pugnacious, and I think would be a good fit for the Hawks. I think he'll also have a chip on his shoulder after being let go to prove he's still a good goalie, and not washed-up has-been.



It could be a win/win situation where the Hawks get stable goaltending this year and if Turco has a good season, he can test the free agency market next July with more value than he had this summer.

 

[Ton]

[quote name="pmxc12873"]Go back and read the thread. Whalerhawk made the comment - sign Turco for what he wants, which I am guessing is around $3 million based on comments made by him and his agent this off season.



And I was responding to that - trying to find out what comments he and his agent have made stating they want more money - other than speculation. Thats what that has to do with it now.[/quote]



Ahh okay, just clearing that up.



Of course Turco has had offers. San Jose pitched him one as well.



His options are wearing thin though -- since then San Jose went a different route, signing Niittymaki, and Philly re-upped Leighton. I doubt either of them are looking for a goaltender right now.



To me, I don't think its the MONEY but the TERM that Turco wants. I agree with Ron, he wants his one year deal and then pay day. San Jose and Philly were offering multi-year deals -- since then he probably hasn't had a good enough option.



A lot has changed since a month ago, I'm sure Turcos options are much different now. Not to say he isn't getting offers, but I bet they've slimmed down some -- and that might be a great thing for us if Niemi comes out of arbitration with money out of his ears.

 

[Larmer83]

[quote name="whalerhawk"]

Ron, he has a choice. Take less salary to play for a cup contender, or wait for a bigger payday and right now, based on his actions, it appears to me that he is doing the latter. He's not going to get both.[/quote]

Whaler, the waiting may be as much teams looking to grab Niemi based on the outcome with the Hawks and less Turco making a decision. Once Niemi is decided upon the dominoes fall into place.



My big concern is that when the music stops, the goalie left standing is Theodore.

 

[Ton]

I don't mind landing Theodore. I think any of the three -- Niemi, Turco, Theo... all are good options.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Larmer83"]

Whaler, the waiting may be as much teams looking to grab Niemi based on the outcome with the Hawks and less Turco making a decision. Once Niemi is decided upon the dominoes fall into place.



My big concern is that when the music stops, the goalie left standing is Theodore.[/quote]





Yea I'm not a huge Theodore fan either. But that said he can win behind the Hawks IMO.

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="pmxc12873"]

(Turco) He's had some exceptional playoffs....

07-08 - 2.08ga .922% - lost in conf finals to cup winning DET (.910% in series), had a 61sv on 62 shot gm versus SJ to clinch the series

06-07 - 1.30ga .952% 3 shutouts in losing in 7gms to VAN

05-06 - 3.39ga .868% - lost in 5 to COL

03-04 - 3.32ga .849% - lost in 5 to COL

02-03 - 1.88ga .919% - lost to ANA in 2nd rnd (ANA lost in 7 in finals)



Career playoff numbers - 2.17ga .914%[/quote]

You conveniently omitted the last 2 seasons of numbers. I'll help you out:

FACT: Turco's GAA was 27th place in the 09-10 season.

FACT: Turco's GAA was 30th place in the 08-09 season. btw - his SV% that year was 42nd place at a staggering .899



Let me ask you this - which Turco do you think the Hawks will get? The one with the numbers the last 2 years in the tail end of his career or the numbers from before that before his decline? I would bet he puts up the same numbers or worse this coming season.

 

[Guest]

I'm hoping the Hawks come to terms with Niemi. If not I'm confident that either Theodore (which I'm not a huge fan of) and Turco could also win behind this team.



Agains it's about having the best Defense in the NHL and one of the most potent offenses. If you compare Turco behind the Stars last year, to what he'd be behind the Hawks, I suggest stop watching hockey.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Ton"]



And what about our top 4 this year?



As of now our bottom pairing would consist of Cullimore, Scott, Lalonde, or Vishnevskiy... not pretty either.



Philly right now has a top 6 of Pronger, Timmonen, Carle, Coburn, Meszaros, and O'Donnell with Matt Walker as the #7... they are set on D.



I would think that Turco denied the deal due to the term (wasn't it two or three years?), not the $$ or the city.[/quote]





Our top four this year are exactly the Same. If you think Cullimore, Scott, Lalonde, Vishnevskiy would be much different than Sopel-Hendry your nuts.



Our defense, ALL SIX will still be in the top of the NHL.

 

[Kerfuffle]

[quote name="R K"]I'm hoping the Hawks come to terms with Niemi. If not I'm confident that either Theodore (which I'm not a huge fan of) and Turco could also win behind this team.



Agains it's about having the best Defense in the NHL and one of the most potent offenses. If you compare Turco behind the Stars last year, to what he'd be behind the Hawks, I suggest stop watching hockey.[/quote]

I'll agree with you on that point - basically any good goalie out there has a good D in front of him. However, a good D and a bad goalie is not good enough to win. Case in point: would the Hawks have won it all with Huet in net this past season in the playoffs - with the D playing the same way in front of him as Niemi?? I say no way.

 

[Larmer83]

[quote name="R K"]I'm hoping the Hawks come to terms with Niemi. If not I'm confident that either Theodore (which I'm not a huge fan of) and Turco could also win behind this team.



Agains it's about having the best Defense in the NHL and one of the most potent offenses. If you compare Turco behind the Stars last year, to what he'd be behind the Hawks, I suggest stop watching hockey.[/quote]

Agreed with the exception of the Theodore part.



In the playoffs the last two seasons, Theodore was pulled faster than a 14 year old boy with his first copy of Playboy.