Offseason rumors/discussion thread

[Omeletpants]

Donaldson to Braves

https://twitter.com/Ken_Rosenthal/status/1067139745078231041

Atlants has to overpay to get players.Yikes

 

[JimJohnson]

No. More so to move a younger bat that has underperformed his contract for a elder hitter that has performed up to his contract.

Seattle is looking to get younger right now and it is a good deal for them.

Cubs are in a winning window and that could end up a 5 WAR increase. At the end of the deal is another story. At this rate I’m concidering a wash on what they got anyways by then.

As far as RF. Not sure but Zobrist and Happ can man it until it shakes out.

Heyward to Happ is a downgrade, believe it or not.

 

[CSF77]

Heyward to Happ is a downgrade, believe it or not.

It has little to do with that.

Cano = 2.9 fWAR in 348 PA
Heyward = 2.0 fWAR 489 PA

That is a huge upgrade in 2019.

Heyward -> Happ means nothing.

What it comes down to who comes in and who goes. The pieces move around anyways. Now it would be more so RF vs 2B as a pivot.

 

[chibears55]

This could be a interesting Heyward trade

https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2018...binson-cano-yankees-jacoby-ellsbury-mets.html

If they trade Heyward it to dump all or most of his salary so they can sign Harper or Machado, not to add basically the same salary on a much older player for 5 yrs...

 

[CSF77]

If they trade Heyward it to dump all or most of his salary so they can sign Harper or Machado, not to add basically the same salary on a much older player for 5 yrs...

2016: Heyward 1 fWAR Cano 6.2 fWAR
2017: Heyward: 1.0 fWAR Cano 3.2 fWAR
2018: Heyward 2 fWAR Cano 2.9 fWAR

I would take my chances on Cano posting more fWAR over his contract. Even from now on. Heyward has not jelled in Chi town. His value should increase at Seattle due to his D being more impact.

I think we can expect 20 Hr's per and a .290 BA every year from Cano. With his OBA you could even play with the lead off ideal ahead of Bryant. You can't with Jason. He is a ground out to 2B too much.

At the end of the day to shed Jason you have to take contract. No team will take on 23 Mill AAV with 1-2 fWAR projected. It is just bad business.

 

[chibears55]

2016: Heyward 1 fWAR Cano 6.2 fWAR
2017: Heyward: 1.0 fWAR Cano 3.2 fWAR
2018: Heyward 2 fWAR Cano 2.9 fWAR

I would take my chances on Cano posting more fWAR over his contract. Even from now on. Heyward has not jelled in Chi town. His value should increase at Seattle due to his D being more impact.

I think we can expect 20 Hr's per and a .290 BA every year from Cano. With his OBA you could even play with the lead off ideal ahead of Bryant. You can't with Jason. He is a ground out to 2B too much.

At the end of the day to shed Jason you have to take contract. No team will take on 23 Mill AAV with 1-2 fWAR projected. It is just bad business.

Heyward younger going up on fwar

Cano much older going down in fwar

Hmmm

I'd rather keep Heyward then pay an upper 30s guy 20+ mil to spiral downwards

 

[CSF77]

Heyward younger going up on fwar

Cano much older going down in fwar

Hmmm

I'd rather keep Heyward then pay an upper 30s guy 20+ mil to spiral downwards

Cano went from 648 PA in 2017. 2018 348. He lost 300 PA and dropped .3 fWAR.

His raw was .303/.374/.471

Will it go down? Ya but everything is relative. They may meet in year 5. Which says little on Jason.

 

[Castor76]

I think if the Cubs can trade Heyward, it's going to be for a low level prospect, the proverbial bag of baseballs, or have to eat about half the remaining salary

 

[CSF77]

I think if the Cubs can trade Heyward, it's going to be for a low level prospect, the proverbial bag of baseballs, or have to eat about half the remaining salary

He has put up 4 fWAR in 3 years. Which is around 11AAV value. Cubs would have to eat 60M to facilitate.

That is why every scenerio is a pipe dream.

He would never get 23M on the open market. No team would absorb. Cubs wouldn’t pay another team that much. So it comes down to retain and let it play out which is the safe bet or push some risk and try for a trade like Cano where you know that you will get a short boost in production which takes pressure off the core.

I highly doubt that Jed would get agressive. But sense Seattle is looking to get into a larger retool effort to make the team younger it could create some interesting scenarios.

 

[brett05]

He has put up 4 fWAR in 3 years. Which is around 11AAV value. Cubs would have to eat 60M to facilitate.

That is why every scenerio is a pipe dream.

He would never get 23M on the open market. No team would absorb. Cubs wouldn’t pay another team that much. So it comes down to retain and let it play out which is the safe bet or push some risk and try for a trade like Cano where you know that you will get a short boost in production which takes pressure off the core.

I highly doubt that Jed would get agressive. But sense Seattle is looking to get into a larger retool effort to make the team younger it could create some interesting scenarios.

Seattle wants to be younger without financial burden. They aren't looking for players that have huge dollars attached to them.

 

[chibears55]

Seattle wants to be younger without financial burden. They aren't looking for players that have huge dollars attached to them.

Basically the same with the cubs..
If their intention is to sign Harper or Machado, they would be looking to dump some payroll not swap.

Doesn't necessarily mean they would move Heyward but if it were, it wouldn't be to swap his salary it would be to dump it, even if it were just X amount

 

[anotheridiot]

I think if the Cubs can trade Heyward, it's going to be for a low level prospect, the proverbial bag of baseballs, or have to eat about half the remaining salary

I think teams are still in on him, but it would take some home injury of a made guy who will be out the bulk of the season for a contender, so some team that actually believes they will hurt the cubs by getting him. The other scenario is a young team that their GM feels needs a leader. You look at the contenders, like brewers, indians, astros. they are not usually the top end of spenders. Look at the astros that lost to the white sox, they went into rebuild almost immediately. This year, they wanted to repeat to be better than the cubs, I dont think they will keep the dollars flowing.
You have a cubs franchise that probably makes a billion dollars a year pinching pennies.

 

[CSF77]

Basically the same with the cubs..
If their intention is to sign Harper or Machado, they would be looking to dump some payroll not swap.

Doesn't necessarily mean they would move Heyward but if it were, it wouldn't be to swap his salary it would be to dump it, even if it were just X amount

Cano holds better trade value than Heyward.

Here is what I’m thinking: this year they do nothing with him. His value is backwards.

full no-trade protection for 2016-18, may block deals to 12 clubs in 2019-20, may block all deals after 2020 season as 10-and-5 player. Basically they have a 2 year window to deal him. Cano is a good trade for the Cubs. And if they can make it a bigger deal where they can send 4 for 2 it makes sense. Say Russell and Heyward and 2 top prospects not on the 40 (Seattle’s choice) so Seattle doesn’t have to add. Then Seattle sends their SS and Cano in return. That point they move Bryant to RF and Baez to 3B permanently

Now I do believe this would never happen but should be discussed

But IMO what ends up happening they sit on him and try to sell when his value increases. They have a few more trade opertunites approaching before 5-10 activates.

 

[anotheridiot]

Cano holds better trade value than Heyward.

Here is what I’m thinking: this year they do nothing with him. His value is backwards.

full no-trade protection for 2016-18, may block deals to 12 clubs in 2019-20, may block all deals after 2020 season as 10-and-5 player. Basically they have a 2 year window to deal him. Cano is a good trade for the Cubs. And if they can make it a bigger deal where they can send 4 for 2 it makes sense. Say Russell and Heyward and 2 top prospects not on the 40 (Seattle’s choice) so Seattle doesn’t have to add. Then Seattle sends their SS and Cano in return. That point they move Bryant to RF and Baez to 3B permanently

Now I do believe this would never happen but should be discussed

But IMO what ends up happening they sit on him and try to sell when his value increases. They have a few more trade opertunites approaching before 5-10 activates.

I cant really agree with this. You are dealing with a lame duck player here in Cano, in his final 4 years if he makes it that far. Heyward is 29 owed the same money. I would guess that Canos last two years might just be a 50 game fielder and DH, might have to move to first or third and he probably does not have the arm for third. We dont need help at any of those positions.

I use the term your own personal work experience alot at the forums I have been at. Eventually, the guy like Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Contrares, eventually Schwarber and Russell, maybe russell now, look at this guy who does not produce making two, three, four, five times the money. They brought him here because Fowler was leaving and said he was playing CF. That did not happen. They brought him here to be the 2 hitter in the lineup, he could not handle the pressure. Eventually you accept what he did for you in the dugout in game 7, but eventually, you realize the guys performing are not getting paid, are being shown the organization expects them to take team friendly deals, and may be 3 or 4 years before they see 20 million, when Heyward should be completely useless.

Sometimes its more than the numbers on the field.

 

[CSF77]

I cant really agree with this. You are dealing with a lame duck player here in Cano, in his final 4 years if he makes it that far. Heyward is 29 owed the same money. I would guess that Canos last two years might just be a 50 game fielder and DH, might have to move to first or third and he probably does not have the arm for third. We dont need help at any of those positions.

I use the term your own personal work experience alot at the forums I have been at. Eventually, the guy like Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Contrares, eventually Schwarber and Russell, maybe russell now, look at this guy who does not produce making two, three, four, five times the money. They brought him here because Fowler was leaving and said he was playing CF. That did not happen. They brought him here to be the 2 hitter in the lineup, he could not handle the pressure. Eventually you accept what he did for you in the dugout in game 7, but eventually, you realize the guys performing are not getting paid, are being shown the organization expects them to take team friendly deals, and may be 3 or 4 years before they see 20 million, when Heyward should be completely useless.

Sometimes its more than the numbers on the field.

I see it as Jason will never recoup his contract. 184M is 23 fWAR at current market. He has earned 4 of it in 3 years. That means that he would have to avg 3.8 every year to break even. Now could he do it? Maybe. Going into the deal his avg WAR was 4.7. So it is in the realm of this talent and if he did push a 5 fWAR season I believe that they do not trade him believing that he will pay off his deal in the 2nd half of it.

Now the whole lame duck is absurd. He missed 300 PA due to substance abuse not injury. He got caught trying to keep performing at a high level.

Honestly off topic here: I don't hate that he did. Too many guys have done it. Got a slap on the wrist and had a turn around season after the slap. Then you have Jason. Seems clean because his numbers just suck in general. Sometimes I wish that he would cheat to up his game because right now he seems too clean to his determent.

I guess what I'm saying if you do it to win is it wrong? vs not willing to do it and absorb negative value over some moral code?

 

[chibears55]

Giants are dangling Bumgarner out there, wonder what theyd want in return...

They can have Heyward Russell and Quintana [emoji16][emoji16][emoji16][emoji16]

 

[Castor76]

He has put up 4 fWAR in 3 years. Which is around 11AAV value. Cubs would have to eat 60M to facilitate.

That is why every scenerio is a pipe dream.

He would never get 23M on the open market. No team would absorb. Cubs wouldn’t pay another team that much. So it comes down to retain and let it play out which is the safe bet or push some risk and try for a trade like Cano where you know that you will get a short boost in production which takes pressure off the core.

I highly doubt that Jed would get agressive. But sense Seattle is looking to get into a larger retool effort to make the team younger it could create some interesting scenarios.

The Yankees just took on Stanton a year ago at 22M AAV for them. You also just agreed with me that the Cubs would have to take on half the value for them to trade Heyward. I'm not saying there's a trade partner out there. But for as bad as he was, his OPS was better than what 12 teams produced in 2018 for their RF. 6 of those were teams either in the playoffs or looking to make a move for this season. If the trade just clears 10M off the books, it would be worth it.

 

[chibears55]

Cubs or Retirement Chavez said

I guess he changed his mind and chose $$$$ in Texas

Signed 2 yr deal

 

[anotheridiot]

Cubs or Retirement Chavez said

I guess he changed his mind and chose $$$$ in Texas

Signed 2 yr deal

Look, the guy deserved to get an offer from the cubs. Claiming loyalty to play for the cubs or retire instead let Theo show his true colors and most probably decide to hold out as long as he could and offer what was left. If they did give Jesse an offer, it was probably embarassing 2 million a year.

 

[CSF77]

Look, the guy deserved to get an offer from the cubs. Claiming loyalty to play for the cubs or retire instead let Theo show his true colors and most probably decide to hold out as long as he could and offer what was left. If they did give Jesse an offer, it was probably embarassing 2 million a year.

Chavez filled a void created by Edwards injury. People talk. That is it.