OT: Who has a better year: Fields on the Jets or Rodgers on the Steelers?

[--CyBear--]

The second half of 2023 play style was perfectly sustainable.

Occasional zone read option to keep the defense honest, feed the hell out of your WR1 and stay away from 3rd & long. I think the OL will give him time for the first time in his career.

He missed 4.5 games in 2023. 1/2 of those in the 2nd half of the season. You know, the year he was 5-8 and his backup was 2-2. He was 4-3 after he came back.

 

[--CyBear--]

How'd the Eagles win the Super Bowl last year?

With Fangio, the best defense in the league and the tush push? Hurts ran for 630 yards and passed at a 69% completion average.

 

[Moses Moreno]

He missed 4.5 games in 2023. 1/2 of those in the 2nd half of the season. You know, the year he was 5-8 and his backup was 2-2. He was 4-3 after he came back.

Matt Eberflus showed everybody exactly who he was in 2023.

With Fangio, the best defense in the league and the tush push? Hurts ran for 630 yards and passed at a 69% completion average.

Eagles had an unstoppable rushing attack. Having a plus RB, plus OL and plus Rushing QB is something that makes the rest of the offense easy. The Jets are far more dangerous of an offense than the general public currently believes.

 

[Washington]

How'd the Eagles win the Super Bowl last year?

By scoring more points than KC?

 

[Zvbxrpl]

Passer? Barring injury, Rodgers will throw for 3000+ passing yards, even in his diminished state.

Fields hasn't ever come close to that in the NFL, and based on how he's now on his 3rd team in what, 5 years? He's going to figure out how to see the open guy now?

 

[Moses Moreno]

By scoring more points than KC?

Yes. By having an overpowered rushing attack that's high volume and high efficiency. Led the NFL in time of possession which gave their defense extra time to sit on the bench and rest.

That's what I project the Jets will have, not quite Super Bowl championship level but that's an offense designed to win.

 

[Canth]

The Packers got the timeline correct on Rodgers, he's been finished for 3 years.

He looks brain addled. He doesn't get the ball out. He can't run. He gets frustrated, he can't make the throws he used to. He's become a statue who collapses as the pocket does, reminiscent of Cutler.

Tomlin doesn't miss the playoffs but this might be the year. He certainly can't get them over the hump and beat a good 3 phase football team anymore.

He's also delusional and possibly did too many psychedelics.

Fields doesn't have to do alot to be better, j think him and Hall could turn in 2000+ rushing yards easy on shared snaps.

I would argue they missed a bit, but I will admit it's a bit of hindsight 20/20 vision. Back in the 2021 draft, there were strong rumors they could have gotten 3 1st round picks for Rodgers from the Broncos. Where could they be now if they had all those picks in terms of building around Love? Or even really knowing what they truly have in Love before they handed him that contract?

I know Rodgers got the MVP in 2021, but Green Bay didn't even win a playoff game and they could not move the ball or score in the game against the 49ers - at home no less.

So, was it really worth it? To wait 2 years and only get a 2nd while also not winning any playoff games in the mean time?

 

[--CyBear--]

Yes. By having an overpowered rushing attack that's high volume and high efficiency. Led the NFL in time of possession which gave their defense extra time to sit on the bench and rest.

That's what I project the Jets will have, not quite Super Bowl championship level but that's an offense designed to win.

so Hurts having 18 TDs , 5 INTs and a 106 rating is arbitrary? Got it. A running attack works much better when you're keeping the safeties honest. He also had his highest air yards per attempt last year .

How was the Eagles running game in said SuperBowl? 3 YPC while Hurts had a 120 passer rating and most of those yards were passing scrambles. Look, I believe that Hurts' legs are a significant factor here but it's his improved passing that's completed this picture. He threw multiple balls to 5 different catchers in that game. You also need to be able to pick em apart when they stack a line against your running game. I truly hope JF gets there but it's not been his M. O. to spread it around like that.

 

[Moses Moreno]

so Hurts having 18 TDs , 5 INTs and a 106 rating is arbitrary? Got it. A running attack works much better when your keeping the safeties honest. He also had his highest air yards per attempt last year .

How was the Eagles running game in said SuperBowl? 3 YPC while Hurts had a 120 passer rating and most of those yards were passing scrambles. Look, I believe that Hurts' legs are a significant factor here but it's his improved passing that's completed this picture. He threw multiple balls to 5 different catchers in that game. You also need to be able to pick em apart when they stack a line against your running game. I truly hope JF gets there but it's not been his M. O. to spread it around like that.

Hurts had 194 ypg, Fields had 197 ypg - 16 TDs to 9 INTs. Both teams led with the run, the Eagles had 621 rushing attempts which was nearly 100 more than the second most Ravens. 2023 Bears were second in the NFL in total rushing attempts.

The Jets are going to run the shit out of the ball and I'm pretty sure they're going to do it efficiently, not sure what you're trying to argue but the Eagles won the Super Bowl following that exact offensive gameplan.

 

[--CyBear--]

Hurts had 194 ypg, Fields had 197 ypg - 16 TDs to 9 INTs. Both teams led with the run, the Eagles had 621 rushing attempts which was nearly 100 more than the second most Ravens. 2023 Bears were second in the NFL in total rushing attempts.

The Jets are going to run the shit out of the ball and I'm pretty sure they're going to do it efficiently, not sure what you're trying to argue but the Eagles won the Super Bowl following that exact offensive gameplan.

Fields had 110 YPG last year, actually about 184 in the games he started. You keep jumping around. 1st it's about how to win the SB and then it's season stats and you just showed Field wasn't even 2-1 in TD to INT ratio in the year you did note. That's not ball control. Neither is 1 fumble per start. Here's another interesting list with 1 name suspiciously absent.

NFL Sacked % Active Leaders | Pro-Football-Reference.com

1. Patrick Mahomes (4.23%), 2. Josh Allen (4.95%), 3. Derek Carr (4.98%), 4. Jared Goff (5.07%), 5. Tua Tagovailoa (5.17%),

www.pro-football-reference.com

Look, Fields deserves to be in the NFL but he's shown himself to be a journeyman starter so far. If you want to look at stats, Fields' averages are remarkably similar to his backup in NY, Tyrod Taylor. That's not a bad thing as Taylor has shown he deserves to be in a very small club for well over a decade. Perhaps Fields can become even more but he isn't that until he actually does it and I sincerely hope he does. But hope doesn't win games.

These are TT's stats from his 5th year, a decade back and 14 starts. If The Jets D and run game are VG, that may be enough. I think he can do this but he hasn't yet.

63.7

3,035

20

6

99.4

You know who led the Eagles to a SB win last year? Fangio and the lines were the difference makers, same as he was for the Bear when we were top 2 in both points and scoring allowed like the Eagles were last year. You know, the year that Mitch took us to to the playoffs. Philly had the best lines in the NFL last year. It's also been proven that there's many ways to win a SB when you're pretty great overall.

Look, I'm thrilled Fields finally got well deserved pay and should be in a VG situation but after 4 years, it's time to stop projecting and see if he can actually step it up. I hope he does. Thank God that the Jets drafted a new RT.

 

[DefNextYear]

It depends on how you define success, but I expect the Jets to be a bad team.

 

[Moses Moreno]

This is the easiest shit to predict, Fields is the engine for a bigtime rushing attack. Having a zone read QB (and plus OLs) helped make both Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry have dominant seasons where their rushing efficiency got bumped up dramatically.

Player	YPC	Attempts Per Game
Saquon 2023	3.9	17.6
Saquon 2024	5.8	21.6
Henry 2023	4.2	16.5
Henry 2024	5.9	19.1

Both RBs went to teams that used them in a zone read rushing attack and had their YPC bump up by nearly 2 yards per fucking carry while upping their usage rate.

Going into the 2024 season, there were still positive thoughts regarding Luke Getsy and his ability to generate a rushing attack with his playcalling, I'll look at how Getsy impacted the Raiders rushing attack and Fields impacted the Steelers rushing attack despite them never really using the zone read option.

Steelers Weeks 1-6 (w/ Justin, no ZRO): -.109


Steelers Weeks 7-18 (without Justin): Rushing EPA -.133


Raiders Weeks 1-9 (Getsy can't scheme shit era): -.372 (by far last in the NFL)


Now if we look at the 2024 Bears vs the 2023 & 2022 Bears, they drastically lost their ability to effectively run the ball. I'll add in Passing EPA per year just for reference and total rushing attempts because it's important to consider volume when taking this all into consideration. High volume & high efficiency rushing attack = low risk, hard to stop offense = winning football

Team & Year	Rushing EPA (rank)	Rushing Attempts (rank)	Dropback EPA (rank)
Bears 2022	-.004 (7)	558 (2)	-.070 (27)
Bears 2023	-.045 (9)	534 (2)	-.057 (24)
Bears 2024	-.142 (26)	431 (23)	-.036 (25)

So we see a big dropoff in rushing volume and efficiency in the 2024 team (despite an upgrade in RB), the dropback EPA is still subpar (despite two serious investments in WR in Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze).

To wrap this all up - ZRO (Zone Read Option) QBs elevate their RBs, in 2024 Fields being on the field elevated the Steelers rushing efficiency despite them not really using the ZRO, Getsy was dead last in rushing efficiency so it's safe to say that the effectiveness in 2022 & 2023 wasn't him but was instead Fields' abilities and lastly - the Bears were able to have a high usage, high efficiency rushing attack despite subpar talent at RB & OL because of Fields' rare abilities. The Jets are going to run that fucking rock this year and are my pick to make the playoffs because in an NFL that's now designed to stop the pass, there's no greater strength than to run the ball down the other teams throat. It keeps your defense fresh, limits turnovers. simplifies the game and helps the passing attack immensely because teams have to put a safety in the box to try and stop it.

 

[msadows]

Passer? Barring injury, Rodgers will throw for 3000+ passing yards, even in his diminished state.

Fields hasn't ever come close to that in the NFL, and based on how he's now on his 3rd team in what, 5 years? He's going to figure out how to see the open guy now?

Ehh, fields, if he didnt get benched, would have thrown for 3k+ last year

I'd pick fields cause i expect rodgers to be hurt by midseason. Dude takes care of his body like a street hooker

 

[--CyBear--]

Ehh, fields, if he didnt get benched, would have thrown for 3k+ last year

I'd pick fields cause i expect rodgers to be hurt by midseason. Dude takes care of his body like a street hooker

I didn't consider the injury aspect. May have changed my vote.

 

[--CyBear--]

This is the easiest shit to predict, Fields is the engine for a bigtime rushing attack. Having a zone read QB (and plus OLs) helped make both Saquon Barkley and Derrick Henry have dominant seasons where their rushing efficiency got bumped up dramatically.

Player	YPC	Attempts Per Game
Saquon 2023	3.9	17.6
Saquon 2024	5.8	21.6
Henry 2023	4.2	16.5
Henry 2024	5.9	19.1

Both RBs went to teams that used them in a zone read rushing attack and had their YPC bump up by nearly 2 yards per fucking carry while upping their usage rate.

Going into the 2024 season, there were still positive thoughts regarding Luke Getsy and his ability to generate a rushing attack with his playcalling, I'll look at how Getsy impacted the Raiders rushing attack and Fields impacted the Steelers rushing attack despite them never really using the zone read option.

Steelers Weeks 1-6 (w/ Justin, no ZRO): -.109
View attachment 46177

Steelers Weeks 7-18 (without Justin): Rushing EPA -.133
View attachment 46176

Raiders Weeks 1-9 (Getsy can't scheme shit era): -.372 (by far last in the NFL)
View attachment 46178

Now if we look at the 2024 Bears vs the 2023 & 2022 Bears, they drastically lost their ability to effectively run the ball. I'll add in Passing EPA per year just for reference and total rushing attempts because it's important to consider volume when taking this all into consideration. High volume & high efficiency rushing attack = low risk, hard to stop offense = winning football

Team & Year	Rushing EPA (rank)	Rushing Attempts (rank)	Dropback EPA (rank)
Bears 2022	-.004 (7)	558 (2)	-.070 (27)
Bears 2023	-.045 (9)	534 (2)	-.057 (24)
Bears 2024	-.142 (26)	431 (23)	-.036 (25)

So we see a big dropoff in rushing volume and efficiency in the 2024 team (despite an upgrade in RB), the dropback EPA is still subpar (despite two serious investments in WR in Keenan Allen and Rome Odunze).

To wrap this all up - ZRO (Zone Read Option) QBs elevate their RBs, in 2024 Fields being on the field elevated the Steelers rushing efficiency despite them not really using the ZRO, Getsy was dead last in rushing efficiency so it's safe to say that the effectiveness in 2022 & 2023 wasn't him but was instead Fields' abilities and lastly - the Bears were able to have a high usage, high efficiency rushing attack despite subpar talent at RB & OL because of Fields' rare abilities. The Jets are going to run that fucking rock this year and are my pick to make the playoffs because in an NFL that's now designed to stop the pass, there's no greater strength than to run the ball down the other teams throat. It keeps your defense fresh, limits turnovers. simplifies the game and helps the passing attack immensely because teams have to put a safety in the box to try and stop it.

Imagine how well those backs would do if the Eagles and Ravens had great offensive lines. Oh Wait!!!
This is one of the best examples of correlation vs causation I've seen in a while.

Good thing Jahmyr Gibbs (5.6) had Goff to keep D's guessing.

Henry had 5.4 ypc and over 2k yards on the Titans with Tannehill as QB.

Bucky Irving averaged 5.4 on the Bucs with Baker Mayfield.

Can a QB help a RB by being a running threat? Absolutely but a VG OL and scheme fit helps a lot more.

 

[msadows]

Imagine how well those backs would do if the Eagles and Ravens had great offensive lines. Oh Wait!!!

Yea...the jets have a poopy oline dont they? Dunno not gonna say i paid attention to the jets offseason

I do know the steelers ol was as bad as ours last year and they lost a starting tackle. Cant wait to see rodgers run for his life from guys half his age

 

[--CyBear--]

Yea...the jets have a poopy oline dont they? Dunno not gonna say i paid attention to the jets offseason

I do know the steelers ol was as bad as ours last year and they lost a starting tackle. Cant wait to see rodgers run for his life from guys half his age

I don't think the Jets were bad inside but their T's were done. They'll have a top 11 pick at both T spots this year but they're 1st and 2nd year players. I suspect that they'll be pretty good.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Gunna be a top 3 rushing attack in the NFL and that defense has a lot of talent.

Basically a better 2023 Bears with a not absolute dip shit of a head coach.

Jets are gonna **** up the Steelers week 1, I'm buying a Fields Jets jersey + tickets to week 12 and I'll relentlessly troll the Steelers fans because Rodgers is washed and Fields is far from it.

I'm glad you've embraced being a fan of another team. I'd send you a link to one of their message boards but I'm sure you are there already.

 

[Discus fish salesman]

Passer? Barring injury, Rodgers will throw for 3000+ passing yards, even in his diminished state.

Fields hasn't ever come close to that in the NFL, and based on how he's now on his 3rd team in what, 5 years? He's going to figure out how to see the open guy now?

What's the over/under on the first game missed by Fields for injury because he runs too much?

 

[Moses Moreno]

I'm glad you've embraced being a fan of another team. I'd send you a link to one of their message boards but I'm sure you are there already.

I'll be at the game rooting for the Bears and as a Bears fan, it's **** Aaron Rodgers forever.

You can be a fan of a team and still understand that they're probably not going to be good. I'm still high on Caleb's talent, I do think there's a good chance that Ben Johnson is a good to great HC despite me thinking they're going to struggle more than expected this upcoming season.

The Poles era is about to end after this season, hopefully they find a GM who's can build an adequate line that can remain relatively healthy for Caleb and Johnson to do their thing.