On board the Nelson train

[Probie2429]

This is the offseason of Mitch.

Pace has to give him all the tools and pieces to try to have a good season not only for Pace's well-being but also Nagy.

Taking a OLB at 8 doesn't do that. The defense is a top 10 unit as it is and will get better with much of the core being younger players as it is. Reaching on a WR like Ridley at 8 is not gonna do that either.

The better offenses really have a strong G-C-G combo so much that a team like the Patriots don't really care who is playing LT for them.

It was also the same philosophy in New Orleans all these years with Brees.

If Nelson is at 8, I don't see how Pace doesn't grab him.

In theory, the Bears could have something like Leno-Nelson-Whitehair-Long-Massie as the anchor of the OL. If Long is healthy, that's a top unit without question. Most likely a guy like Fulton is playing RG while Long is on PUP. Whoever is playing RT makes no difference in that scenario.

Howard and Cohen would have a field day with that kind of OL.

 

[bears51/40]

What WR? The all pro paul richardson who has one 700 yard season? There are no answers at WR in free agency, there are at Guard and Center.

What free agent wr's..............Like it or not Pace is going to have to flip that whole position before next season. We all know it will start in free agency, then into the draft.

Landry.....tagged
Robinson.....looks to be signed or tagged.
Watkins.....don't see how the Rams let him walk after giving up second rounder.

Second tier players to target.
Lee........a solid #2 wr who put up some good numbers over the last two years with bad QB play.
Wilson......knows Nagy and the system. Should be on Nagy's radar.
Meredith....our own restricted FA. Add a high and mid draft pick. Just give Mitch some wr's who can catch the damn ball.

 

[bears51/40]

I love Nelson....just not sure I like taking a G top 10.

Bears just hired Nelson's old coach an he's known as 1 of the best oline coaches out there.

If he's that good of an offensive line coach, he should be able to make players better an coach them up.

He also knows just how good a prospect Nelson is. Gotta think he has Nagy's ear on this one.

 

[msadows]

This is the offseason of Mitch.

Pace has to give him all the tools and pieces to try to have a good season not only for Pace's well-being but also Nagy.

Taking a OLB at 8 doesn't do that. The defense is a top 10 unit as it is and will get better with much of the core being younger players as it is. Reaching on a WR like Ridley at 8 is not gonna do that either.

The better offenses really have a strong G-C-G combo so much that a team like the Patriots don't really care who is playing LT for them.

It was also the same philosophy in New Orleans all these years with Brees.

If Nelson is at 8, I don't see how Pace doesn't grab him.

In theory, the Bears could have something like Leno-Nelson-Whitehair-Long-Massie as the anchor of the OL. If Long is healthy, that's a top unit without question. Most likely a guy like Fulton is playing RG while Long is on PUP. Whoever is playing RT makes no difference in that scenario.

Howard and Cohen would have a field day with that kind of OL.

So you say we need to give Mitch the tools the succeed, but then say Ridley at #8 doesn't do that.

How does the most polished WR in the draft who is the most nfl ready and more than likely will have the best rookie season out of all the WR's drafted NOT help mitch succeed?

You realize our offense sucked last year not because of our offensive line, but because we had no passing options? We ranked 15th in sacks given up, and a lot of those sacks were coverage sacks or mitch stepping up into a lineman. Not saying that we need to neglect the guard position, but Nelson at #8 is just as good of a pick as Ridley at #8.

But when you factor in the fact there is an all pro guard in free agency, and mediocre WR's in FA, Ridley looks a lot more appealing at #8.

 

[msadows]

He also knows just how good a prospect Nelson is. Gotta think he has Nagy's ear on this one.

You could say the same thing about Helfrich petitioning for us to take Tyrell Crosby, which wouldnt require a #8 pick and can play RT/G.

 

[bears51/40]

I didnt forget that this season, and the next decades success is about trubisky.

If it really is about mitch, you take a pass catcher at #8 in the draft. Actually, you take two, because that was the main reason he struggled last year.

I assume you are talking about Ridley. As of right now Ridley is not a top 10 prospect falling just outside that range, so it would be a bit of a reach taking him there. Now all of that could change at the combine............... or not. If you could trade down and still get Ridley and more draft picks, that is something everyone should be on board for.

 

[bears51/40]

So you say we need to give Mitch the tools the succeed, but then say Ridley at #8 doesn't do that.

How does the most polished WR in the draft who is the most nfl ready and more than likely will have the best rookie season out of all the WR's drafted NOT help mitch succeed?

You realize our offense sucked last year not because of our offensive line, but because we had no passing options? We ranked 15th in sacks given up, and a lot of those sacks were coverage sacks or mitch stepping up into a lineman. Not saying that we need to neglect the guard position, but Nelson at #8 is just as good of a pick as Ridley at #8.

But when you factor in the fact there is an all pro guard in free agency, and mediocre WR's in FA, Ridley looks a lot more appealing at #8.

injuries to the offense line had a lot to do with why our O sucked last year.

Not before we can see what Ridley and the rest of the wr crop can do at the combine.

 

[msadows]

I assume you are talking about Ridley. As of right now Ridley is not a top 10 prospect falling just outside that range, so it would be a bit of a reach taking him there. Now all of that could change at the combine............... or not. If you could trade down and still get Ridley and more draft picks, that is something everyone should be on board for.

If there is one thing pace has shown its that he does not trade down for his guy, he tries to trade up.

He was considering trading up for both wentz and marriota in previous years. Did it for floyd and trubs. He won't trade down 3-4 picks just to pick up another pick in the hopes ridley falls.

Yes, he is a reach at #8, but he is also the most polished WR in the draft.

We desperately need multiple players who can make plays with the ball. All of the top scoring offenses(pats, chargers, rams, saints, eagles, etc.) all didnt have to spend a first rounder, much less a top 10 pick, on a guard. And we shouldn't either. Hell, even the KC offense that everyone says Nagy is going to model our team after didnt either, and they had the leading rusher in the NFL.

Nelson will be a great player, possibly a generational talent at guard, but how much more of an impact will he have on the team versus someone like Fulton or Hernandez? Seems like recent nfl trends shows not much, really.

Upgrade our skill positions on offense(WR, and TE), and we will be a top 15 offense, easily.

 

[satchice]

This is why I don’t think a guard at #8 isn’t worth it.

How much more of an impact does the top three guards (#1,#2,and#3) make then the bottom three of the top 10 (#7,#8,and #10)?

First To Agree on the top three guards is going to be hard, but let’s just say they are
Zack Martin
Marshal Yanda
Josh Sitton

Those three guys are in most top five rankings in some order.

The question is how much better those three then guys like
David DeCastro
Kevin Zeitler
Richie Icognito
As far as the guard position there’s not much of a drop off at all in the top guards in NFL.

Now if you look at the top three wide receivers or outside linebackers or cornerbacks and you compare them to the #7, #8, #9, #10 wide receivers quarterbacks and linebackers there’s a huge range of talent.

There are a lot of good guards in free agency there a lot of good o lineman available in this draft in the later rounds. How much more of an impact will Nelson Avenue then these other guys who are available at a much cheaper price.




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[bears51/40]

If there is one thing pace has shown its that he does not trade down for his guy, he tries to trade up.

He was considering trading up for both wentz and marriota in previous years. Did it for floyd and trubs. He won't trade down 3-4 picks just to pick up another pick in the hopes ridley falls.

Yes, he is a reach at #8, but he is also the most polished WR in the draft.

We desperately need multiple players who can make plays with the ball. All of the top scoring offenses(pats, chargers, rams, saints, eagles, etc.) all didnt have to spend a first rounder, much less a top 10 pick, on a guard. And we shouldn't either. Hell, even the KC offense that everyone says Nagy is going to model our team after didnt either, and they had the leading rusher in the NFL.

Nelson will be a great player, possibly a generational talent at guard, but how much more of an impact will he have on the team versus someone like Fulton or Hernandez? Seems like recent nfl trends shows not much, really.

Upgrade our skill positions on offense(WR, and TE), and we will be a top 15 offense, easily.

1) Yes I agree that has been Pace's m.o. I don't expect him to trade down this year either, but he still has to look at all the deals that come across his desk.

2) If Pace did something out of the norm like a trade down. He would have multiple players on his draft board to choose from, not just one. If it were Ridley and he was not there Pace would simply go to the next player on his list.

3) With Pace's history in the first round I doubt he reaches for anyone at #8, nor should he.

4) Glad you had the Rams and Eagles listed there. Two teams that turned over their wr's in last year's off season. Between those two they added four wr's three of them free agents and not one #1 in the bunch. The highest drafted wr from last years rookie class added............Cooper Kupp third round. KC...........hell they only had two #1 picks on their entire offense last year, so it was not just the OG position.

5) Seems like you answered you own question. Now if Nelson is a generational pick he would have a hell of a lot more impact than any guard you can mention because he is THAT good.

6) Upgrade your skill positions in free agency and the draft(round two) Upgrade the OL with Nelson, and unlike a team like the Colts you would choose to protect Pace's franchise quarterback.

 

[discplayer]

In my opinion it is old school thinking that you should not take an OG in the top 10 even if he is the best OLinemen in the draft. If Nelson is there at #8 it's a no brainer because he is that good, just like the Skins taking Scherff with the #5 pick in the 2015 draft.

People keep saying this, but folks do realize that Scherff was an all-american Left Tackle at Iowa, right? Elite LT's ARE top 10 picks, and as such, he was drafted at #5 to be a lockdown LT, but turned out he was not good enough to play that position in the NFL.

While I am all for drafting Nelson at #8, can people please stop using the Scherff example to justify drafting a G that high?!

 

[bears51/40]

People keep saying this, but folks do realize that Scherff was an all-american Left Tackle at Iowa, right? Elite LT's ARE top 10 picks, and as such, he was drafted at #5 to be a lockdown LT, but turned out he was not good enough to play that position in the NFL.

While I am all for drafting Nelson at #8, can people please stop using the Scherff example to justify drafting a G that high?!

It's a point not a justification. Do you understand that at some point Scherff played every position on Iowa's OL except C. With Trent Williams a pro bowl LT already on the Skins Scherff was NOT drafted to be a LT.

 

[msadows]

It's a point not a justification. Do you understand that at some point Scherff played every position on Iowa's OL except C. With Trent Williams a pro bowl LT already on the Skins Scherff was NOT drafted to be a LT.

Yea, he was drafted to play RT.

Same shit, RT's who are dominant are taken top 10. Guards aren't.

And for your previous response, a guard only has so much impact on the position.

Also you keep saying to revamp the WR position with FA, there isnt much in FA. Alshon is better than any FA WR this year, so the eagles are not a good comparison. The rams traded a 2nd rounder for sammy watkins. Cooper Kupp was a lucky find, most rookie WR's don't contribute like he did.
I would rather have Ridley and Norwell vs. taking someone like Richardson and Nelson.

 

[Toast88]

Wouldn’t hate Nelson with the first pick in a vacuum, but it would highlight that it really was Pace’s plan to replace a Pro Bowl OL with a lesser rookie OG that cost a first—That seems like a wasteful, shitty plan to me. Like, replace-Marshall-with-White shitty.

If Sitton wasn’t worth the money, why would a lesser version be worth a first?

 

[bears51/40]

Yea, he was drafted to play RT.

Same shit, RT's who are dominant are taken top 10. Guards aren't.

And for your previous response, a guard only has so much impact on the position.

Also you keep saying to revamp the WR position with FA, there isnt much in FA. Alshon is better than any FA WR this year, so the eagles are not a good comparison. The rams traded a 2nd rounder for sammy watkins. Cooper Kupp was a lucky find, most rookie WR's don't contribute like he did.
I would rather have Ridley and Norwell vs. taking someone like Richardson and Nelson.

Jeffery is a very good #2 wr, but if you go just by the numbers a wr I like in this free agent class for the Bears is Marqise Lee. Lee's stats over the last two years are damn close to Jeffery's, Lee has a few more receptions, a few less yds and doing that with bad QB play. Just what did the Rams get out of the trade for Watkins, and Woods in free agency................solid play. A combined 95 rec for 1,374 yds. Jeffery and Smith even less. Point is there are solid #2 wr's that the Bears can get in free agency that will improve their offense and help Mitch. There are also a number of wr's who would not be a reach and are rated at or near #39 in this draft that also could help Mitch.

Cooper Kupp, just a lucky find??? How about Smith-Schuster, Trent Taylor, what about Sterling Shepard and Michael Thomas. All of them are better than the wr's taken in the first round of the last two drafts.

I would rather have Lee and Wilson in free agency then draft Nelson #1, and say Anthony Miller in round two over taking Ridley and any other Guard.

BTW you are the only one talking about Richardson.................not me.

 

[bears51/40]

Wouldn’t hate Nelson with the first pick in a vacuum, but it would highlight that it really was Pace’s plan to replace a Pro Bowl OL with a lesser rookie OG that cost a first—That seems like a wasteful, shitty plan to me. Like, replace-Marshall-with-White shitty.

If Sitton wasn’t worth the money, why would a lesser version be worth a first?

You have to think Nagy and Hiestand were on board with this move also.

 

[msadows]

You have to think Nagy and Hiestand were on board with this move also.

So youd rather spend 5.5m a year for the #8 pick to be nelson vs. spend 11m a year for norwell and STILL have our #8 pick for someone like davenport, ridley, ward, or edmunds.

The second option is a much better option. Throw the highest offer at norwell and see if it sticks. I will be shocked beyond belief if they go into the draft without having a set starter at LG.

 

[Probie2429]

So you say we need to give Mitch the tools the succeed, but then say Ridley at #8 doesn't do that.

How does the most polished WR in the draft who is the most nfl ready and more than likely will have the best rookie season out of all the WR's drafted NOT help mitch succeed?

You realize our offense sucked last year not because of our offensive line, but because we had no passing options? We ranked 15th in sacks given up, and a lot of those sacks were coverage sacks or mitch stepping up into a lineman. Not saying that we need to neglect the guard position, but Nelson at #8 is just as good of a pick as Ridley at #8.

But when you factor in the fact there is an all pro guard in free agency, and mediocre WR's in FA, Ridley looks a lot more appealing at #8.

You said it yourself that Nelson is likely a Hall of Famer at the minimum an All-Pro for 10 years. Ridley is a polished WR. No way am I taking a polished player over a potential Hall of Famer, and I don't care what position they play. The Bears are a rebuilding team. Rebuilding teams do not have the luxury of drafting based on need. They need to draft the BPA, or they will be rebuilding for a long time.

The rules are such that it's almost impossible for DBs to cover WRs for more than a few seconds. Give Trubisky the time and average WRs, and the Bears WR output will be sufficient.

 

[bears51/40]

So youd rather spend 5.5m a year for the #8 pick to be nelson vs. spend 11m a year for norwell and STILL have our #8 pick for someone like davenport, ridley, ward, or edmunds.

The second option is a much better option. Throw the highest offer at norwell and see if it sticks. I will be shocked beyond belief if they go into the draft without having a set starter at LG.

Sorta like 2016 when the listed OG's before the draft were Ted Larson, Eric Kush, Kyle Long. and then we drafted Cody Whitehair, before signing Josh Sitton late. Point being Bears have done this before. 2016 cut Slauson in March, uproar by fans, draft Whitehair before signing Sitton. 2018 cut Sitton, uproar by fans before drafting rookie OG.

 

[msadows]

Sorta like 2016 when the listed OG's before the draft were Ted Larson, Eric Kush, Kyle Long. and then we drafted Cody Whitehair, before signing Josh Sitton late. Point being Bears have done this before. 2016 cut Slauson in March, uproar by fans, draft Whitehair before signing Sitton. 2018 cut Sitton, uproar by fans before drafting rookie OG.

We drafted whitehair at the end of the 2nd round. He was the 2nd guard taken. Thats a big difference between the #8 pick. He was a pro bowl potential guard taken in the 50's. Thats where those guards normally go. Yes, I want a guard at #39, not #8. Any one of hernandez, wynn, or crosby is fine by me.