Now that the coping period has concluded(for most)

[knoxville7]

What would be your moves now that Ohtani and Soto are gone and not options? Who are you going after in FA/Trades?

Id stay away from Chapman and Hoskins personally, but I get that those are also glaring holes on the roster and not a ton of good options to fill them, though

id probably target Hader and give him the 100mil hes looking for. Solidify the bullpen and shorten the game by an inning.

Id probably also try to swing a MASSIVE trade with Cleveland for Ramirez, Bieber, and Clase. If i could swing that deal without giving up PCA and Horton, id likely pull the trigger

 

[Castor76]

What would be your moves now that Ohtani and Soto are gone and not options? Who are you going after in FA/Trades?

Id stay away from Chapman and Hoskins personally, but I get that those are also glaring holes on the roster and not a ton of good options to fill them, though

id probably target Hader and give him the 100mil hes looking for. Solidify the bullpen and shorten the game by an inning.

Id probably also try to swing a MASSIVE trade with Cleveland for Ramirez, Bieber, and Clase. If i could swing that deal without giving up PCA and Horton, id likely pull the trigger

You couldn't put together a package for those 3 without having PCA and Horton in it. The possible best package would be PCA, Horton, Morel, Wicks, and Shaw. You could also swap out Wicks and Shaw for Mervis, Wesneski, and Assad. Take Clase out and you could remove on of PCA or Horton.

I think the Cubs have to bite some bullets and do what it takes to get Bellinger back. If massive deferral is the new wave or he just wants the money, you either start playing their game or sit on the sidelines and shut up.

Bringing in Hader is a move I'd love.

Then it's add a starter and hopefully have space to make a move on Soto next year, being ready for 16Y720M.

 

[CSF77]

Opening day line up:

2B Hoerner
CF Tauchman
SS Swanson
LF Happ
RF Suzuki
DH Morel
C Gomes
1B Wisdom
3B Madgral

Now if you feel that is adequate then yes push to the pen.

But in the real world. Projected players that have not found success vs major league pitching end up in Iowa to prove it. Last year it was Morel proving he belongs.

So adding some depth pen arms is fine. I'm pretty sure that Alzolay has proven to be a MLB quality closer and adding vet depth to stabilize the pen is a smart move

But it is not more important than upgrading that 50 win line up.

 

[knoxville7]

You couldn't put together a package for those 3 without having PCA and Horton in it. The possible best package would be PCA, Horton, Morel, Wicks, and Shaw. You could also swap out Wicks and Shaw for Mervis, Wesneski, and Assad. Take Clase out and you could remove on of PCA or Horton.

I think the Cubs have to bite some bullets and do what it takes to get Bellinger back. If massive deferral is the new wave or he just wants the money, you either start playing their game or sit on the sidelines and shut up.

Bringing in Hader is a move I'd love.

Then it's add a starter and hopefully have space to make a move on Soto next year, being ready for 16Y720M.

i think the cubs could offer the best deal to Cleveland and not have Horton or PCA in it

Caissie, Brown, and Alcantara would make for a nice package along with a couple lesser prospects like Wicks and Canario IMO

 

[Castor76]

i think the cubs could offer the best deal to Cleveland and not have Horton or PCA in it

Caissie, Brown, and Alcantara would make for a nice package along with a couple lesser prospects like Wicks and Canario IMO

Short of Cleveland desperately wanting to shed money, those 5 players you mentioned don't even come up to half the value of those 3. I'd love it if they could pull it off, but that much talent is going to cost majorly.

 

[Diehardfan]

Until Bellinger is off the board, I'll stick with my original call from a few weeks ago.....Bellinger, Hader and Hoskins. After that its Moore and Nervis. Anyone who actually watched the games would be blind if he didn't notice that Alzolay got most of his outs getting hitters to chase.....that won't last forever. Once they force him to throw strikes, his closing days are over.....but I would still keep him as they don't have much else to work with and there are still hitters out there without much discipline.

 

[CSF77]

Until Bellinger is off the board, I'll stick with my original call from a few weeks ago.....Bellinger, Hader and Hoskins. After that its Moore and Nervis. Anyone who actually watched the games would be blind if he didn't notice that Alzolay got most of his outs getting hitters to chase.....that won't last forever. Once they force him to throw strikes, his closing days are over.....but I would still keep him as they don't have much else to work with and there are still hitters out there without much discipline.

2016 again. Decent closer addressed at the deadline gave a needed upgrade.

Jed needs to put a everyday team together first that wins games.

This is why high leverage starters and closers are in high demand in July

I all down targeting a high leverage rental but I just don't see Jed paying top dollar for a closer that won't get the lead much.


If I'm the Cubs I am talking to Cleveland.

Jed has some OF depth and Shaw who like Morel is blocked and would have to move over to a position that he doesn't excell at.

It is a good match up. They have a left hand hitting 1B. Naylor. Jed did talk to them about him already. And then expand the deal where both sides look good at the end

 

[CSF77]

An engine pushes the train along not the caboose

 

[CSF77]

Despite the “comparable if not identical” offer, Ohtani chose the Dodgers. Zaidi suggested that was likely due to a preference for remaining in Southern California, where the superstar has spent his entire career. It also seems fair to presume Ohtani viewed the Dodgers as better positioned than the Giants for sustained competitiveness over the coming decade.

The Giants have moved quickly in the wake of the Ohtani decision. They agreed to terms on a six-year, $113MM deal with KBO star Jung Hoo Lee to man center field. (The team has yet to confirm that deal.) Evenly distributing the salaries on Lee’s contract would bring San Francisco’s 2024 payroll projection to roughly $166MM, per Roster Resource. That’s about $22MM shy of last year’s season-opening payroll. They’re roughly $48MM below next year’s base luxury tax threshold.

There’s clearly still room for further acquisitions. Zaidi reiterated his desire to add another starting pitcher and a complement to 22-year-old Marco Luciano at shortstop (via Alex Pavlovic of NBC Sports Bay Area). San Francisco is among the teams to meet with NPB ace Yoshinobu Yamamoto in recent days.


So with the Giants signing Lee for CF that takes a suiter off the board for Bellinger. It seems it will be CHC or Tor for Bellinger.

 

[TL1961]

2016 again. Decent closer addressed at the deadline gave a needed upgrade.

Jed needs to put a everyday team together first that wins games.

This is why high leverage starters and closers are in high demand in July

I all down targeting a high leverage rental but I just don't see Jed paying top dollar for a closer that won't get the lead much.


If I'm the Cubs I am talking to Cleveland.

Jed has some OF depth and Shaw who like Morel is blocked and would have to move over to a position that he doesn't excell at.

It is a good match up. They have a left hand hitting 1B. Naylor. Jed did talk to them about him already. And then expand the deal where both sides look good at the end

The Cubs scored double digits a ton of times last year. The offense was not bad. They had the lead plenty.

Had they held the lead in September they would’ve been in the postseason.

Top-notch closers don’t come on the market every day so they have an opportunity to get one now if they are aggressive enough, There won’t be another closer on the market in July that is comparable to Hader.

 

[knoxville7]

Short of Cleveland desperately wanting to shed money, those 5 players you mentioned don't even come up to half the value of those 3. I'd love it if they could pull it off, but that much talent is going to cost majorly.

its #3, 4, and 5 in the cubs minor league system with 2 other top 20 guys. I dont think it would take much more than that, but who knows really

 

[CSF77]

The Cubs scored double digits a ton of times last year. The offense was not bad. They had the lead plenty.

Had they held the lead in September they would’ve been in the postseason.

Top-notch closers don’t come on the market every day so they have an opportunity to get one now if they are aggressive enough, There won’t be another closer on the market in July that is comparable to Hader.

They lost games when Cody was injured or in a slump. It was a as Cody goes Cubs go year.

That ties to his contact rate and ability to get on base and keep the inning going.

The crux of the Cubs has been low contact types.

Current line up:

Swanson .328 OBA 24.1% K
Hoerner .346 OBA 12.1% K
Happ .360 OBA 22.1% K
Suzuki .357 OBA 22.3% K

Gomes .315 OBA 19.3% K
Morel .313 OBA 31% K

Rest are part timers at best.

The best option is trading with Cleveland.

Bellinger's market is 2 teams right now. If Tor gives him his demands I don't see Jed matching. Jed will have his price point. Take it or leave it IMO.

But Cleveland:

Jose Ramirez 5.1 fWAR
Josh Naylor 2.5 fWAR
Shane Bieber 2.1 fWAR

Cubs give up:

Matt Shaw
Ben Brown
Kevin Alcantara
Owen Caisse
Jackson Ferris

This depletes the system but stabilizes the team this year and is far more realistic to add Armstrong and Horton to a stable environment vs a unstable environment.

 

[CSF77]

but after that deal Jed wants to go for it on Hader it make sense as the line up can generate runs and the rotation is MLB play off quality going in vs riddled will Band-Aids.

 

[bamainatlanta]

They should coax Jeremy Burnitz out of retirement.

 

[beckdawg]

I'm gonna break this down a couple ways. There's only 1 player I really think is worth a huge contract and thats yoshinobu yamamoto. It's looking less likely the cubs get him but I think he'll be worth the money he gets unless he gets something crazy. Lot of people want Bellinger but for me personally, with the softness of his market I'd like to see a deal that incentivizes him to opt out after like 2 years. If cubs get that sort of deal done on a reasonable contract if he doesn't opt out I'm fine with it. But ideally for me you'd just want him for 1-2 years to stabilize the team rather than long term.

Other than those 2 i feel like you're looking at trades and value contracts. There's some interesting names out there in terms of value though. Harrison Bader for example if you can get him on a 1 year deal for reasonable money is interesting because he can be the other side of a PCA platoon with gold glove CF defense. Michael A. Taylor and Kevin Kiermaier are similar ideas though KK is a lefty like PCA. Hoskins and Belt seem like interesting value 1Bs. Lucas Giolito strikes me as an interesting value pitcher. Jack Flaherty is a similar play too imo as both have command issues the past 2 seasons but have good k/9s.

And I get that a lot of people hate value signings because they aren't flashy names. But personally i love them because they offer such flexibility to be agile in your moves. If you sign a guy to a 7 year deal or whatever that guy is stuck there. If a prospect comes up, a trade becomes available or the player is just bad you have no flexibility. So for me there's relatively view players that I ever want to commit myself to long term. Having said that, if Soto hits FA next offseason he would be one. But overall, i'd like the cubs to be a team like cleveland/tampa who develops well and is flexible in FA though obviously with more money behind them as opposed to a team who's out there giving out massive contracts to players over 30.

As for trades.... it's far too difficult to say because knowing who's available realistically and what their cost is becomes very difficult. But, i think the cubs should be active trading their more fringe starter prospects for more proven controllable talent.

 

[TL1961]

They lost games when Cody was injured or in a slump. It was a as Cody goes Cubs go year.

That ties to his contact rate and ability to get on base and keep the inning going.

The crux of the Cubs has been low contact types.

Current line up:

Swanson .328 OBA 24.1% K
Hoerner .346 OBA 12.1% K
Happ .360 OBA 22.1% K
Suzuki .357 OBA 22.3% K

Gomes .315 OBA 19.3% K
Morel .313 OBA 31% K

Rest are part timers at best.

The best option is trading with Cleveland.

Bellinger's market is 2 teams right now. If Tor gives him his demands I don't see Jed matching. Jed will have his price point. Take it or leave it IMO.

But Cleveland:

Jose Ramirez 5.1 fWAR
Josh Naylor 2.5 fWAR
Shane Bieber 2.1 fWAR

Cubs give up:

Matt Shaw
Ben Brown
Kevin Alcantara
Owen Caisse
Jackson Ferris

This depletes the system but stabilizes the team this year and is far more realistic to add Armstrong and Horton to a stable environment vs a unstable environment.

They collapsed when they lost their closer.

 

[CSF77]

They collapsed when they lost their closer.

May .226 BA
June .250
July .400
Aug .324
Sept/Oct .273

If anything it shows that Bellinger was carrying the team and with our him they regress below .500 again

 

[CSF77]

I'm leaning towards paying Bellinger and making a decision on Morel. 3B or DH or swing guy.

I would want a legit 3B and am on board with Chapman and let the cards fall where they do after.

 

[CSF77]

Regarding the pen.

Major League Leaderboards - 2023 - Relievers | FanGraphs Baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Final month


2nd half of Sept

Major League Leaderboards - 2023 - Relievers | FanGraphs Baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Era for the pen was under 2 for that period

I really believe that there is speculation vs facts driving that argument.

 

[knoxville7]

Regarding the pen.

Major League Leaderboards - 2023 - Relievers | FanGraphs Baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Final month


2nd half of Sept

Major League Leaderboards - 2023 - Relievers | FanGraphs Baseball

www.fangraphs.com

Era for the pen was under 2 for that period

I really believe that there is speculation vs facts driving that argument.

you do understand how ERA's are calculated, right?

like the bullpen could of been amazing from the 4th or 5th inning thru the 8th inning and then come the 9th inning give up a run or two for a loss and yet the bullpen ERA would still look solid.

its WHEN they gave up the runs that hurt the team down the stretch. I would venture blown saves were higher than usual at the end of the season, for example.