Playoff Roster?

[chibears55]

Count again. Had Stella and Cog's off with a choice between Zast and Mont.

Montero will be on. To be honest he should be catching more in the series due to experience. He is taking a back seat right now so Contreras can log in more game experience but the play offs is a whole new animal and I doubt Joe will roll the dice here

Why do you think Contreras been catching Arrieta lately
Getting him ready for playoff..

Soler going to play LF..

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[chibears55]

Count again. Had Stella and Cog's off with a choice between Zast and Mont.

Montero will be on. To be honest he should be catching more in the series due to experience. He is taking a back seat right now so Contreras can log in more game experience but the play offs is a whole new animal and I doubt Joe will roll the dice here

Ok.. Then you got 4 bats on bench all RH if you're starting Montero and 9 relievers..

Ehhh. Not quite a good way to go there



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[CSF77]

Ok.. Then you got 4 bats on bench all RH if you're starting Montero and 9 relievers..

Ehhh. Not quite a good way to go there



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They have Zobrist who can play LF if needed. But Soler was the hottest player last off season. You have to go with it with him.

Cog has batted under .200 all year long. He didn't deserve a spot. Notice his phantom injury went away when rosters expanded.... Lol same with Joe Smith. That damn phantom...you never know.

Like I said the play offs are another animal and Contreras has 0 innings logged in in that atmosphere. I just do not see Joe handing him the reins. Right now with this huge lead going on the risk is low if he screws up behind the plate. In the series every thing resets. You have to lean on experience at that point. Why I believe Wood will be on vs Zast. Play off experience etc.

Joe is going to lean on his vets. To think other wise is not taking Joe into account

 

[chibears55]

They have Zobrist who can play LF if needed. But Soler was the hottest player last off season. You have to go with it with him.

Cog has batted under .200 all year long. He didn't deserve a spot. Notice his phantom injury went away when rosters expanded.... Lol same with Joe Smith. That damn phantom...you never know.

Like I said the play offs are another animal and Contreras has 0 innings logged in in that atmosphere. I just do not see Joe handing him the reins. Right now with this huge lead going on the risk is low if he screws up behind the plate. In the series every thing resets. You have to lean on experience at that point. Why I believe Wood will be on vs Zast. Play off experience etc.

Joe is going to lean on his vets. To think other wise is not taking Joe into account

So you think he gonna START Montero who been under .200 all year

But

Not go with Cogs off bench


Why do you think Cogs and even LaStella with what he did are still on this team ? Cause they plan on having them for the bench in playoff as LH pinch hitting options

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[CSF77]

See all you see is O

 

[chibears55]

See all you see is O

No.. I see Montero as useless

They haven't been playing Contreras behind plate and sitting Montero for better part of last month or so just to sit Contreras in playoff or play him sparingly in LF and start Montero in playoff just because he can frame good.

Montero hasn't hit all year, and struggled throwing baserunners out..
But
You want him to start behind plate because he can frame pitches better then Contreras, who can hit , throw out runners, and brings energy..

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[CSF77]

No.. I see Montero as useless

They haven't been playing Contreras behind plate and sitting Montero for better part of last month or so just to sit Contreras in playoff or play him sparingly in LF and start Montero in playoff just because he can frame good.

Montero hasn't hit all year, and struggled throwing baserunners out..
But
You want him to start behind plate because he can frame pitches better then Contreras, who can hit , throw out runners, and brings energy..

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And Contreras is mistake prone behind the plate.

If you want to admit it or not that is fine. Jake has had better results with Miguel vs Anyone else. We saw it again today.

Again. You are only looking at it from 1 perspective. From the O.

You have to realize that the majority of the O is coming from 1-5 in the line up. 6-9 has been hit or miss and not depended on.

The Cubs will only go as far as their staff will lead them. In the play offs all of the teams are good. So the whole mentality of out gunning them will not win a series. What the majority of the game will be are games like today where the team that minamalizes mistakes will win a tight game.

Sure their maybe a blow out but that will not be the norm

 

[CSF77]

The only exception to that I see is if they go up against a running team. Texas is an example of this. At that point you have to neutralize that factor. But a station to station team you go with Miguel or Ross.

 

[chibears55]

And Contreras is mistake prone behind the plate.

If you want to admit it or not that is fine. Jake has had better results with Miguel vs Anyone else. We saw it again today.

Again. You are only looking at it from 1 perspective. From the O.

You have to realize that the majority of the O is coming from 1-5 in the line up. 6-9 has been hit or miss and not depended on.

The Cubs will only go as far as their staff will lead them. In the play offs all of the teams are good. So the whole mentality of out gunning them will not win a series. What the majority of the game will be are games like today where the team that minamalizes mistakes will win a tight game.

Sure their maybe a blow out but that will not be the norm

You're blaming Contreras for LaStella Error, and the 2 out single, walk, single that scored 2 of 3 runs..

Not sure if you've been watching , Montero has made plenty of mistakes behind home plate along with not being able to throw runners out this year..

So, no .. Not just looking at Contreras being a much better hitter then Montero..
He also been out playing him defensively..

Small sample size, but Arrieta pitched just fine with Contreras behind plate and said it himself he comfortable with Contreras.


Contreras been working with Arrieta with his side sessions since pretty much the time he came up to get ready to catch him ..
They didn't just do this for the regular season, they did this for the playoff too..

Contreras is now and future, Montero is either backup next year or gone..

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[CSF77]

He is getting better but you can't push it off like that:

Ken Woolums, ESPN Stats & Information
The Chicago Cubs are undergoing a changing of the guard behind the plate. Willson Contreras, who has seven homers and a .780 OPS in his first 53 games, has seemingly earned a larger share of playing time.

Miguel Montero, who has caught Jake Arrieta regularly, has struggled at the plate, with five homers and a .197 batting average in 65 games.

Their numbers behind the plate are a slightly different story. With Montero catching this season, Cubs pitchers have an ERA of 3.20. That number is 4.01 when Contreras is catching.

The importance of called strikes

Over the past two seasons, Montero ranks among the best at getting calls for his pitchers. Adjusted strikes looking (SL+) measures how good a catcher is at earning called strikes compared to his peers, based on the likelihood that those strikes are called by an umpire.

According to that metric, Montero ranks seventh in the major leagues at getting calls for his pitchers (104.9) since the beginning of 2015.

Contreras has a 99.7 SL+ in 36 games catching this season, which is slightly above league average.

 

[chibears55]

He is getting better but you can't push it off like that:

Ken Woolums, ESPN Stats & Information
The Chicago Cubs are undergoing a changing of the guard behind the plate. Willson Contreras, who has seven homers and a .780 OPS in his first 53 games, has seemingly earned a larger share of playing time.

Miguel Montero, who has caught Jake Arrieta regularly, has struggled at the plate, with five homers and a .197 batting average in 65 games.

Their numbers behind the plate are a slightly different story. With Montero catching this season, Cubs pitchers have an ERA of 3.20. That number is 4.01 when Contreras is catching.

The importance of called strikes

Over the past two seasons, Montero ranks among the best at getting calls for his pitchers. Adjusted strikes looking (SL+) measures how good a catcher is at earning called strikes compared to his peers, based on the likelihood that those strikes are called by an umpire.

According to that metric, Montero ranks seventh in the major leagues at getting calls for his pitchers (104.9) since the beginning of 2015.

Contreras has a 99.7 SL+ in 36 games catching this season, which is slightly above league average.

We can agree to disagree here..

I just can't believe there someone who actually prefers Montero starting over Contreras now..

Anyone else feel this way?

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[CSF77]

We can agree to disagree here..

I just can't believe there someone who actually prefers Montero starting over Contreras now..

Anyone else feel this way?

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Not really a preference issue. The numbers don't lie. He is getting better and the playing time he is getting is the reason. But when the play offs start they will have to weigh the whole Picture vs looking at their O. If adding called strikes out weighs other factors they will go there.

Long term Wison is the starter. But as of today he is still on a learning curve and the play offs are a new challenge.

If we were talking LF this would be no brain and go with flat production and sub D late inning. But when it effects the ebb and flow of the game as the pitcher catcher relationship it is never a easy decision. Hendricks you go with Wlson as Hendricks is that pin point. Jake's ball is moving all over and we saw some results. You have to believe they will pair up him and Miguel.

Ross and Lester will pair up. Not sure on Lackey to be honest. Think he had bad results with Wilson. So not too sure here.

 

[greg23]

Its labor day and we're still 5 weeks from a 5 game nlds but id assume we'll have home field advantage.

At this point i dont see how the rotation isnt

G1 Lester
G2 Hendricks
G3 Arrietta
G4 Lackey (if healthy) or Hamel
G5 Lester

Most of the possible 1st round matchups feature teams who struggle vs lhp and lester is absolutely on fire

Hendricks has just been better than arrietta and his home road splits are significant....factor in he could be used out of the pen (or even start) in G5 at home on normal rest

While not as good as hendricks this year arrietta has more swing and miss stuff....him starting g3 on the road gives me more confidence than hendricks

Rather see lackey in g4 than hamels as I don't trust hamels mental makeup, esp on the road in a clinch or be eliminated game

 

[DanTown]

If Wilson Contreras is your long term starter and at the worst possible comparison is that Montero is slightly better than him at handling the pitching staff but Wilson has the better arm, better bat, and better speed why would you burn a roster spot on Montero? In the playoffs, the difference in winning or losing a series is going to be one play and I think that one play is more likely to be made by Conteras than Montero.

Also, why not let Contreras get more experience by being the every day catcher that he's going to be for you next year?

 

[DanTown]

Not really a preference issue. The numbers don't lie. He is getting better and the playing time he is getting is the reason. But when the play offs start they will have to weigh the whole Picture vs looking at their O. If adding called strikes out weighs other factors they will go there.

Long term Wison is the starter. But as of today he is still on a learning curve and the play offs are a new challenge.

If we were talking LF this would be no brain and go with flat production and sub D late inning. But when it effects the ebb and flow of the game as the pitcher catcher relationship it is never a easy decision. Hendricks you go with Wlson as Hendricks is that pin point. Jake's ball is moving all over and we saw some results. You have to believe they will pair up him and Miguel.

Ross and Lester will pair up. Not sure on Lackey to be honest. Think he had bad results with Wilson. So not too sure here.

You're right, they don't lie.

Wilson Contreras
fWAR: 1.3
Offensive runs above average: 3.1
Defensive runs above average: 1.9

Miguel Montero
fWAR: -.5
Offensive runs above average:-10.3
Defensive runs above average: -2.0

I tend to believe that Joe starting Miguel once every fourth day (at best) the past month is trying to get Wilson as ready as possible. Maybe he keeps Miguel over Coghlan but I can't even see him doing that.

 

[85Bears]

I just can't believe there someone who actually prefers Montero starting over Contreras now..

Anyone else feel this way?

Contreras all the way here. He's already good, but I'd keep playing him as much as possible over the next few weeks, then start him in the playoffs.

Only thing Montero has on him right now is game calling and possibly pitch framing. Both of those skills are improving in Contreras rapidly enough that by October, the better bat, better arm, and better athleticism will MORE than outweigh any remaining differences there.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I'd consider having Ross catch both Lester and Arrieta. As soon as they are out of the game, I'd make a double switch and bring Contreras in to catch.

 

[SilenceS]

Contreras just had a real rough time blocking Jake and receiving his balls. Jakes stuff was nasty yesterday. Some of the best movement he has had all year and Contreras was getting buckled on pitches. Your starter has to have complete confidence that you can stop his pitches to be truly effective. Im sure Maddon will keep a close eye.

 

[Diehardfan]

I didn't bother to look up stats to substantiate this but it just appears to me that Jake throws more pitches with Contreras behind the plate. I like him a lot but the playoffs is hardly the place for "on the job training" of your catcher. If you're looking to get your starter deeper into the game then you sacrifice the kid's bat and speed for either Ross or Montero. I think Maddon keeps all three catchers on the roster for that very reason.

 

[chibears55]

I didn't bother to look up stats to substantiate this but it just appears to me that Jake throws more pitches with Contreras behind the plate. I like him a lot but the playoffs is hardly the place for "on the job training" of your catcher. If you're looking to get your starter deeper into the game then you sacrifice the kid's bat and speed for either Ross or Montero. I think Maddon keeps all three catchers on the roster for that very reason.

I looked it up and he doesn't throw more pitches with Contreras, he actually threw more on Avg. in his first 20+ starts while Montero or Ross was catching him..

His stats as far as IP and pitches have basically been the same throughout the year...
For the most part it been 5 to 8 ip and 100+ pitches

So, wheather it's Contreras or the two baseball fossils catching.. It has no effect on how deep a starter goes


So far I haven't seen any good reason to have Montero on the playoff roster and to even start him over Contreras..

All adding and starting Montero does is take away a better option for the bench and better player(s) ( Contreras Baez Soler) out of the lineup

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