**OFFICAIL** Bears 2024 Regular Season News & Schleisse - FTO Preferred - No ALTS! Derailing Is Discouraged!

rawdawg

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But there is no guarantee that if you gave him more carries he would maintain that YPC or YPR. Case in point when CMC had a similar carry load to Bijan ie 253 carries vs 258 for Bijan he averaged 6.3 a carry vs 6.1 for Bijan. So making a big deal out of his 6.0 YPC over a whopping 337 carries as if Bijan's was significantly better is odd.

Likewise 16.3 YPR on just 19 receptions isnt as impressive as 14.3 over 45 receptions. Particularly when the year before his YPR was 13.1 on 26 receptions. Ergo this is likely just small sample size noise.

So no what CMC did is still more impressive as he had ridiculous YPC and YPR that held up across a lot more touches than Bijan. Proving you can do something across large sample sizes is of greater value IMO.
Nobody said anything about him being significantly (or even marginally) better. I'm just saying, you using counting stats to argue why Bijan isn't worth a pick as high as CMC, is a bad argument. This stuff here is actually a solid argument.

That being said, 337 is an absurb number that only 2 players had more carries than in 2022, and Jacobs only beat that by 3 carries. No team will be asking him to carry the ball that much, if they are smart. In fact, nobody asks anyone to carry the ball that much except 240lb Henry. Other than him 1 other time, no other RB has had over 315 carries since 2014. Hell, McCaffrey himself only came within 50 of 337 carries in the NFL. And when he did have a 287 carry season, he missed most of the next 2 seasons.

It literally does 0 for me for a RB to show he can take an unnecessary beating in college. I also couldn't give 2 craps about counting stats. I'm a traits guy, and Bijan has elite traits. Up there with the top RB prospects of the last 10 years. I probably wouldn't draft him in the top 10 if I'm the Bears either but he's certainly a top 10 worthy prospect.
 

J2hotnspicyy

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Gotta say, I'm feeling pessimistic on what the Bears did with the #1 pick today. Looking at Panthers adding Chark... this is somewhat what we were begging Poles to do last year for Fields. Add some veteran receiver talent, not a Pringle or ESB. Get a good o-line in place. Panthers obviously can't replace DJ Moore but they've done pretty alright considering. It's a very good situation for a rookie QB to step into. Big hypothetical retrospective, but:

Poles is too nice I think, has a good relationship with the Panthers. He said he didn't know what Texans or Colts would do, while he knew the Panthers organization. Who cares! You're playing poker, there should be nerves involved dealing a 1st. DJ is sweet and I'm excited, but you could have landed not as ideal alternatives; Hopkins for 2nd and future 2nd, Chark/Thielen combo Panthers snatched for nothing, etc. Or JSN at whatever pick we eventually landed at of course.

I think a case can be made when trading from #1, you go the least amount back from #1, while receiving an additional 1st in return. I'm sure you could have gotten a swap, a 2nd rounder, and a '24 1st with the Colts. Which puts you at #4, with two 1sts next year. Now you sit in Will Anderson/Jalen territory worst case scenario.

Is it ideal for the Panthers, who wanted to give the big haul for the #1? No. But you're not trying to create ideals for your competitors, on or off the field. Not trying to put their mind at ease. Especially when the value of the Bears return depends on their future record. Now whoever is the Colts QB, be it Bryce (too small), Stroud (needs system in place), or Richardson/Levis (too raw), they're not going to do well with the Colts after looking at what Matt Ryan or Foles did last year. Colts are a structural mess. Rookie QB's traditionally have bad first years if they play, and the Colts are desperate. Desperate is GREAT. I think you want to play the odds of poor playing rookie QBs, by diversifying your '24 first rounders over multiple teams.

From #4, you trade back and get one more '24 1st. Arizona becomes your trade rival in this situation, and any trade partner will leverage Arizona with yourself. But its not such a threat, because then Will Anderson falls in your lap. Bottom line, Raiders/Panthers/Titans trade a '24 1st and a 2nd. I think the Panthers with Richardson/Levis are worse than with Young/Stroud. Titans are on a downward trajectory, Raiders same thing.

Basically, '23 draft we sit at #9 with two early 2nds (Kancey or Abewore?). And next year's draft you swoop in for the king's ransom: a Colts 1st, Panthers/Raiders/Titans 1st (with Richardson or Levis starting), and your own. I think that's two top 10 likely, maybe even top 3 (Marvin Harrison Jr territory). In poker you can't guarantee what's going to happen, but you play the odds. With three 1sts, you are announcing your arrival as a serious threat to the league. Maybe you improve in '23, now you're adding 3 blue chippers following that season. You open up possibility for Caleb if Fields doesn't work, you open up trading/working future 1sts.

I get a sense along with wanting to make fair deals for his trade partners, Poles also gets impatient when he can't see the next move waiting ahead. Claypool was that, and DJ less so but a little similar (him calling DJ a blue chip player). I think if you value the draft, the flexibility and top level players it opens up for you, you don't give away a future 1st for DJ, a #32 for Claypool. You trust the receiver will come, but in meantime max out the value of those 1sts by creating uphill battles for your opponents.

Can't help but feel we now risk Panther's '24 pick being middle of the road, and essentially we have DJ and some 2nd rounder in '25 as our bounty. Suddenly our huge opportunity turns out "fine" but we miss taking the league by the balls
 

Spitta Andretti

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Gotta say, I'm feeling pessimistic on what the Bears did with the #1 pick today. Looking at Panthers adding Chark... this is somewhat what we were begging Poles to do last year for Fields. Add some veteran receiver talent, not a Pringle or ESB. Get a good o-line in place. Panthers obviously can't replace DJ Moore but they've done pretty alright considering. It's a very good situation for a rookie QB to step into. Big hypothetical retrospective, but:

Poles is too nice I think, has a good relationship with the Panthers. He said he didn't know what Texans or Colts would do, while he knew the Panthers organization. Who cares! You're playing poker, there should be nerves involved dealing a 1st. DJ is sweet and I'm excited, but you could have landed not as ideal alternatives; Hopkins for 2nd and future 2nd, Chark/Thielen combo Panthers snatched for nothing, etc. Or JSN at whatever pick we eventually landed at of course.

I think a case can be made when trading from #1, you go the least amount back from #1, while receiving an additional 1st in return. I'm sure you could have gotten a swap, a 2nd rounder, and a '24 1st with the Colts. Which puts you at #4, with two 1sts next year. Now you sit in Will Anderson/Jalen territory worst case scenario.

Is it ideal for the Panthers, who wanted to give the big haul for the #1? No. But you're not trying to create ideals for your competitors, on or off the field. Not trying to put their mind at ease. Especially when the value of the Bears return depends on their future record. Now whoever is the Colts QB, be it Bryce (too small), Stroud (needs system in place), or Richardson/Levis (too raw), they're not going to do well with the Colts after looking at what Matt Ryan or Foles did last year. Colts are a structural mess. Rookie QB's traditionally have bad first years if they play, and the Colts are desperate. Desperate is GREAT. I think you want to play the odds of poor playing rookie QBs, by diversifying your '24 first rounders over multiple teams.

From #4, you trade back and get one more '24 1st. Arizona becomes your trade rival in this situation, and any trade partner will leverage Arizona with yourself. But its not such a threat, because then Will Anderson falls in your lap. Bottom line, Raiders/Panthers/Titans trade a '24 1st and a 2nd. I think the Panthers with Richardson/Levis are worse than with Young/Stroud. Titans are on a downward trajectory, Raiders same thing.

Basically, '23 draft we sit at #9 with two early 2nds (Kancey or Abewore?). And next year's draft you swoop in for the king's ransom: a Colts 1st, Panthers/Raiders/Titans 1st (with Richardson or Levis starting), and your own. I think that's two top 10 likely, maybe even top 3 (Marvin Harrison Jr territory). In poker you can't guarantee what's going to happen, but you play the odds. With three 1sts, you are announcing your arrival as a serious threat to the league. Maybe you improve in '23, now you're adding 3 blue chippers following that season. You open up possibility for Caleb if Fields doesn't work, you open up trading/working future 1sts.

I get a sense along with wanting to make fair deals for his trade partners, Poles also gets impatient when he can't see the next move waiting ahead. Claypool was that, and DJ less so but a little similar (him calling DJ a blue chip player). I think if you value the draft, the flexibility and top level players it opens up for you, you don't give away a future 1st for DJ, a #32 for Claypool. You trust the receiver will come, but in meantime max out the value of those 1sts by creating uphill battles for your opponents.

Can't help but feel we now risk Panther's '24 pick being middle of the road, and essentially we have DJ and some 2nd rounder in '25 as our bounty. Suddenly our huge opportunity turns out "fine" but we miss taking the league by the balls

You're saying all this because of DJ Chark? Guy does not move the needle, at all
 

J2hotnspicyy

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You're saying all this because of DJ Chark? Guy does not move the needle, at all

I mean, likely not. Just thinking the Panthers have the best infrastructure to succeed with the best rookie QB. Fans hoping they take Richardson for the effect on the record. I think no matter who plays for the Colts they will be terrible next year; new coaching staff, desperate owner. That's the '24 first-rounder you want. And you could have still gotten Panthers first-rounder with a worse QB in place

Those surprising "And (insert team) owns this teams first rounder" moments are always the play that seem to move a team ahead of the pack. Eagles most recently have maximized holding other teams first-rounders to get ahead. Disappointed that we didn't get an additional 1st in '24 draft, and the 2nd we got being #61. It's slightly disappointing on the draft capital front, and the possibilities that opens. Will DJ be enough to counteract that is my lingering question
 

maxhatter

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Gotta say, I'm feeling pessimistic on what the Bears did with the #1 pick today. Looking at Panthers adding Chark... this is somewhat what we were begging Poles to do last year for Fields. Add some veteran receiver talent, not a Pringle or ESB. Get a good o-line in place. Panthers obviously can't replace DJ Moore but they've done pretty alright considering. It's a very good situation for a rookie QB to step into. Big hypothetical retrospective, but:

Poles is too nice I think, has a good relationship with the Panthers. He said he didn't know what Texans or Colts would do, while he knew the Panthers organization. Who cares! You're playing poker, there should be nerves involved dealing a 1st. DJ is sweet and I'm excited, but you could have landed not as ideal alternatives; Hopkins for 2nd and future 2nd, Chark/Thielen combo Panthers snatched for nothing, etc. Or JSN at whatever pick we eventually landed at of course.

I think a case can be made when trading from #1, you go the least amount back from #1, while receiving an additional 1st in return. I'm sure you could have gotten a swap, a 2nd rounder, and a '24 1st with the Colts. Which puts you at #4, with two 1sts next year. Now you sit in Will Anderson/Jalen territory worst case scenario.

Is it ideal for the Panthers, who wanted to give the big haul for the #1? No. But you're not trying to create ideals for your competitors, on or off the field. Not trying to put their mind at ease. Especially when the value of the Bears return depends on their future record. Now whoever is the Colts QB, be it Bryce (too small), Stroud (needs system in place), or Richardson/Levis (too raw), they're not going to do well with the Colts after looking at what Matt Ryan or Foles did last year. Colts are a structural mess. Rookie QB's traditionally have bad first years if they play, and the Colts are desperate. Desperate is GREAT. I think you want to play the odds of poor playing rookie QBs, by diversifying your '24 first rounders over multiple teams.

From #4, you trade back and get one more '24 1st. Arizona becomes your trade rival in this situation, and any trade partner will leverage Arizona with yourself. But its not such a threat, because then Will Anderson falls in your lap. Bottom line, Raiders/Panthers/Titans trade a '24 1st and a 2nd. I think the Panthers with Richardson/Levis are worse than with Young/Stroud. Titans are on a downward trajectory, Raiders same thing.

Basically, '23 draft we sit at #9 with two early 2nds (Kancey or Abewore?). And next year's draft you swoop in for the king's ransom: a Colts 1st, Panthers/Raiders/Titans 1st (with Richardson or Levis starting), and your own. I think that's two top 10 likely, maybe even top 3 (Marvin Harrison Jr territory). In poker you can't guarantee what's going to happen, but you play the odds. With three 1sts, you are announcing your arrival as a serious threat to the league. Maybe you improve in '23, now you're adding 3 blue chippers following that season. You open up possibility for Caleb if Fields doesn't work, you open up trading/working future 1sts.

I get a sense along with wanting to make fair deals for his trade partners, Poles also gets impatient when he can't see the next move waiting ahead. Claypool was that, and DJ less so but a little similar (him calling DJ a blue chip player). I think if you value the draft, the flexibility and top level players it opens up for you, you don't give away a future 1st for DJ, a #32 for Claypool. You trust the receiver will come, but in meantime max out the value of those 1sts by creating uphill battles for your opponents.

Can't help but feel we now risk Panther's '24 pick being middle of the road, and essentially we have DJ and some 2nd rounder in '25 as our bounty. Suddenly our huge opportunity turns out "fine" but we miss taking the league by the balls
DJ Chark?
 

Spitta Andretti

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I mean, likely not. Just thinking the Panthers have the best infrastructure to succeed with the best rookie QB. Fans hoping they take Richardson for the effect on the record. I think no matter who plays for the Colts they will be terrible next year; new coaching staff, desperate owner. That's the '24 first-rounder you want. And you could have still gotten Panthers first-rounder with a worse QB in place

Those surprising "And (insert team) owns this teams first rounder" moments are always the play that seem to move a team ahead of the pack. Eagles most recently have maximized holding other teams first-rounders to get ahead. Disappointed that we didn't get an additional 1st in '24 draft, and the 2nd we got being #61. It's slightly disappointing on the draft capital front, and the possibilities that opens. Will DJ be enough to counteract that is my lingering question

The Panthers might be better than some think and they might end up being worse considering it takes time to adjust to a new regime, scheme and all that
 

The Doctor

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I was one of the ones that asked that and would have appreciated this response, didn't know he dropped a lot of passes. Now I know. Pretty simple.

I went and looked it up and for the volume of targets I'm not as concerned with the number of drops.

I looked it up too. the league average for drops is 5.8% for all wide outs. DJ is at 5.9% for 2022 with 6 drops on 118 targets. I'm not concerned with his drops when you consider that Adams, Tyreek and Chase all had more actual drops than DJ, and the last time I looked they are all concensus #1s. Food for thought.
 

dentfan

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Not sure what was ambiguous about it
If you were sure what was ambiguous about it, you’d have been deliberately obfuscating the argument, thereby being intentionally disingenuous. I took your argument at face value, pointed out you implied and used subtext, to which you agreed, and, now you’re chasing your tail. The intention of the writer can be lost to the reader through implicit use of language. Moving on.
as again why would I respond to you if I wasnt questioning whether he was worth it?
Because value is complicated. Worth is usually a positional value money ball thing in the context of Bijan. Virtually nobody ever questions his ability. That’s rare and usually easily dismissed, which I’m doing to your opinion on his skills.
No it is not moving goalposts as my position is unchanged. A single 40 time that is 0.02 seconds faster doesnt make one faster on the football field. As long as that position remains the same then anything else I said is in fact clarifying that position not changing it.
Right, so this cherry picking. You’re trying to argue which context is relevant. Not gonna happen.
Well of course they have different stats because of different contexts. The issue is that one of those differing contexts could in fact be that CMC is simply a better player.
Could be. I don’t agree that CMC was. Bijan is bigger, FASTER, and stronger, and may have better hands and be a better receiver.
Nothing you have said has removed that as a possibility.
Well then.. feel free to read other scouts saying the same thing I am.
And of course you are entitled to your opinion. You could very well be correct.
I am. I could be wrong, but, so could you.
It is just not a gamble
I don’t even see it as a gamble, as he’s a sure thing.
I would take for a position that is easily filled cheaply and that isnt mission critical. How many teams have won Super Bowls recently due to having elite RBs?
Last I checked, they almost all had overwhelming firepower on O. Offensive weapons are a premium. So, you can’t put a ceiling on the value of offensive firepower and playmakers.
 

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