OT: How is Patrick Mahomes a GOAT

didshereallysaythat

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If Mahomes plays like he has the first 3 years for another decade, then he could be considered the GOAT over Brady. Because he is peak looks to be better than Brady's peak. Until that actually happens, then it is Brady. To be one of the best 3 QBs in the NFL every year for 2 decades and winning 7 Super Bowls is absolutely insane. And the last one at 42 with a brand new team with no offseason.
 

Bearly

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The start to his career is the GOAT. Moar SBs, Moar wins, Moar yards, Moar TDs.
1624043703794.png
 

airtime143

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No QB will ever win more SBs than Brady. Period. However, Mahomes is superior in every facet of his game to Brady, except for his brain. If Mahomes continues to play for Reid, and doesn't get seriously injured, he will eclipse Brady's career stats most likely. He will not win more championships.

I agree 100% with this post.
If people are objective and look at Mahomes compared to others in his position, his individual performance is light years beyond brady.
The filter of the past 15 years clouds peoples memories of early brady, but Brady had nowhere near the respect early on that Mahomes has.

I very much wish the old CBMB message boards were still in existence for reference when the "Nobody compares to Brady" mindset kicks in.

Lest anyone forget, in the midst of the Grossman wars of 06, Brady was WIDELY thought of as a very solid game manager.
He hovered in the 2-1 td to int ratio, bis yardage was mundane for the most part, but what really drove the narrative was wins and losses for the pats were dictated by defensive ranking.

Below is little synopsis of who and what brady was back in the first 5 or 6 years. keep in mind, Johnson and Dilfer were superbowl champs in the recent past on par with what Brady showed in 01... and the pats were built the same way.




They won the superbowl by their defense strangling warner in 01.

in 02, they went 9-7 with the defense ranking 17th in points against.

In 03, they had the leagues number 1 defense in points allowed. there was a mixed review of the super bowl- a brady pick almost cost them the game, Delhomme played the better game, but vinitari put the pats ahead with 9 seconds left.
That defense and that game left a lot of people on the fence about Brady.

in 04 they had the number 2 defense and Brady was good... but he was nowhere near the conversation for best overall QB.
His 3600 yards, 28 tds, 14 ints and 92 passer rating made no splash.
The big dogs that year were Manning with 4500 yards, 49 tds and 10 ints,
Culpepper (believe it or not) with 4700 yards, 39 tds and 11 ints
Brees with only 3200 passing yards but a stellar 27 td to 7 int year (remember, this was in the LT heyday with Marty schottenheimer as coach)
Mcnabb with 3800 yards and 31 tds and 8 ints
Green with 4500 yards, 27 tds and 17 picks.
Not to mention Favre, Vick and Warner still getting love.


05, they have a middle of the road defense again, and they got bounced from the playoffs after an ass kicking by the Plummer led Broncos... brady didnt play for shit. 2 picks and no tds by the pats until 8 minutes left in the 4th when they were down by 18.

in 06, vs the colts, they got bounced out of the playoffs despite the defense scoring twice in the first half- dillon once putting them up 21-6.
they pissed away the lead, Brady had the ball down by 4 and tossed a pick.


TL;DR, it wasnt until Moss arrived in 07 that people really started thinking of Brady as a skilled QB worthy of being mentioned in the top 10.
Even then, there was still a little bit of unease dubbing him as a top talent.
That was year one of gaudy passing numbers, and there was a solid reason people suspected it wasnt the real brady-
With Moss to throw to, Bradys tds jumped to 50.
HOWEVER- Culpepper, widely regarded a bust at that point, put up 39 tds with moss. Culpepper was inept without Randy. he goes from 39 tds and 11 picks in 04 to 6 tds and 12 picks in 05 without moss.
Many people were on the fence, thinking "look what moss did for that bust culpepper, is Brady a mirage?"

I remember the overwhelming arguments about brady being "he was Dilfer/Johnson with a defense and Culpepper with moss in 07!"
there were legit a majority of people during the grossman days that would laugh their asses off at Brady being put above dear Rex.

On an individual performance basis, Mahomes absolutely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt destroys Brady.
The question is, will he keep it up at this level?
 

Toast88

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Because he’s almost never had any adversity in his young career. He’s too good to allow very many people to get near his level on the field. He excels at everything he does and makes it look easy.

Is he perfect? No. We all saw the Super Bowl. Dude’s not a miracle worker. But killing his competition and making it look easy, especially at his age, makes it seem like damn near nothing can stop him. It’s why the Chiefs’ loss in the Super Bowl was so stunning.

Now word comes that the Chiefs are shooting for a perfect season in the first year of the 17-game schedule. I doubt it happens, but damn, would you really be surprised?
 

mecha

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Mahomes is the product of a well built team. he wouldn't be the Mahomes we know now had the Bears drafted him. nothing will change my mind. it just happened that one of the crucial components of that well built team was broken down due to injuries and it reflected in the outcome of the last Super Bowl. with as much emphasis as CCS users put on the quarterback, your appointed GOAT at the position didn't singlehandedly win the Super Bowl himself. if you can't understand the point I'm trying to make here then you never will. it's a team sport, you need an offensive line to keep you upright and receiving talent to catch the passes you throw. wait til all the contracts come up and they can't pay anyone. I don't know if Mahomes will become mortal at that point, I think he's good enough to elevate receivers like Manning used to.

I still can't believe how badly the Buccaneers defense hammered that dude.
 

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Brady has more titles than Mahomes has years in the league. Highly unlikely anyone will replicate how many titles Brady has won.

There was a time when people said that Bradshaw, Montana 4 titles wouldnt be surpassed. That Montana was the Goat. Then someone came along and took the belt away. Brady is the GOAT until he no longer is
 
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FozzyBear

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Well if you're only going by championships, which is the wrong way to consider someone the best but you do you.

Well thats usally the Trump card with Jordan when other stats dont compute to the GOAT narrative.

Bill Russell has 11 rings and should be the GOAT right? Too bad he played in the snow era and beat down tons of white guys who should have been teaching middle school PE and playing in some ymca basketball league. OR he would be the GOAT
 

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There was a time when people said that Bradshaw, Montana 4 titles wouldnt be surpassed. That Montana was the Goat. Then someone came along and took the belt away. Brady is the GOAT until he no longer is
Montana will always be the GOAT in my book.
 

Anytime23

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Well thats usally the Trump card with Jordan when other stats dont compute to the GOAT narrative.

Bill Russell has 11 rings and should be the GOAT right? Too bad he played in the snow era and beat down tons of white guys who should have been teaching middle school PE and playing in some ymca basketball league. OR he would be the GOAT
If you don't know the massive difference between the 5 starter NBA and the 22(Not including STs) NFL, i don't know what to tell you. A single player cannot dominate the NFL like they can in the NBA, which is why the NBA has historically had less parity than the NFL.

Patrick Mahomes was by far the best player in football in 2018 and lost to Tom Brady(who Mahomes outplayed) in the AFCC because of a coin flip. Far too many factors and moving parts in the NFL to determine the best by titles.

If we want to use titles, then i guess it means Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, a guy who was way ahead of his time at that position.
 

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Everyone has a different definition of what it takes to be called one of the greatest of all time. Pat's career has been too short for me to put him up there yet but the fact he has been a top tier elite quarterback from the jump off is what makes people talk like he belongs there. I get it, even though I don't agree.
 

nc0gnet0

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No QB will ever win more SBs than Brady. Period. However, Mahomes is superior in every facet of his game to Brady, except for his brain. If Mahomes continues to play for Reid, and doesn't get seriously injured, he will eclipse Brady's career stats most likely. He will not win more championships.
That is a mighty bold statement, considering Brady isn't even done yet. To be the GOAT, you have to beat the GOAT. And I am not sure how well Mahomes game translates well as he ages.

Anybody remember Terrell Davis? How many GOAT conversations do we see him placed in at his position?
 

BriGuy

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Mahomes is not the GOAT. He may be the best qb that some fans have seen play the game. But he’s got a long way to go to be the greatest qb of all time. Mahomes has more talent on his team now than Brady has ever had in one season. And some great qbs have never sniffed that kind of talent. He is an incredible qb and imo may be the goat someday. I just don’t see how anyone right now can call him the goat when he’s what a 3 year starter?
 

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I agree 100% with this post.
If people are objective and look at Mahomes compared to others in his position, his individual performance is light years beyond brady.
The filter of the past 15 years clouds peoples memories of early brady, but Brady had nowhere near the respect early on that Mahomes has.

I very much wish the old CBMB message boards were still in existence for reference when the "Nobody compares to Brady" mindset kicks in.

Lest anyone forget, in the midst of the Grossman wars of 06, Brady was WIDELY thought of as a very solid game manager.
He hovered in the 2-1 td to int ratio, bis yardage was mundane for the most part, but what really drove the narrative was wins and losses for the pats were dictated by defensive ranking.

Below is little synopsis of who and what brady was back in the first 5 or 6 years. keep in mind, Johnson and Dilfer were superbowl champs in the recent past on par with what Brady showed in 01... and the pats were built the same way.




They won the superbowl by their defense strangling warner in 01.

in 02, they went 9-7 with the defense ranking 17th in points against.

In 03, they had the leagues number 1 defense in points allowed. there was a mixed review of the super bowl- a brady pick almost cost them the game, Delhomme played the better game, but vinitari put the pats ahead with 9 seconds left.
That defense and that game left a lot of people on the fence about Brady.

in 04 they had the number 2 defense and Brady was good... but he was nowhere near the conversation for best overall QB.
His 3600 yards, 28 tds, 14 ints and 92 passer rating made no splash.
The big dogs that year were Manning with 4500 yards, 49 tds and 10 ints,
Culpepper (believe it or not) with 4700 yards, 39 tds and 11 ints
Brees with only 3200 passing yards but a stellar 27 td to 7 int year (remember, this was in the LT heyday with Marty schottenheimer as coach)
Mcnabb with 3800 yards and 31 tds and 8 ints
Green with 4500 yards, 27 tds and 17 picks.
Not to mention Favre, Vick and Warner still getting love.


05, they have a middle of the road defense again, and they got bounced from the playoffs after an ass kicking by the Plummer led Broncos... brady didnt play for shit. 2 picks and no tds by the pats until 8 minutes left in the 4th when they were down by 18.

in 06, vs the colts, they got bounced out of the playoffs despite the defense scoring twice in the first half- dillon once putting them up 21-6.
they pissed away the lead, Brady had the ball down by 4 and tossed a pick.


TL;DR, it wasnt until Moss arrived in 07 that people really started thinking of Brady as a skilled QB worthy of being mentioned in the top 10.
Even then, there was still a little bit of unease dubbing him as a top talent.
That was year one of gaudy passing numbers, and there was a solid reason people suspected it wasnt the real brady-
With Moss to throw to, Bradys tds jumped to 50.
HOWEVER- Culpepper, widely regarded a bust at that point, put up 39 tds with moss. Culpepper was inept without Randy. he goes from 39 tds and 11 picks in 04 to 6 tds and 12 picks in 05 without moss.
Many people were on the fence, thinking "look what moss did for that bust culpepper, is Brady a mirage?"

I remember the overwhelming arguments about brady being "he was Dilfer/Johnson with a defense and Culpepper with moss in 07!"
there were legit a majority of people during the grossman days that would laugh their asses off at Brady being put above dear Rex.

On an individual performance basis, Mahomes absolutely positively beyond a shadow of a doubt destroys Brady.
The question is, will he keep it up at this level?

Well that isn't fair to Brady or Mahomes frankly. If you're trying to judge an older quarterback based on the traits they're looking for out of the current crop like Mahomes has then damn near any of them will eclipse Brady's athleticism.

Mahomes got instant NFL cred because he destroyed the record books in his first full season of play. That can't be ignored. There is a reason why people went instantly to the extreme and were calling him one of the best to ever do it. Because that was the level of performance he was dishing out. Objectively.

The whole rings argument seems beyond pointless to me for ANY quarterback's career. Championships are won and lost by the entire team. Suddenly only attributing it to the quarterback is so dumb. By this token Marino wasn't one of the league's best quarterbacks when he clearly was.

There is a reason that Peyton Manning is still considered one of the greatest of all time despite being a dumpster fire of a quarterback in the post-season and literally being carried across the finish line on each of his SB championships. Because he consistently was one of the best quarterbacks in the league year in and year out. I'll take consistency over sporadic amazing seasons. That is probably one of the things I consider the most when separating tier 1 and tier 2 greatest quarterbacks of all time.
 

FozzyBear

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If you don't know the massive difference between the 5 starter NBA and the 22(Not including STs) NFL, i don't know what to tell you. A single player cannot dominate the NFL like they can in the NBA, which is why the NBA has historically had less parity than the NFL.

Patrick Mahomes was by far the best player in football in 2018 and lost to Tom Brady(who Mahomes outplayed) in the AFCC because of a coin flip. Far too many factors and moving parts in the NFL to determine the best by titles.

If we want to use titles, then i guess it means Trent Dilfer is better than Dan Marino, a guy who was way ahead of his time at that position.

Massive difference between the NBA and NFL? Hmm one plays with a round ball the other an oblong one? A single player cannot dominate the NFL? How come QBs get paid so much? How come a single player left NE, went to TB and won a SB.

You know a single player cant win rings by themselves in the NBA either. Lebron and AI did something Jordan couldnt do in the 80s. They both lead scrub rosters to an NBA finals. They lost those finals, because their teams sucked... TEAM.

Jordan needed a HOFer named Pippen, a solid Horace Grant and guys even like BJ/Paxon to step up in moments. During his second three peat he basically had a big four, depending on ones view of Kukoc. Regardless, he played with two other bonified HOFers.

Now if you want to talk individual dominance in sports like boxing, tennis, bowling, ping pong etc. okay.

You act like titles dont matter then.

So is Mahomes the GOAT over the likes of a Marino. Why? Marinos 5000 yard season was way more impressive. He did it in a time of running games, when defenses could kill a QB and a guy working the middle. Is it the fact Mahomes has a ring? I mean Marino has a 17 year body of work with consistent greatness vs 3 of Mahomes. Longevity does count.

If Marino doesnt throw 2 ints in his only SB appearance and wins, maybe he would be remembered more and have a case for being a GOAT. As is, Marino was a great player, a stats guy. Something like a Philip Rivers.
 
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Anytime23

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Massive difference between the NBA and NFL? Hmm one plays with a round ball the other an oblong one?
Strong start to make me not want to read the rest of your post
 

Anytime23

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Nice white flag. Later then
Word of advice, if you're going to go off on a rant, try not to start with really dumb shit. Especially when your prior post is comparing the NBA to the NFL in terms of how much championships matter to evaluate how great a player is. Thanks
 

FozzyBear

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Word of advice, if you're going to go off on a rant, try not to start with really dumb shit. Especially when your prior post is comparing the NBA to the NFL in terms of how much championships matter to evaluate how great a player is. Thanks

Word of Advice!?!?!?

I thought you tapped out?

So are you going to fully tap out or just deflect from my response to your response with drivel. later
 
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Anytime23

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Word of Advice!?!?!?

I thought you tapped out?

So are you going to fully tap out or just deflect from my response to your response with drivel.
ive had my fill of troll posters for the day.
 

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