OT: Who has a better year: Fields on the Jets or Rodgers on the Steelers?

[HansGruber]

Yall are nuts if you think fields has a good year. Guy is TRASH...

 

[--CyBear--]

The correct answer to this poll is...

Caleb Williams.

 

[Moses Moreno]

The correct answer to this poll is...

Caleb Williams.

 

[--CyBear--]

Haul you ass over the the Jets board.

 

[Moses Moreno]

Haul you ass over the the Jets board.

I'm here to let y'all know that this Jets regime is legit!

DK got slightly more than Wilson did and IMO Wilson is closer to Chase/Jefferson than he is to DK. DK is just not fluid enough to be a top end WR1.

 

[--CyBear--]

I'm here to let y'all know that this Jets regime is legit!

DK got slightly more than Wilson did and IMO Wilson is closer to Chase/Jefferson than he is to DK. DK is just not fluid enough to be a top end WR1.

Great. Don't really care that about the Steelers or Rodgers.

Since Jets team is legit and votes are in ion the OP, how about we make this thread Bear related.

Caleb vs Justin?

Caleb

 

[Moses Moreno]

Great. How about Caleb vs Justin?

No need to go there. Justin vs Aaron is fun enough.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1944900356548563353

Wilson would have demanded a trade had they kept Aaron, instead he's extended on a decent contract with Justin.

 

[--CyBear--]

No need to go there. Justin vs Aaron is fun enough.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1944900356548563353

Wilson would have demanded a trade had they kept Aaron, instead he's extended on a decent contract with Justin.

A week before camp. Normal contract negotiation stuff. Not like he took less to play with Fields.

 

[Moses Moreno]

A week before camp. Normal contract negotiation stuff. Not like he took less to play with Fields.

He literally wanted nothing to do with ever playing with the Jets ever again because of Rodgers.

This is one of the best young WRs in the game and he was going to ask to leave because Rodgers was a cancer. The dynamic of the team is now significantly better and Fields absolutely has something to do with it. Say what you want - the team from 2022-23 teams were pretty solidly led by Fields despite some really weird circumstances.

 

[--CyBear--]

He literally wanted nothing to do with ever playing with the Jets ever again because of Rodgers.

This is one of the best young WRs in the game and he was going to ask to leave because Rodgers was a cancer. The dynamic of the team is now significantly better and Fields absolutely has something to do with it. Say what you want - the team from 2022-23 teams were pretty solidly led by Fields despite some really weird circumstances.

I don't doubt that he didn't like Rodgers or that he preferred to play with his old Ohio State buddy but those contract details don't represent doing anyone a favor. Fields signed in early March. It's now mid July and Wilson also held out from mandatory minicamp with Justin. This was about getting an early extension. I don't doubt Fields helped him not demand a trade but really, he was under contract for 2 more years. He just held out to get the highest contract of any WR after 3 years in the league. That's not doing anyone a favor.

 

[mbison]

How'd the Eagles win the Super Bowl last year?

It has to be Aaron Rodgers. He threw for nearly 4,000 yards last year, even coming off an injury. I expected him to be, at the very least, a top 12–15 QB this season.

I don’t understand why so many people have so much faith in Justin Fields. He’s been on three different teams in four years and is still a below-average passer. No team besides the Jets even thinks his an NFL starter anymore. He looks confused when going through his progressions, and the offensive coordinator can’t keep calling one-read plays. He’s also horrible with the game on the line in the 4th quarter. he always fumbles. He cannot be trusted in a 2 minute drill.

Early on, defenses were caught off guard by his running ability, but now there’s enough game film on him to contain it. That 4–2 stretch he had with Pittsburgh? It was mostly because the defense held opponents to under 12 points per game. Kenny Pickett won the same way the year before

Justin Fields is no better than Marcus Marreto or other so called Running QBs. He will be on the bench by the end of the season and will probably be cut next year and on his 4th team. Who will you blame then?

 

[msadows]

It has to be Aaron Rodgers. He threw for nearly 4,000 yards last year, even coming off an injury. I expected him to be, at the very least, a top 12–15 QB this season.

I don’t understand why so many people have so much faith in Justin Fields. He’s been on three different teams in four years and is still a below-average passer. No team besides the Jets even thinks his an NFL starter anymore. He looks confused when going through his progressions, and the offensive coordinator can’t keep calling one-read plays. He’s also horrible with the game on the line in the 4th quarter. he always fumbles. He cannot be trusted in a 2 minute drill.

Early on, defenses were caught off guard by his running ability, but now there’s enough game film on him to contain it. That 4–2 stretch he had with Pittsburgh? It was mostly because the defense held opponents to under 12 points per game. Kenny Pickett won the same way the year before

Justin Fields is no better than Marcus Marreto or other so called Running QBs. He will be on the bench by the end of the season and will probably be cut next year and on his 4th team. Who will you blame then?

His advanced stats were awful, fields was better in most of those. His EPA/play was bad and lower than fields.

Yardage/TD's dont matter when you are a major reason your team is losing. This is like pointing to russ westbrick putting up a triple double while his team loses by 20 points

Its the same point many on here have about caleb. You look at his stats and 3600 yards and 20tds / 6ints looks great. Then you actually watch the games and realize he struggled a ton and its a big reason the bears were not good last year.

 

[mbison]

His advanced stats were awful, fields was better in most of those. His EPA/play was bad and lower than fields.

Yardage/TD's dont matter when you are a major reason your team is losing. This is like pointing to russ westbrick putting up a triple double while his team loses by 20 points

Its the same point many on here have about caleb. You look at his stats and 3600 yards and 20tds / 6ints looks great. Then you actually watch the games and realize he struggled a ton and its a big reason the bears were not good last year.

What exactly are “advanced stats”? Honestly, it sounds like cherry-picking to me.

Last season in Pittsburgh, Fields wasn’t asked to do much besides not turn the ball over. Meanwhile, Aaron Rodgers had to carry an entire team—and he was coming off an injury, shaking off the rust. When healthy, Rodgers is clearly still a capable quarterback.

Justin Fields, on the other hand, has consistently been one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Outside of running the football—and fumbling—he hasn’t shown much. At one point, he literally had a streak of 30 fumbles. That’s not just bad luck; that’s a problem.

There’s a reason no team offered him a starting job this offseason except the Jets, and even then, it was basically a one-year “prove it” deal—because they had no better options. And let’s be real: this Jets roster is worse than both the Bears and Steelers teams he was on. So how is he supposed to suddenly play better now?

Defenses have plenty of film on him at this point. Mike Tomlin saw that last year. The Steelers’ offense was ranked 28th when Fields was starting. Tomlin knew they couldn’t beat good teams unless they improved offensively—which is why they went back to Russ.

Also, let’s not ignore the fact that Fields has never won a game when his defense gives up more than 18 points. That says a lot. His time as a starting QB is likely coming to an end, and when it does, we can finally put the debate about Fields being a “franchise quarterback” to rest. And his cult will have to go away

 

[Moses Moreno]

I don't doubt that he didn't like Rodgers or that he preferred to play with his old Ohio State buddy but those contract details don't represent doing anyone a favor. Fields signed in early March. It's now mid July and Wilson also held out from mandatory minicamp with Justin. This was about getting an early extension. I don't doubt Fields helped him not demand a trade but really, he was under contract for 2 more years. He just held out to get the highest contract of any WR after 3 years in the league. That's not doing anyone a favor.

If he hit the open market he'd get significantly more so yes and extension does help the team, even if it's commonplace.

What exactly are “advanced stats”? Honestly, it sounds like cherry-picking to me.

Last season in Pittsburgh, Fields wasn’t asked to do much besides not turn the ball over. Meanwhile, Aaron Rodgers had to carry an entire team—and he was coming off an injury, shaking off the rust. When healthy, Rodgers is clearly still a capable quarterback.

Justin Fields, on the other hand, has consistently been one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Outside of running the football—and fumbling—he hasn’t shown much. At one point, he literally had a streak of 30 fumbles. That’s not just bad luck; that’s a problem.

There’s a reason no team offered him a starting job this offseason except the Jets, and even then, it was basically a one-year “prove it” deal—because they had no better options. And let’s be real: this Jets roster is worse than both the Bears and Steelers teams he was on. So how is he supposed to suddenly play better now?

Defenses have plenty of film on him at this point. Mike Tomlin saw that last year. The Steelers’ offense was ranked 28th when Fields was starting. Tomlin knew they couldn’t beat good teams unless they improved offensively—which is why they went back to Russ.

Also, let’s not ignore the fact that Fields has never won a game when his defense gives up more than 18 points. That says a lot. His time as a starting QB is likely coming to an end, and when it does, we can finally put the debate about Fields being a “franchise quarterback” to rest. And his cult will have to go away

A streak of 30 fumbles? What the hell are you talking about?

The Steelers wanted Fields, he picked the Jets.

The advanced stats come from here:

rbsdm.com/stats

Rodgers has been cooked since 2022.

Through 6 games the Steelers were 13th in drop back EPA/play and 23rd in rushing EPA/play. If you want there's plenty of posts in this thread discussing what that all means but feel free to hype up Rodgers total yards. That roster is much better than a 5-12 team - we've discussed it in this thread and I have better shit to do than to write the same posts again.

The season is almost here, this sport isn't THAT complicated and this one is pretty obvious.

 

[msadows]

What exactly are “advanced stats”? Honestly, it sounds like cherry-picking to me.

Last season in Pittsburgh, Fields wasn’t asked to do much besides not turn the ball over. Meanwhile, Aaron Rodgers had to carry an entire team—and he was coming off an injury, shaking off the rust. When healthy, Rodgers is clearly still a capable quarterback.

Justin Fields, on the other hand, has consistently been one of the worst starting QBs in the league. Outside of running the football—and fumbling—he hasn’t shown much. At one point, he literally had a streak of 30 fumbles. That’s not just bad luck; that’s a problem.

There’s a reason no team offered him a starting job this offseason except the Jets, and even then, it was basically a one-year “prove it” deal—because they had no better options. And let’s be real: this Jets roster is worse than both the Bears and Steelers teams he was on. So how is he supposed to suddenly play better now?

Defenses have plenty of film on him at this point. Mike Tomlin saw that last year. The Steelers’ offense was ranked 28th when Fields was starting. Tomlin knew they couldn’t beat good teams unless they improved offensively—which is why they went back to Russ.

Also, let’s not ignore the fact that Fields has never won a game when his defense gives up more than 18 points. That says a lot. His time as a starting QB is likely coming to an end, and when it does, we can finally put the debate about Fields being a “franchise quarterback” to rest. And his cult will have to go away

EPA/play is not cherry picking, its a stat that our very own ben johnson uses and brought up

It is similar to baseball war, and is essentially the points a player adds per play.

Caleb, for example, put up nice stats but his epa/play backed up exactly how poorly he performed this past season

I am not defending fields, but thinking rodgers is good is false. He is not good and will get tomlin fired this season

I also dont agree with you on the jets roster, that oline, run game and defense will be better than the steelers will be this year. I dont expect them to make the playoffs but i expect the steelers to miss out on them too

 

[--CyBear--]

If he hit the open market he'd get significantly more so yes and extension does help the team, even if it's commonplace.

There's no open market. He's was under contract for another 2 years at the Jets' option if they chose. His yearly money on the extension is top 6 money per year. How much more would you expect, LOL? He's getting the 5th or 6th highest per year deal of all WRs.

Metcalf is also getting paid to be that tweener and not just a WR.

 

[--CyBear--]

I'd also like to know what determines a better year? Passing? Total Yards? Passer rating? etc.

 

[Moses Moreno]

There's no open market. He's was under contract for another 2 years at the Jets' option if they chose. His yearly money on the extension is top 6 money per year. How much more would you expect, LOL? He's getting the 5th or 6th highest per year deal of all WRs.

Metcalf is also getting paid to be that tweener and not just a WR.

Players routinely give teams a discount for the security of an early extension. Regardless, this is pointless semantics - he wanted nothing to do with Rodgers, he signed with the team after changing his tune in part because they brought in his dude.

I'd also like to know what determines a better year? Passing? Total Yards? Passer rating? etc.

Jets were 5-12 last year, Steelers were 10-7 - if the Jets win more games than the Steelers that's clearly a "better year" (assuming health). But there are stats out there that measure overall QB impact beyond just passing yards that have been discussed plenty in this thread.

 

[Moses Moreno]

Pretty good stuff here once they start talking about DK and Rodgers fitting (they don't). Starts at about 31 min or so and ends at about 40min.

 

[--CyBear--]

Players routinely give teams a discount for the security of an early extension. Regardless, this is pointless semantics - he wanted nothing to do with Rodgers, he signed with the team after changing his tune in part because they brought in his dude.


Jets were 5-12 last year, Steelers were 10-7 - if the Jets win more games than the Steelers that's clearly a "better year" (assuming health). But there are stats out there that measure overall QB impact beyond just passing yards that have been discussed plenty in this thread.

So open to interpretation. Got it. How about total yards, run plus pass, with passer rating as a sort of tie breaker if it's within 250 yards and add CW to the mix.