OT: Top 15 Players of All Time

[clonetrooper264]

his dominance partly was because of his ridiculous tools....he really a stat padder imo...even the year he averaged 8 assists it was because he decided to take complete control over the ball

he lost to russell consistently...didnt win a championship until he had west and baylor on the lakers

i think wilt is top 10 but i just think he's overrated

no asik on your list

for shame

Not to mention that he would never come out of a game. He averaged 48.5 minutes one season. That's essentially every minute of every game...now I acknowledge the impressiveness in his ability to play in every minute of every game, but honestly, I think he just did it to stat pad.

And like Code said, the one year where he averaged 8 assists he only did it because he was determined to lead the league in assists or something like that because people didn't think he could.

Again, great amount of skill for being able to do all that he did, can't deny it, but stat padding kind of takes some of the glamour away.

 

[clonetrooper264]

how many would you stick in your top 15?

15 of them.

 

[Rice Cube]

15 of them.

Ah...but which 15?

 

[nwfisch]

Where's Rory Sparrow at in these lists?

Has to be #1

Where would you rank Kobe?

I'd put him in my top 20 maybe.

 

[FirstTimer]

Sucks the NBA list wasn't released with the vote totals.

 

[FirstTimer]

Where's Rory Sparrow at in these lists?

Has to be #1

Where would you rank Kobe?

I'd put him in my top 20 maybe.

Kobe is likely in the 10-15 area at worst.

 

[Rice Cube]

He boned a lot of fat white chicks. If that isn't "stat padding", I don't know what is.

Hey man...a point is a point, and poon is poon.

 

[FirstTimer]

Rory,

Where do you rank Moses all time among centers?

Wilt, Kareem, Moses?

 

[Rice Cube]

Rory,

Where do you rank Moses all time among centers?

Wilt, Kareem, Moses?

For some reason I always thought Moses Malone was a power forward masquerading as a center.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

But he clowned Russell..a lot. Going for 28 and 28 against him 55 rebounds against him. I think Russell being on the better team and holding that against Wilt is a bit much.

Wilt was a complete asshole in a lot of ways but Dude was so dominant that it's tough to leave him out of the Top 5..let alone saying he's Top 10.

but was russell actually on better teams? its debatable

russell played with 4 members of the top 50...wilt played with 6 from 60-73

wilt got traded twice as well..although this doesnt hold much weight
considering shaq got traded a bunch of times

 

[Rice Cube]

I think if the league had to change the rules because of Wilt Chamberlain, then there's only so much he can be overrated.

Opinions, I has them!

 

[FirstTimer]

but was russell actually on better teams? its debatable

russell played with 4 members of the top 50

I think that' a bit mipic to view it that way. Wilt didn't play with all those guys at once. Plus Just like people point out with taking the Bulls over the Heat..the Celtics were deeper and much better coached.

 

[FirstTimer]

Being an innovator does not automatically make you a top 10 player until time itself ends. Players like Kobe Bryant have passed Oscar Robertson by. Oscar Robertson put up the stats that he did because he had the ball in his hands at all times (scoring and assisting the vast majority of his team's points), playing in a fast-paced era (which inflated his numbers, as well), and playing in an era with much less talent in general than the era's post-ABA merger.

Was he a great player? Obviously. But was he better than Larry Bird (who is arguably a better scorer, passer, and rebounder than Robertson). Bird led a team to three championships in a more competitive era while Robertson has one championship as the second best player on his own team? Robertson sure was not better than Magic or Kareem either.

This claim that Robertson is a top 5 player lock-in is baseless.

Rory, please address.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Ah...but which 15?

Wasn't the original question.

 

[FirstTimer]

Holding it against Oscar that he had the ball all the time is ridiculous. Who else should haev had the ball? Saying that era was less competetive is hilarious. You had droves of great NBA talent playing in the 60's. Was it the same game it is now? No. But neither was the NFl yet Jim Brown is constantly seen as one of the best to ever play the game.

Your argument against Oscar Robertson basically boils down to that he had the ball alot......and played 40 years ago. Incredibley weak.

 

[Rice Cube]

Wasn't the original question.

Semantics.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think that' a bit mipic to view it that way. Wilt didn't play with all those guys at once. Plus Just like people point out with taking the Bulls over the Heat..the Celtics were deeper and much better coached.

actually not my own work, but i found it interesting
In 1960 Wilt played with Paul Arizin (10x AS) Lenny Wilkens, Tom Gola (5x AS, HoF), Guy Rodgers (4x AS)
In 61, Wilt had the same team, lost to a lower seed.
In 62, Same team, missed the NBA Finals
In 63, same core again, goes 31-49.
In 64, This time, Wilt gains future HoF Nate Thurmond, loses to Russell and the no names ( No Celtic on 1st Team All NBA) in the finals.
In 65, No Cousy, No Ramsey, No Heinsohn and Russell and Havlicek anchor the team. Wilt traded for 30 cents on the dollar. New team has Hal Greer (10x AS), Lucious Jackson (AS that year), Chet Walker (7x AS), Larry Costello (6x AS). "HAVLICEK STOLE THE BALL!"
In 66, Auerbachs final year, only Russell and Havlicek remain from Celtics core. Boston tops Wilt anyway despite Wilt's Philly team having more wins in the regular season.
In 67, Wilt finally tops Russell with his strongest team against Russell's weakest in his first year as player coach.
In 68, Philly finishes 8 games better than the Celtics, Boston comes back from 3-1 down in the Eastern Finals, wins title. Wilt then traded to LA.
In 69, Boston finishes 4th in the East and somehow makes it to the NBA Finals against Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Wilt and the rest of the Lakers. Russell wins #11

also, after russell left, the celtics missed the playoffs a couple of times and before that hadnt won jack

two years after wilt left philly they went to the finals(actually by then they were in san fran)

perhaps red did give boston an advantage...or perhaps it was that russell just knew how to win more than wilt

 

[FirstTimer]

Fair points and good find if it's true.

Frankly though, based on players...if you were going to start a team with either Russell or Wilt..who do you take? And as I already have pointed out..Wilt pretty much dominated Russell one on one.

 

[Rice Cube]

Fair points and good find if it's true.

Frankly though, based on players...if you were going to start a team with either Russell or Wilt..who do you take? And as I already have pointed out..Wilt pretty much dominated Russell one on one.

I think the argument re: Wilt kind of took a turn where now you're arguing who the best teammate was, not the best player. I don't think they're necessarily the same thing.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

Fair points and good find if it's true.

Frankly though, based on players...if you were going to start a team with either Russell or Wilt..who do you take? And as I already have pointed out..Wilt pretty much dominated Russell one on one.

so wilt averaged 28 and 28 vs. russell..i admit thats impressive...the rebounding more so than anything...he averaged 30 and 23 for his career

wilt SEEMS like the obvious choice because of his tools...but i'd be hard pressed not to go for someone who imo was not only great on defense and a great player, but i think he was better as a leader

he wasnt a great offensive player..but his defense was absolutely ridiculous and he made scores when needed

jmo though