Non-violent Actions for Social Change

[Variable]

A question was asked in the Arizona shooting thread:

When you can't change the course of Congress at the ballot box what are your alternatives?

And while trying to stay on topic and not entirely hijack the thread but answer the question (and further questions), I was kinda short and vague, so this will be the thread that encompasses all of it, and any other suggestions from anyone else as well.



It all comes back to the system we all live under, the monetary system, which is becoming, if not already is, an outdated social structure. One of the most basic insights you can have on all systems is the emergent reality of them. That when not held back, they undergo fluid, perpetual change and, if necessary, eradication. Things like technology, philosophy, knowledge, society,etc, whatever creation. What's considered common today like modern communications and transportation and current social structure was unfathomable in ancient times and the same will hold true in the future. That's the larger shell of everything. The path of progress and prosperity, what has always aligned us, the emergent nature of reality.



In specific, Pete and TSD asked about my suggestion of boycotting the military. In this system, the function of the military does not serve us, the people. Examples of government and corporate collusion are vast, ranging from the passing of

untested pharmaceuticals by the FDA to the oil lobby’s success in reverting the California Zero Emissions Law. But the greatest monetarily derived crime of government is in it's use of the military and war for the benefit of it's corporate/financial constituents.



Accelerated industrial creation, military contracts, reconstruction contracts, energy/resource acquisition ("acquisition" read: theft), high interest austerity driven World Bank and private bank loans for post war economies (which in effect make them slaves to the banks like we are to the Federal Reserve), and drug trafficking by the CIA are just a few of the highly profitable mediums that come from war. The motivation for war is three fold: Industrial Profit, maximized for the elite, resource theft and geopolitical alignment to increase the ease of further industrial profit and resource theft. That is the product of the biggest business in the monetary system, the ultimate form of self-preservation. Not change, not freedom. And as long as all the resources of the world remain hoarded for the interest of a few, this pattern of war will not end.



So massive non-participation in the operating tool of war (military) would be a message that we need to progress past this point. I've said this before, I don't doubt the individual's reasons for wanting to join the military. I can understand some people getting somewhat upset by a person pointing out these things, but it shouldn't get you to the point of completely shooting it all down simply because it offends you. I'm not attacking you. I know that most, if not all, people who volunteer to join want to do good, to serve their country, etc. But you aren't being used that way under this system.

 

[BigPete]

Here's the big rub:



While I have personally seen some of the things you pointed out to reinforce your opinion, you will have a very hard time proving any of it. That is why so many people think these notions are simply conspiracy theory.



Leaving the Arizona shooter out of it (he will be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic - mark my words), there are other people who feel this way.



There is one simple truth in all of this, we are in fact a super power and realistically the biggest one right now. Therefore, we command the largest consumption of natural goods and will do what we have to do to secure them. Do we steer the course of the international goods market (including the stock exchanges)? Probably, but again, prove the 'who/when' part. You will never be able to. Too many common place people choose to ignore the reality that some people with a lot of power and money have agendas that don't exactly get publicized and aren't always about the good of the people. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

 

[jaxhawksfan]

So back to my original question, not military related, are you two suggesting that there isn't anything that can be done? The World Order has control over what happens and we are all merely taxpaying pawns or worker bees?

 

[MassHavoc]

Here's the big rub:



While I have personally seen some of the things you pointed out to reinforce your opinion, you will have a very hard time proving any of it. That is why so many people think these notions are simply conspiracy theory.



Leaving the Arizona shooter out of it (he will be diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic - mark my words), there are other people who feel this way.



There is one simple truth in all of this, we are in fact a super power and realistically the biggest one right now. Therefore, we command the largest consumption of natural goods and will do what we have to do to secure them. Do we steer the course of the international goods market (including the stock exchanges)? Probably, but again, prove the 'who/when' part. You will never be able to. Too many common place people choose to ignore the reality that some people with a lot of power and money have agendas that don't exactly get publicized and aren't always about the good of the people. As they say, ignorance is bliss.

It has actually already begun. Just read an article written by a MD, but it was huffington post so take it for whatever you want.

 

[Pez68]

Short of the entire country staying home on election day, there's nothing that can be done. If you vote, you have to vote for SOMEONE, so the cycle is going to continue. Until CITIZENS start getting elected to office again, instead of career politicians, who are all greedy, selfish, corrupt mother *******, this will continue.

 

[TSD]

Short of the entire country staying home on election day, there's nothing that can be done. If you vote, you have to vote for SOMEONE, so the cycle is going to continue. Until CITIZENS start getting elected to office again, instead of career politicians, who are all greedy, selfish, corrupt mother *******, this will continue.

There needs to be reform to the election process.



1. Term limits on ALL government elected positions.

2. Kill corporate lobbies. Do not allow campaigners to receive money from corporations, period, only private citizens should be able to donate to a campaign.

 

[Pez68]

There needs to be reform to the election process.



1. Term limits on ALL government elected positions.

2. Kill corporate lobbies. Do not allow campaigners to receive money from corporations, period, only private citizens should be able to donate to a campaign.

Yeah, but, those in power will never put those changes through... and as such, those in power stay in power.

 

[TSD]

Yeah, but, those in power will never put those changes through... and as such, those in power stay in power.

One can dream, but yes you are right, nobody is going to vote themselves out of a job.

 

[BigPete]

I agree with Tim and Pez so far, Rob.



Term limits are huge! I can't believe the number of career politicians that stay in their seat well into their silver years.



Failure of the masses to vote will send a message that they are no longer behind any of the politicians or the process.



Those are two peacable methods for sending a message. The other big way would be for someone to pull the plug on the damned media, or find a way to get your voice heard without using the media (or letting them pervert the message).



I think polling reforms need to happen as well. Each candidate should be made to publish their past voting records on all bills at the state and national level. They should also have to publish a REAL platform. Not a bullshit copy from their affiliated party. Finally, at the polls, you should prove somehow that you have reviewed each candidate's platform and record (or resume if they are not an incumbant).

 

[Pez68]

The people in this country are a big part of the problem too though. The majority of voters are uneducated and ignorant when it comes to who they are voting for, and why. Too many people just voting "democrat" because they are lower/middle class, and too many people voting "republican" because they are wealthy.



Me? I haven't voted in more than 10 years now, because I am opposed to the system as a whole, and refuse to contribute to the problem.

 

[BigPete]

That goes back to my point about these politicians not really publishing their platform. I went to countless websites during the midterm elections and there was basically two different positions. Both could be found on the RNC and DNC websites. Some were copied verbatim. Really...fucking...sad....

 

[Pez68]

I feel I should chime in on the military subject as well. The problem with this country right now is, there is nowhere for the "average joe" to go after high school. There are no jobs to be had. Physical labor, working in factories, repairing cars, construction, carpentry, electrical, there's just nothing there for people that don't want to, or can't afford to go to a university. So many of those jobs are taken by illegals right now it's not even funny. Who DOESN'T know an electrician, laborer, carpenter, or construction worker that has been out of work in the last year? So, all those kids that graduate high school with nowhere to go, end up joining the military. Every single guy I went to high school with, or knew, that joined the military, didn't do so to serve their country, or because they wanted a career in military. They did it because they had nowhere else to go, and the military would pay them, give them benefits, and they could maybe get an education out of it...



The poor economy and lack of jobs in this country keeps pumping 18 year old kids into the military machine, and the military machine keeps on churning.

 

[puckjim]

I agree with Tim and Pez so far, Rob.



Term limits are huge! I can't believe the number of career politicians that stay in their seat well into their silver years.



Failure of the masses to vote will send a message that they are no longer behind any of the politicians or the process.



Those are two peacable methods for sending a message. The other big way would be for someone to pull the plug on the damned media, or find a way to get your voice heard without using the media (or letting them pervert the message).



I think polling reforms need to happen as well. Each candidate should be made to publish their past voting records on all bills at the state and national level. They should also have to publish a REAL platform. Not a bullshit copy from their affiliated party. Finally, at the polls, you should prove somehow that you have reviewed each candidate's platform and record (or resume if they are not an incumbant).

Failure of the masses to vote guarantees that those with fringe/radical ideas will be elected.



People that refuse to exercise their right to vote are as much of a problem as any politician.



Why be part of the solution when you can ***** about it?



Oh, a voting quiz? Really? Any other ideas for disenfranchising voters or is that it? What about those that don't read? What about those that can't read/write in English?



The power of the ballot is why this country is great. Don't like things the way they are? Run for office yourself. Pouting at home in silent protest help or changes nothing.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

A question was asked in the Arizona shooting thread:





And while trying to stay on topic and not entirely hijack the thread but answer the question (and further questions), I was kinda short and vague, so this will be the thread that encompasses all of it, and any other suggestions from anyone else as well.



It all comes back to the system we all live under, the monetary system, which is becoming, if not already is, an outdated social structure. One of the most basic insights you can have on all systems is the emergent reality of them. That when not held back, they undergo fluid, perpetual change and, if necessary, eradication. Things like technology, philosophy, knowledge, society,etc, whatever creation. What's considered common today like modern communications and transportation and current social structure was unfathomable in ancient times and the same will hold true in the future. That's the larger shell of everything. The path of progress and prosperity, what has always aligned us, the emergent nature of reality.



In specific, Pete and TSD asked about my suggestion of boycotting the military. In this system, the function of the military does not serve us, the people. Examples of government and corporate collusion are vast, ranging from the passing of

untested pharmaceuticals by the FDA to the oil lobby’s success in reverting the California Zero Emissions Law. But the greatest monetarily derived crime of government is in it's use of the military and war for the benefit of it's corporate/financial constituents.



Accelerated industrial creation, military contracts, reconstruction contracts, energy/resource acquisition ("acquisition" read: theft), high interest austerity driven World Bank and private bank loans for post war economies (which in effect make them slaves to the banks like we are to the Federal Reserve), and drug trafficking by the CIA are just a few of the highly profitable mediums that come from war. The motivation for war is three fold: Industrial Profit, maximized for the elite, resource theft and geopolitical alignment to increase the ease of further industrial profit and resource theft. That is the product of the biggest business in the monetary system, the ultimate form of self-preservation. Not change, not freedom. And as long as all the resources of the world remain hoarded for the interest of a few, this pattern of war will not end.



So massive non-participation in the operating tool of war (military) would be a message that we need to progress past this point. I've said this before, I don't doubt the individual's reasons for wanting to join the military. I can understand some people getting somewhat upset by a person pointing out these things, but it shouldn't get you to the point of completely shooting it all down simply because it offends you. I'm not attacking you. I know that most, if not all, people who volunteer to join want to do good, to serve their country, etc. But you aren't being used that way under this system.

So we sit at home hugging a tree and sing koom bay yah???? Seriously, did you just get through taking a hit of acid, because you are spewing the same crap they did in the 60s. Dont vote, defy the law ignore whats going on in the rest of the world...ignoring the world doesnt make it go away. The people that spew the whole Dont vote, dont do anything rhetoric are just as bad as the other cheats and thieves that are in office.

I have absolutely no problem with you wanting to question our leaders, and the way things are done, you have that freedom to do that...oh wait a minute, why do you have that freedom??? Oh yeah, because of volunteers, like me and several others on these boards, that went out and shed blood for THEIR/OUR COUNTRY. But you seriously have, for as long as I have been on these boards, had a hard on for the military. Dont know if its because daddy, mommy, brother or sis were in and got killed, if you were kicked out, dont know, but you seriously have had an anti military agenda since day one.

I'll put this in words even you can understand: With all of its faults, the military is a good thing, and it is a necessary evil. You can cry your whole "You are pawns of the corporate hate mongers" all you want, its crap.

I have tried several times to write this calmly, and with a bit if tact. And each time I have had to go back and delete it. Let me guess somethign here, you have a huge problem with law enforcement officers too, dont you?

 

[jaxhawksfan]

I agree with Tim and Pez so far, Rob.



Term limits are huge! I can't believe the number of career politicians that stay in their seat well into their silver years.



Failure of the masses to vote will send a message that they are no longer behind any of the politicians or the process.



Those are two peacable methods for sending a message. The other big way would be for someone to pull the plug on the damned media, or find a way to get your voice heard without using the media (or letting them pervert the message).



I think polling reforms need to happen as well. Each candidate should be made to publish their past voting records on all bills at the state and national level. They should also have to publish a REAL platform. Not a bullshit copy from their affiliated party. Finally, at the polls, you should prove somehow that you have reviewed each candidate's platform and record (or resume if they are not an incumbant).

1. Term limits

2. Get rid of lobby

3. The Fair Tax

4. Somehow make "running" for office less expensive so that every Joe,Dick and Harriet can afford it?

5. When your term is up, you go back to your "regular" job, whatever that was/is.



These are all great ideas, but how do we get the laws passed so that they can be implemented? As everyone has said, they aren't going to relinquish power voluntarily.

 

[BiscuitintheBasket]

Beyond term limits for all, Reps should not be associated with a political party. We should not be watching to see who "controls" the House, or the people that are supposed to be representing the people.



As far as not voting....the party members will always vote, and those with the most members will win.







While I do not disagree that war can be influnced by business, I just wonder who was looking to win out with Grenada, Somalia, and the Former Yugoslav Republic (and I could go on).

 

[BigPete]

Jim, we were talking about extreme actions that can be taken to change things, without having to take violent actions to change things.



That is where the ideas are coming from.



Personally, I would be happy with term limits for all, better access to the polls, and a more honest 'marketing' of the available candidates. I was being honest when I gave my example of mid term election candidates and their plagerized "party line" platforms.

 

[BigPete]

So we sit at home hugging a tree and sing koom bay yah???? Seriously, did you just get through taking a hit of acid, because you are spewing the same crap they did in the 60s. Dont vote, defy the law ignore whats going on in the rest of the world...ignoring the world doesnt make it go away. The people that spew the whole Dont vote, dont do anything rhetoric are just as bad as the other cheats and thieves that are in office.

I have absolutely no problem with you wanting to question our leaders, and the way things are done, you have that freedom to do that...oh wait a minute, why do you have that freedom??? Oh yeah, because of volunteers, like me and several others on these boards, that went out and shed blood for THEIR/OUR COUNTRY. But you seriously have, for as long as I have been on these boards, had a hard on for the military. Dont know if its because daddy, mommy, brother or sis were in and got killed, if you were kicked out, dont know, but you seriously have had an anti military agenda since day one.

I'll put this in words even you can understand: With all of its faults, the military is a good thing, and it is a necessary evil. You can cry your whole "You are pawns of the corporate hate mongers" all you want, its crap.

I have tried several times to write this calmly, and with a bit if tact. And each time I have had to go back and delete it. Let me guess somethign here, you have a huge problem with law enforcement officers too, dont you?

Chief I don't believe everything this guy says by a long shot. You are welcome to review my DD214 to see why.

But, I get where he is coming from on some small parts of his assertions. I was in the army before 9/11 and I still ask every day why the hell did we really go to Iraq. Why the hell are we still there? Are we really going to leave next year like they have pretty much demanded?



I know why we are in AFPAK, I have no problem with that. But when will that end? What have we accomplished beside a lot of dead radicals?



Here is the big question you need to ask yourself: How much fucking money have we spent in those two places, and all the surrounding countries that we have been using for the effort (Qatar, anyone?). How many contractors like me did you work with or know the past 10 years that probably would not have made so much money if not for those two wars?



Try answering some of these questions prior to just considering them indictments of your post. Dialogue Chief, its about the dialogue here.

 

[TSD]

1. Term limits

2. Get rid of lobby

3. The Fair Tax

4. Somehow make "running" for office less expensive so that every Joe,Dick and Harriet can afford it?

5. When your term is up, you go back to your "regular" job, whatever that was/is.



These are all great ideas, but how do we get the laws passed so that they can be implemented? As everyone has said, they aren't going to relinquish power voluntarily.

I agree there big time too. That was part of my reason for wanting to get rid of the lobby as well. When someone says "then run for office yourself", then who's going to support me or my family while I am doing that? Most of the people that run have the finances to devote themselves to it full time. If I devoted myself to it from 5-9pm weekdays and all-day weekends, great, I still wouldn't have the money required to get myself really noticed, which circles back to the beginning, your average joe, even your average college educated joe with a decent job and income still doesn't have the money and time to compete with 90% of the people that attempt to run for office. Also, in this day and age, without money to take that extra step, what is there to separate me from the rest of the arm chair bloggers and politicians.



Most people in office either A. Have alot of disposable time and income or B. literally started their career in politics in some form already as an aid etc etc and have a large network and people giving them money so they can dedicate themselves to it.



I am not saying its impossible, but its such an uphill battle that is almost sure to end in failure.

 

[bri]

I agree there big time too. That was part of my reason for wanting to get rid of the lobby as well. When someone says "then run for office yourself", then who's going to support me or my family while I am doing that? Most of the people that run have the finances to devote themselves to it full time. If I devoted myself to it from 5-9pm weekdays and all-day weekends, great, I still wouldn't have the money required to get myself really noticed, which circles back to the beginning, your average joe, even your average college educated joe with a decent job and income still doesn't have the money and time to compete with 90% of the people that attempt to run for office. Also, in this day and age, without money to take that extra step, what is there to separate me from the rest of the arm chair bloggers and politicians.



Most people in office either A. Have alot of disposable time and income or B. literally started their career in politics in some form already as an aid etc etc and have a large network and people giving them money so they can dedicate themselves to it.



I am not saying its impossible, but its such an uphill battle that is almost sure to end in failure.

Hun, do you have aspirations of running for office?