Reconciliation w/ Sandberg expected this week

[Rice Cube]

I thought we settled this Soriano argument thing :lol:

 

[Rice Cube]

I think I can help you guys reach a compromise...

Alfonso Soriano Statistics and History - Baseball-Reference.com

In 2006, 2007 and 2008, when Soriano was first converted to an outfielder, his defensive value was positive. It was also surprisingly positive in 2011. In the years before 2006 he was in the infield, where anyone can see that he was atrocious, whether or not you were using spreadsheets. When he first converted to the OF, he was fine because he had the speed and thus the range to make up for bad routes, and he also had the arm strength, among the league leaders in outfield assists. Then his legs were shot and he started to suck. I don't think you can use the stats to say that he was elite, and you also can't say he wasn't terrible from a fundamentals point of view, but in the years I cited, he was an effective defender. Just not a very good one.

Everyone happy?

 

[Captain Obvious]

If Soriano is a good defender, why does he consistently get replaced in late inning situations

So now good = not terrible hmm...

What you have to understand is that not all 3 OF positions are the same. CF is harder than RF, which is harder than LF. Just because Soriano is good at LF, doesn't mean he is a good OFer, which is not what I have said at all. He gets replaced in late inning situations because we have better defenders. Never have I nor anyone else said that he is the best OFer we have. But when compared to other LF(notice I said LF not OF.), he is good because for the most part, LFers suck.

 

[nwfisch]

So now good = not terrible hmm...

What you have to understand is that not all 3 OF positions are the same. CF is harder than RF, which is harder than LF. Just because Soriano is good at LF, doesn't mean he is a good OFer, which is not what I have said at all. He gets replaced in late inning situations because we have better defenders. Never have I nor anyone else said that he is the best OFer we have. But when compared to other LF(notice I said LF not OF.), he is good because for the most part, LFers suck.

Even if he is a "good" LF, he still shouldn't be consistently replaced by other defenders. The word for Soriano's defense is serviceable.

 

[Capt. Serious]

CO

Soriano should've won multiple gold gloves

 

[Captain Obvious]

CO

Soriano should've won multiple gold gloves

You are quite possibly the worst poster on this site.

Even if he is a "good" LF, he still shouldn't be consistently replaced by other defenders. The word for Soriano's defense is serviceable.

Just because he is replaced, doesn't mean he isn't a good LFer. Have you seen our last two managers? I mean, they aren't exactly the sharpest spoon in the sink.

And why shouldn't he be replaced by other defenders? If they are better, don't we want them out there if they give us the best chance to win?

 

[Uman85]

They aren't exactly the sharpest spoon in the sink.

Spoons aren't supposed to be sharp. Why do you want the spoons in your sink to be sharp? :thinking:

 

[Captain Obvious]

Spoons aren't supposed to be sharp. Why do you want the spoons in your sink to be sharp? :thinking:

Perhaps that is the problem. Why wouldn't you want a sharp spoon in a sink? It makes cutting your jello a lot easier!

 

[nwfisch]

You are quite possibly the worst poster on this site.



Just because he is replaced, doesn't mean he isn't a good LFer. Have you seen our last two managers? I mean, they aren't exactly the sharpest spoon in the sink.

And why shouldn't he be replaced by other defenders? If they are better, don't we want them out there if they give us the best chance to win?

Lou Pinella led the Cubs to the playoffs twice. That's a lot more than a lot of other Cub managers can say.

If by a good LF you're including his bat, then I'd agree 100%.
Then he's not a "good" defender of LF if he is replaced on a consistent basis in late game situations. His defense is OK, bearable, but not good.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Lou Pinella led the Cubs to the playoffs twice. That's a lot more than a lot of other Cub managers can say.

If by a good LF you're including his bat, then I'd agree 100%.
Then he's not a "good" defender of LF if he is replaced on a consistent basis in late game situations. His defense is OK, bearable, but not good.

The manager has very little effect on a team. The GM is the one who constructs the team, the manager just fucks up the line ups and pitchers. I kid, but the Cubs would have made the playoffs with or without Lou. Although I suppose you could say that Lou motivated them when he went crazy on that 3B ump, but I think you get the idea.

His defense most certainly is good for a LFer. According to UZR, Soriano has been the best LFer since 2007, defensively. While I think that's a stretch, he is consistently at the top of the UZR leaderboard. So what if he is replaced for another defender? It doesn't mean A) that he isn't a good defender in LF and B) that it is the right decision.

 

[Anno Catuli]

The manager has very little effect on a team. The GM is the one who constructs the team, the manager just fucks up the line ups and pitchers. I kid, but the Cubs would have made the playoffs with or without Lou. Although I suppose you could say that Lou motivated them when he went crazy on that 3B ump, but I think you get the idea.

His defense most certainly is good for a LFer. According to UZR, Soriano has been the best LFer since 2007, defensively. While I think that's a stretch, he is consistently at the top of the UZR leaderboard. So what if he is replaced for another defender? It doesn't mean A) that he isn't a good defender in LF and B) that it is the right decision.

I agree.

Which is why I laugh when people say Sandberg would be the right choice to lead this team and thinking that he is the missing piece.

Managers in baseball have very little effect. Least out of the four major sports.

 

[FirstTimer]

You are quite possibly the worst poster on this site.

Classic. Coming from a poster that thinks Soriano isn't terrible in LF.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Classic. Coming from a poster that thinks Soriano isn't terrible in LF.

But you watch him, so you know. Amirite?

 

[FirstTimer]

But you watch him, so you know.

Are you admitting you don't?

 

[Captain Obvious]

Are you admitting you don't?

No, I do. But I don't watch 162 games a year, and most people don't. So how can you judge him correctly if you don't see all his plays? You can't.

 

[FirstTimer]

No, I do.

Could have fooled us.

So how can you judge him correctly if you don't see all his plays? You can't.

Get a DVR?..or beg your parents to buy you one. Amazing invention.

 

[Captain Obvious]

Could have fooled us.


Get a DVR?..or beg your parents to buy you one. Amazing invention.

You still can't be subjective about the matter. That's why metrics & stats are so awesome, they don't have any bias, which you obviously do.

 

[FirstTimer]

You still can't be subjective about the matter.

Why not?

Soriano has never wronged my family.

That's why metrics & stats are so awesome, they don't have any bias, which you obviously do.

Metrics and stats can have "bias" or leans. If one metric doesn't weight something as much as the other and a player is good/bad at that one thing that's a bias within the metric and will effect the outcome of the data. A true number is a number is a number. 2 is 2 by itself. The weight I give that (2) based on how important I think it is in relation to the metric I am making is a bias. It doesn't have to be a bias against one player, it can be a bias against a certain baseline number to begin with.

For someone who drones on about metrics so much you have virtually no grasp of them or understanding of them at all in any real meaningful sense.

 

[USCChiFan]

So now good = not terrible hmm...

What you have to understand is that not all 3 OF positions are the same. CF is harder than RF, which is harder than LF. Just because Soriano is good at LF, doesn't mean he is a good OFer, which is not what I have said at all. He gets replaced in late inning situations because we have better defenders. Never have I nor anyone else said that he is the best OFer we have. But when compared to other LF(notice I said LF not OF.), he is good because for the most part, LFers suck.

Save for the exceptions of Geraldo Parra and Brett Gardner.

Also DRS>UZR

 

[Uman85]

Metrics should never be used as the main factor in looking at a player's production and worth. They have too many variables, are flawed and don't tell you everything about the player. They can be a useful tool, but they're not the be-all, end-all.