Peter Gammons: "it's a dump, Wrigley Field."

[Captain Obvious]

anyone puts soto in the same sentence with mauer is fucking Special person. Atleast I get to laugh at some of this shit I read on here.

The sentence that mentioned Mauer read "Even Mauer." I never mentioned them both in the same sentence. I think you're the one that is fucking Special person. I enjoy the laughs from your fucking retardedness.

He wasn't.

Blind resume I'm taking Posey. And it's not close.




I showed that he was "obviously" not.

Posey had him in every counting stat except OBP. Strike up the band!

Posey>Soto last year offensively. Save your BS sabremetric babble for someone else.

Why are you using a blind resume? That's just stupid.

I would hope that Posey had him in every counting statistic, he had 60 more PAs than Soto. If Soto had been given the PAs he should have by Lou, how do you know that Soto wouldn't have more counting stats? It's not Soto's fault Lou is an idiot. I hope that you can see the flaw with the counting stats. That being said, why use them? They have a major flaw. OPS correlates just about as high as the rest of those stats, which is why I used it. Plus it's not sabermetric.

We're not trying to convince you of anything. We're trying to show you that you're wrong.

How do you knwo Milwaukee can't afford him?

What are you basing this on?

Your reasoning isn't really anything more than the Cubs being turd that smells the least.

Not very strong reasoning IMO..

Well, we know that Milwaukee can't afford him because they have never had a payroll higher than 90 million and already have 58 tied up next year. With Fielder, that number would be around 80 & that's without Gomez, Marcum, Parra, & McGehee signed.

 

[FirstTimer]

Why are you using a blind resume?

To take out bias for a player because he might play for a certain team?

Was this a serious question?

I would hope that Posey had him in every counting statistic, he had 60 more PAs than Soto. If Soto had been given the PAs he should have by Lou, how do you know that Soto wouldn't have more counting stats?

I don't.
Never said I knew that. Never implied it?

Then again the flip side could be true as well. Maybe those 60PA's constitute a slump period for Soto.

Who knows?

OPS correlates just about as high as the rest of those stats, which is why I used it. Plus it's not sabermetric.

Except in OPS each lead one of the OPS catagories. Not to mention the possible flaws with both the OBP and SLG have been covered ad nauseum in this thread already.

Either way, the point still remains. Using ONE stat to judge that Player X>Player Y is absurd.

Well, we know that Milwaukee can't afford him because they have never had a payroll higher than 90 million

Does that mean they aren't allowed to go over 90 million?

Maybe they've never had a reason to before?

Maybe they haven't wanted to until now when they feel they can build and win now with guys like Braun, Fielder, Greinke, Marcum, Hart, Weeks, Gallardo, etc in the fold.

Perhaps the Milwaukee front office will feel this is the time to expand payroll as that team if they can keep the core together has a real shot at contending year in and year out for a while.

Maybe they are REALLY sold on Gamel and let Fielder walk. Who knows. Just because they have never spent over $90 doesn't mean they don't have it. It could be as simple as they haven't felt the need to go that high before because they didn't think a team was worth it. IMO the core they have there now might be.

 

[poodski]

Why would you want to give a declining player even more money than he was originally guaranteed?

Because we have no one to play 3b. I Think eight to ten mil a year for him would be fair. 3b is a very thin position in the bigs right now.

 

[daddies3angels]

Because we have no one to play 3b. I Think eight to ten mil a year for him would be fair. 3b is a very thin position in the bigs right now.

i agree with this. A-ram is still the best FA 3B to be next year. If they want to go after Fielder they will need to sell him he will have protection behind him and bringing up Vitters will not do that

 

[DewsSox79]

Well, we know that Milwaukee can't afford him because they have never had a payroll higher than 90 million and already have 58 tied up next year. With Fielder, that number would be around 80 & that's without Gomez, Marcum, Parra, & McGehee signed.

Wait a sec! Not spending 90 million before does NOT equal NOT AFFORDING. WTF?! It is like saying Im not going to be able to buy a 50,000 Mercedes because I cant afford it due to never spending that much on a car before. Jesus christ kid. So would I be shocked if Fielder stays with the Brewers? **** no.

The sentence that mentioned Mauer read "Even Mauer." I never mentioned them both in the same sentence. I think you're the one that is fucking Special person. I enjoy the laughs from your fucking retardedness.

good one!

 

[Rice Cube]

Because we have no one to play 3b. I Think eight to ten mil a year for him would be fair. 3b is a very thin position in the bigs right now.

Why pay Ramirez his 2012 option or $30MM over three years when, again, he's old, he's probably on the decline if he isn't already, and cheaper, younger guys can likely take that spot? You are again assuming that the Cubs can contend. That's true when the season starts and everyone is 0-0, but I'm just thinking that this core doesn't have it. With or without Prince Fielder. Maybe in a couple years, but not in 2012.

 

[poodski]

Why pay Ramirez his 2012 option or $30MM over three years when, again, he's old, he's probably on the decline if he isn't already, and cheaper, younger guys can likely take that spot? You are again assuming that the Cubs can contend. That's true when the season starts and everyone is 0-0, but I'm just thinking that this core doesn't have it. With or without Prince Fielder. Maybe in a couple years, but not in 2012.

Who do you want to have play 3B then?

Vitters isnt ready. Smith sucks. DJ doesn't really have the bat for it.

So honestly its either Aramis or someone like Kelly Johnson.

If this team is going to go young and give up like some people in here think then every single player better be gone and the payroll better be below 50 million. I dont care if you have to give 50 million to get rid of Soriano he better be gone if we are going the Marquez Smith route.

Also I realize Aramis isn't exactly lighting it up but his sOPS+ is still 113.

That's how bad 3B is right now.

 

[Rice Cube]

Who do you want to have play 3B then?

Vitters isnt ready. Smith sucks. DJ doesn't really have the bat for it.

So honestly its either Aramis or someone like Kelly Johnson.

If this team is going to go young and give up like some people in here think then every single player better be gone and the payroll better be below 50 million. I dont care if you have to give 50 million to get rid of Soriano he better be gone if we are going the Marquez Smith route.

Also I realize Aramis isn't exactly lighting it up but his sOPS+ is still 113.

That's how bad 3B is right now.

If 3B is so bad and Aramis isn't all that spectacular, wasting money on his contract next year isn't a good use of money to eke out marginal wins. And yes, I would prefer they cut payroll and play all the kids, but you and I both know that there are some contracts that can be eaten more easily than others. If Soriano can't be cut (I doubt they will because of the size of his contract), move him to first base.

 

[poodski]

If 3B is so bad and Aramis isn't all that spectacular, wasting money on his contract next year isn't a good use of money to eke out marginal wins. And yes, I would prefer they cut payroll and play all the kids, but you and I both know that there are some contracts that can be eaten more easily than others. If Soriano can't be cut (I doubt they will because of the size of his contract), move him to first base.

Its all about being better than the average 3B though, thats how you get wins. Pitching is definitely the prominent force in baseball right now so you take what offense you can get.

As far as Soriano I think that would be awful. He doesn't pay attention now in the OF, and makes too many dumb mistakes. He would be playing with a butterfly and Castro would throw one and hit him right in the head.

 

[Rice Cube]

Its all about being better than the average 3B though, thats how you get wins. Pitching is definitely the prominent force in baseball right now so you take what offense you can get.

As far as Soriano I think that would be awful. He doesn't pay attention now in the OF, and makes too many dumb mistakes. He would be playing with a butterfly and Castro would throw one and hit him right in the head.

What you seem to be doing is hoping that the Cubs spend money they might not have or want to spend on an aging veteran who is on the decline when they have a means to get out of this contract. You're also hoping that Rami can bounce back like he was supposed to bounce back at the beginning of this season to become a 3B that by all accounts (aging curves included) he will find difficulty living up to. As of now he has amassed 0.5 fWAR and 0.7 rWAR with a third of the season played. As a cumulative stat it still has a chance to go up or down, but assuming he accumulates WAR at a steady rate that makes him a 2 win player at best. That's around league average. You're telling me you can't find a league average 3B for cheaper than his option or a hypothetical 3-year contract worth $30MM?

As for 1B, I'm guessing that Soriano will do a lot better offensively than whatever Micah Hoffpauir clone they throw there, and since they would logically be reluctant to just get rid of his contract right away, and given that 1B is the easiest position on the diamond to play, it's not that crazy. They just have to try it. Which they won't, which means lots of adventures in LF as his knees keep dying.

 

[poodski]

That's around league average. You're telling me you can't find a league average 3B for cheaper than his option or a hypothetical 3-year contract worth $30MM?

I agree with everything you said, but this is the whole question it comes down to.

And right now the answer is no.

As for 1B, I'm guessing that Soriano will do a lot better offensively than whatever Micah Hoffpauir clone they throw there, and since they would logically be reluctant to just get rid of his contract right away, and given that 1B is the easiest position on the diamond to play, it's not that crazy. They just have to try it. Which they won't, which means lots of adventures in LF as his knees keep dying.

Perhaps I just don't know if he has the mental IQ to play 1B. I mean if his baseball IQ was good he would be a great outfielder but unfortunately dicks and around and loses focus and looks like a damned fool out there.

As far as 1B, Bryan LaHair might be an idea. He is probably a AAAA guy, but is probably better than anything else we have at the moment. Or of course there is Colvin.

I guess that brings up the question of what would you like to see the 1B/3B/OF look like under the scenario they are not willing to spend money and let Ramirez go.

 

[nickofypres]

BUMP:

Stark: Cubs officials claim Wrigley maybe beyond rehab - Cubs Insider



So what do the Cubbies do?

You cannot overhaul it the way Fenway Park was, while Boston's Fenway park did open in 1912, most of Fenway was rebuilt in 1934 because most of the park burnt down in a fire on January 5th, 1934. So Fenway's infrastructure wasn't as deteriorated as Wrigleys currently is. Old wodden grandstands were replaced with concrete and steel ones. But even if the Cubs did have an option to pick up renovate? Who would pick up the bill? Ricketts sunk almost most of his fortune in the purchase of the Cubs and the state can't afford to pay it as Illinois is broke.

Do the Cubs come to U.S. Cellular Field for a couple of seasons? You have to look at this from a financial point. Yes, having the Cubbies playing at the Cell would generate money for the White Sox from taking parts of parking, concession, ticket sales and probably a small rent fee. But in the grander scheme of things, the Cubs are the White Sox rival competition for the summer. If the Cubs are forced to vacate to Miller Park or Busch Stadium for a year or two while New Wrigley is build or heavy renovations begin, its much simpler to take in a Sox game in town then drive 90 miles north or 300 miles south to St. Louis.

Where does this leave the Cubs?

 

[Gunzaan]

The Cubs playing 88 games at the cell would make me throw up in my mouth.

 

[Rice Cube]

The Cubs playing 88 games at the cell would make me throw up in my mouth.

Why? It's still in Chicago and you don't have to drive to Milwaukee or STL. And it's for the greater good if they need to time to renovate/rebuild Wrigley Field. Life goes on. It's still the Cubs playing, it's just a different field.

 

[AE23]

Lol, they can play at my high schools ball field, should feel right at home.

 

[nickofypres]

Why? It's still in Chicago and you don't have to drive to Milwaukee or STL. And it's for the greater good if they need to time to renovate/rebuild Wrigley Field. Life goes on. It's still the Cubs playing, it's just a different field.

True, but JR has the final say, even over our "Bud" Selig. And JR has said in the past he wouldn't let the Cubs play in USCF because the Cubs wouldn't let the Sox use Wrigley while USFC was being built. What would they do? Obviously they wouldn't relocate out of Chicago-metro on a permanent basis, but if Wrigley is unusable, they aren't allowed to play at the Cell and the City/State and ownsership can't afford a new stadium then what do they do?

 

[Rice Cube]

Lol, they can play at my high schools ball field, should feel right at home.

I honestly don't care where they play as long as I can get there by public transit and they win more than they lose

 

[Rice Cube]

True, but JR has the final say, even over our "Bud" Selig. And JR has said in the past he wouldn't let the Cubs play in USCF because the Cubs wouldn't let the Sox use Wrigley while USFC was being built.

Ah. Guess they're going to Milwaukee then. Hehe.

 

[AE23]

I honestly don't care where they play as long as I can get there by public transit and they win more than they lose

but seriously this ↓

True, but JR has the final say, even over our "Bud" Selig. And JR has said in the past he wouldn't let the Cubs play in USCF because the Cubs wouldn't let the Sox use Wrigley while USFC was being built.

 

[DewsSox79]

if they were to build new they would probably keep playing at wrigley. as it is a dump of a ball park they can still play there a couple of years with the focus only on safety. i highly doubt they would play at the cell. reinsdorf would have to make a buck on it, and since the cell is leased out by the state, the state would make the money with portions of concessions going to the sox, not enough for reinsdorf to agree to.....as he would have to agree to this situation all together.

did you know what the boston people say now? they said if they had the choice to do it again they would have built new.