OT: Is Eli Manning a HOFer?

[xer0h0ur]

Eli Manning's career playoff passer rating is 87.4. Joe Flacco's is 88.6. If Flacco lucks into another Super Bowl win, does that make him HoF worthy?

Did Joe Flacco lead his team to 5 road playoff victories and then to 2 SBMVP performances against the best team, QB and HC of the current NFL era? People want to shit on Eli Manning but the fact is that Eli had better playoff performances than his more highly touted big bro Peyton. Peyton was hard carried twice to SB wins with the only notable playoff game exception being the ridiculous comeback victory against NE to make it to the SB against the Bears. Eli never got shit on in a SB. Something Peyton did twice over.

 

[The Hawk]

Eli Manning's career playoff passer rating is 87.4. Joe Flacco's is 88.6. If Flacco lucks into another Super Bowl win, does that make him HoF worthy?

Eli is/was a good quarterback. HE was not ever a great quarterback. If he makes it into the HOF is would have to be in a weak year for players entering the HOF. His name will give him more consideration but he isn't deserving of entering the hall of fame.

 

[TishLover]

Can we trade our Giraffe for Eli Manning? :thinking:

 

[Bort]

Peyton Manning has an 87.4 playoff passer rating do you feel Peyton is a HOF QB?

Apples and Oranges.

Peyton Manning was consistently one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and went to 14 pro bowls.

Eli Manning's entire claim to be even above average is based on two postseason runs.

 

[gpphat]

Apples and Oranges.

Peyton Manning was consistently one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and went to 14 pro bowls.

Eli Manning's entire claim to be even above average is based on two postseason runs.

then don't use playoff passer rating as a criteria...if you want to use passer rating as part of your argument then say "Eli Manning has only been in the top 10 in Passer rating once in his career, if he can't consistently be in the top 10 then he has no business in the HOF" that is a much better argument than he had an 87.4 passer rating in the playoffs for his career.

 

[xer0h0ur]

Apples and Oranges.

Peyton Manning was consistently one of the best quarterbacks in the NFL and went to 14 pro bowls.

Eli Manning's entire claim to be even above average is based on two postseason runs.

So what, Peyton has been shit on in the playoffs along with one of the most embarrassing SB losses of any future HOF quarterback. On a team with a vaunted defense. He was hard carried to both of his SB wins and even has made fun of himself for it. He damn well knows he sucked as a playoff quarterback. Either you take the whole and average it out or you're just being a hypocrite to point to one player's playoff record while ignoring the other's.

 

[FirstTimer]

Eli is a really strange case. Was never a Top 5-7 guy most of his career...How many top 10 lists would he have been on year by year?

Two Super Bowls
Two Super Bowl MVPs
4x PB'er
Top 10 all time in:
Attempts (7)
Compl (6)
Yards (7)
TD's (7)
Legacy name
Aside from people being pissed off at him on draft day has carved out a niche as one of the good/classy guys in the NFL. Really well liked and respected.

I think he absolutely gets in. I'd vote for him depending what the ballot looked like in a given year but I'd vote for him and be pretty confident in it. He's no tin the inner circle of QB's all time, and IMO not even in the second tier of guys currently in the HOF but I can't say his career was any worse than a guy like Len Dawson, Bobby Layne, etc The rings help a ton though. Without those, not sure I'd put him in.

 

[FirstTimer]

If namath & Stabler are in, then he should be regardless of era

Namath and Stabler were better. That's not really the standard to me for Eli. He's a very unique case for the HOF.

 

[FirstTimer]

yes he is. the SB wins get him in. and while his stats weren't amazing, they definitely weren't bad throughout his career.

he is a much better Terry Bradshaw.

No..No he's not.

Opponent factors in BIG time on those SB wins chief. FWIW plenty of people already think Plunkett should be in the HOF anyways.

Define "plenty".............

His career Rate+ is like 97. He's not even average, he's below average. 2 lucky Super Bowl runs with a great defense that required some spectacular catches by his receivers should not get him in the HoF.

Giants defenses in those SB years:

2007 SB: 17th in points, 7th in yards. Eli in the playoffs had 6 TD's and only 1 pick.
2011 SB: 25th in points, 27th in yards. Eli in the playoffs had 9TD's and only 1 pick.

Great? Come on Bort. You're better than that. Eli was a very big part of those SB runs...

Eli Manning's career playoff passer rating is 87.4. Joe Flacco's is 88.6. If Flacco lucks into another Super Bowl win, does that make him HoF worthy?

Flacco will have nowhere near the overall counting numbers Eli does. Flacco is currently:
22nd in completions
24th in attempts
28th in yards
50th in TD's.

Again..come on.

 

[FirstTimer]

And to be clear..I'm not going to stand on the table and stomp my feet for Eli...but IMO he has more of a case for the HOF than one can mount against him...and some of the arguments in here are just....bad...

 

[bamainatlanta]

Funny, I was thinking this could be a FT thread

 

[The Hawk]

Namath and Stabler were better. That's not really the standard to me for Eli. He's a very unique case for the HOF.

I think that Namath got in because he really did represent the success of the merger between the AFL and NFL. The Jets win over the Colts was a milestone for football in general and Namath rode that fact into the HOF.

 

[FirstTimer]

I think that Namath got in because he really did represent the success of the merger between the AFL and NFL. The Jets win over the Colts was a milestone for football in general and Namath rode that fact into the HOF.

Namath was an excellent QB for his era. If you look at the raw numbers today they don't look that impressive but in his era he was good to great for about a decade.

I made a long post on this a while back..I'll see if I can dig it up.

 

[FirstTimer]

http://www.chicitysports.com/forum/...-Wilson-Luck?p=1239461&viewfull=1#post1239461

Joe Namath's % above the league average in passer rating(Just for a snap shot)

7%
1%
9%
9%
-11%
4%
9%
4%
4%
5%
-14
-21%
-11%

Retired.

Namath spent 9 of his 13 years in the NFL (nearly 70% of his career) above the league average in overall passer rating. Clearly a sign of a guy that was "average to terrible" for most of his career.

Just for the heck of it I took these percents above and below the league average and equated them to 2013 performance. League average passer rating is right about 85. So this is what Namath's career would look like in terms of 2013 passer ratings

Kaepernick
Stafford /Luck (between these two)
Roethlisberger
Roethlisberger
Henne
Dalton
Roethlisberger
Dalton
Dalton
Cutler/Ryan (between these two)
Flacco
E. Manning
Henne

Retires.

Throw in a Super Bowl, a yardage record, gray ink, black ink, etc.

Make what you will of it. Just some context to Namath's career year by year in passer rating in 2013 terms.

 

[Bearshomer]

I think he will get in, but shouldn't. He was a top ten QB maybe twice in his career and below the league average in passer rating most years while almost always having good or better receiver talent. Even in his first SB run Eli was a game manger for the most part while his defense balled.

But' as others have said, he won two SB MVPs against arguably the greatest dynasty of all time, which were two if the best games of all time, won MVP in both, and has the name Manning. Then consider that he played for a huge market teams always got spotlight, and ended up with decent bulk stats due to a combination of longevity and the era he plays in, and I think he will have done the bare minimum to eventually get it.

 

[airtime143]

I hate when people make me defend Eli, because I do think he is a little bitch...
But he has the starting streak...a big deal.
He has 2 magnificent super bowl runs against top competition.
He has an 8-4 post season record
He is 7th all time in passing tds (interestingly enough Tied with Rivers and Roethlisberger right behind the 2 of them in 9th)

I despise everything about the guy, but he is a lock to make it in...

To use another positional example, he may be the Curtis Martin of HOF QBs for his era- always eclipsed by others, rarely considered top teir, but quietly amassing really solid overall numbers that are higher in the all time rankings than you would expect.

 

[The Hawk]

Namath was an excellent QB for his era. If you look at the raw numbers today they don't look that impressive but in his era he was good to great for about a decade.

I made a long post on this a while back..I'll see if I can dig it up.

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Namath was truly a wonderful quarterback and I think that if his knee hadn't been wrecked, maybe a top five guy over-all. He might have had one of the greatest arms of any quarterback who ever played and could win a game almost by himself. But he really didn't play on many great talented teams and was limited by his lack of mobility.

I said after his career was over that if I had to choose one quarterback of all of them who had played with or before him, that I'd pick Joe Willy Namath. I'm not begrudging him his HOF entry. I am just saying that he benefited from being the face of the AFL and the union of the two leagues.

 

[FirstTimer]

Yeah. Don't get me wrong. Namath was truly a wonderful quarterback and I think that if his knee hadn't been wrecked, maybe a top five guy over-all. He might have had one of the greatest arms of any quarterback who ever played and could win a game almost by himself. But he really didn't play on many great talented teams and was limited by his lack of mobility.

I said after his career was over that if I had to choose one quarterback of all of them who had played with or before him, that I'd pick Joe Willy Namath. I'm not begrudging him his HOF entry. I am just saying that he benefited from being the face of the AFL and the union of the two leagues.

True he did benefit from it..but he also earned it as well.

 

[bearsfootball516]

I hate when people make me defend Eli, because I do think he is a little bitch...
But he has the starting streak...a big deal.
He has 2 magnificent super bowl runs against top competition.
He has an 8-4 post season record
He is 7th all time in passing tds (interestingly enough Tied with Rivers and Roethlisberger right behind the 2 of them in 9th)

I despise everything about the guy, but he is a lock to make it in...

To use another positional example, he may be the Curtis Martin of HOF QBs for his era- always eclipsed by others, rarely considered top teir, but quietly amassing really solid overall numbers that are higher in the all time rankings than you would expect.

He's one of those longevity guys. Never put up monster stats in a single season, and as a previous poster mentioned, was never a top 5-7 QB. But when you play for 13 years and throw 25-30 touchdowns every single season and never miss a start...your final career stats are gonna be pretty impressive.

 

[Warrior Spirit]

I don't think Namath's numbers were good even back then. A few percentage points above average doesn't equate to greatness. I always felt he got in more by being a pioneer type than a great QB.