RIP Steve Jobs.

supraman

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I can agree there. But MS has gotten better, Win 7 home premium full brand new you can find ranging from $80-100 dollars online. As recent as vista the "upgrade" version was $150 bucks and the full version of home premium was nearly $300.



I belong to the MSDN so I get it all free
<
. (Through work we have an agreement with microsoft, we can get all MS products for free as developers because they want us to use them and recommend them to clients).



It is well North of 100.00 for windows 7 basic. An upgrade to 7 is sub 100 but the full OS is north of 100
 

R K

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Microsoft fucked themselves with Vista. The marketing was completely off base. Vista was just "mellinium edition" renamed but they wanted to push something out because they knew W7 was not going to be ready. Even knowing ME failed misserably. The backlash they faced was un matched by anything previously. So bad that they allowed MFR's to allow dual boot between XP and Vista, because XP was such a better OS.



W7 is very good.
 

MassHavoc

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I haven't made the transition to W7 on any computer yet, but I keep hearing it's decent after you get used to it...
 

phranchk

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I have no complaints about Windows 7. Seems to run as smoothly, if not more so than XP did on my machine. If you decide you want windows 7 buy an oem version. Saves a bunch of money and it's the same thing without all the fancy packaging. It's meant for PC builders, but it works the same as the retail version.

Also, that's the other bone of contention with Microsoft OS, why do you need 5 different versions?
 

MassHavoc

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I know what OEM is, haha... but I buy student/Ed/Faculty versions. or whatever you want to call them. Much cheaper if you can do it.
 

R K

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I have no complaints about Windows 7. Seems to run as smoothly, if not more so than XP did on my machine. If you decide you want windows 7 buy an oem version. Saves a bunch of money and it's the same thing without all the fancy packaging. It's meant for PC builders, but it works the same as the retail version.

Also, that's the other bone of contention with Microsoft OS, why do you need 5 different versions?





It's also illegal unless you are building your machine. Not that it matters but just throwing it out there. If you use an OEM version as an upgrade it's not licensed.
 

phranchk

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It's also illegal unless you are building your machine. Not that it matters but just throwing it out there. If you use an OEM version as an upgrade it's not licensed.

I didn't upgrade, I installed fresh, and technically I am a computer builder as I did build this computer.
 

MassHavoc

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It's also illegal unless you are building your machine. Not that it matters but just throwing it out there. If you use an OEM version as an upgrade it's not licensed.

So is downloading music.....
<
 

supraman

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Win 7 is what vista shoulda been, it is a great OS. from what little I seen of win 8, no sir I don't like it.
 

R K

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Win 7 is what vista shoulda been, it is a great OS. from what little I seen of win 8, no sir I don't like it.



Vista was Millinium Edition renamed. W7 was not ready for release and Microsoft scrambled. ME sucked, thus Vista sucked too. Worse they started off forcing their customers to switch. Until they realized the backlash.



Yea I know Frank I was just thowing it out there. It's not like the BSA is going to come after individual users. OEM is a fuzzy area.
 

TSD

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It is well North of 100.00 for windows 7 basic. An upgrade to 7 is sub 100 but the full OS is north of 100



Dont buy the retail version. get the system builder version, same damn thing and infinitely cheaper.
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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I somewhat disagree on your time frame. I was selling quadruple the amount of PC's than Apple well before the release of W95. Packard Bell, AST,IBM, soon Compaq, far out matched the Apple Brand in demand. As for W95 the anticipation was unmatched amongst ANYTHING previously released from ANY MFR. There were back orders over a year before the release date. We had over a million copies in stock and ready to fly three months before the release.





This pretty much fits in my comment. Remember I was talking about homes and not businesses. Businesses were pretty much locked up by then, the home market took over with the pre-orders (which were backed up by many vendors not quite ready), and it is where the industry saw massive growth as I am sure you got to enjoy. It is where there industry changed, and it changed due to growth spurred on by M$'s\Intel's anti-trust behavior and PC's becoming much cheaper than they were entering the 90's.



My comment also comes from an InfoWorld-Gartner report and a T. Rowe Price prospectus around '96 on Apple and what happened. Both have always stuck with me, and quite frankly got me to buy stock in the company at that time. Before the tech boom, a company making $500M+ is not a losing or dying company. They just did not grow with the rest of the industry so the spin is easy to say they are dying and dead if they are not growing (or firing, or buying companies, etc., just as it is today). Nevermind, the profit they pulled in and the consistent sales (which at that time Apple and MacMall sold the vast majority of Apple stuff. Heck Egghead still had sections dedicated to Apple before EggHead started getting displaced by competitors).



Apple was also big into patent development. Many patents were licensed by many of those growing companies in their hardware and software. M$ licensed the taskbar and startmenu idea from Apple for their Win95 OS, because Apple owned the patents on those concepts in the OS.







Now many colleges, which I mentioned "education and Apples NITCH", through out the country were using the Apple 2SE because as I said it DOMINATED the graphic design, publication industry(NITCH). After that Apple really began to fade compared to the MS OS development that was to follow. Topped with Him leaving the Company and serious compatability issues with the other side of the arena.



Apple will always have its "nitch" of users. But it was ran by and almost burried by the competition, mainly due to the development of software from the giant. Amperpage only went so far.. LOL



Spin, as K-12 or Higher Ed. is not graphic design or publication. While they did have a lock on those industries (and CAD since AutoDesk was too hefty in needs\price, and performance blew through most of the 90's), it was not their only "niches". Continuing to sell 10-15 million units annually during the dark years is not nitch, just a lack of growth. As a consumer who is used to using a PC at work and now as the cash on hand to buy something for home is going to point to the sale that is $1500 or less than the other option. That was probably Apples worst fail; not trying to get in on the growth with everyone else. They had the reserves at that time to undercut, but choose not too. Then again, if you are pulling in $500M+, why change the business plan.







Now as for network implementation Apple has never even been in the conversations. In modern times like today, not even option. How many Apple Blades are you running. You aren't. Pre early 90's it was the AS400 and other AS/IBM MFR'd main frame systems.



Networking has never been their strong suit. Nor anything they have dumped too much money into other than buying the tech from other companies. Until recently I would say it blew and was the bane of many. And that just from the desktop side. Servers were a no-go from the get-go.







Soon they were compatible with almost nothing as far as the most widely used software developed for the PC Side. Microsoft, while being sued as a Monopoly dumped MILLIONS into the company. One because they were being sued as a Monopoly. That some what opened the door for some compatability.



Games. Games was another major win for the PC side. Mostly from the mentality of the programmers (Apple was too locked down because they would not allow me to create my own system Windows and damnit I want to reinvent the wheel, oi glavin). But also because it was cheaper to develop games on the PC, and to hell is the video incompatibilities through most of the 90's, I was going to get money from Voodoo to write graphics specifically for them, or 3dfx, etc.



The thing with the Microsoft money towards Apple was more shush for their illegal reverse engineering of QuickTime that it was a quieting of Anti-trust. They just never expected Apple to call them out on it, and prove they used Apple code. Odd how they money was specifically to pay and back pay for that....odder still that Silverlight is essentially a streamlined Quicktime where Apple owns most of the patents used. Along with owning many of the patents used in the Aero interface (which were supposed to make it into the first System 10 (OSX), but if you can sell it and license it, why not do that then rush it into your own product first.



All goes beyond the hardware sales during those years.
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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Win 7 is what vista shoulda been, it is a great OS. from what little I seen of win 8, no sir I don't like it.





Win8 is going to be tablet\Phone focused. Microsoft has made it pretty clear what their intentions are with the OS and don't want to get too far behind in those markets. Playing with it on the tablets we can install it to, it is pretty niffty. It has the ability to eat into the Blackberry market amongst the youts.





As far as Win7 goes it is worthwhile. Having tested 2000 applications (and freaking odd balls at that), and not running into a compatibility issue that the OS cannot compensate for, along with it working faster than XP or Vista on hardware withing the last 3 years makes it a worthwhile move. Stability is beyond anything they have every done, those older peripherals will nag. Security is vastly improved as well. Sure there are still some big holes, but that is what happens when the OS has been so open...err "integrated", over the years. The fact that errant applications become "virtualized" before crashing to help keep system integrity has been a wonder. Just took them a decade to implement a tech they already had.



We are about 65% through our rollout, and with the easy of the tools and high compatibility, expect to be done early next year. I have spent more time planning and discussing schedules than building\testing\imaging\etc. That is huge.
 

R K

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Holy crap. I just can't read all that.



Higher education the only apple I saw were for publication and graphics. I took my DOS GE Class on a dos machine in 1989.



I never said dead did I? Think it was nitch. And in the scheme of things 500 mil was tinker toy money.
 

roshinaya

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Win 7 is what vista shoulda been, it is a great OS. from what little I seen of win 8, no sir I don't like it.



It's most likely gonna suck. It's how the Windows series works. W95 crap, W98 good, WMe crap, Wxp good, WVista crap, W7 good and finally W8 crap?
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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Holy crap. I just can't read all that.



Higher education the only apple I saw were for publication and graphics. I took my DOS GE Class on a dos machine in 1989.



I never said dead did I? Think it was nitch. And in the scheme of things 500 mil was tinker toy money.





Before the tech boom? Hardly in any industry.



Dead and Nitch have been pretty synonymous terms when it comes to Apple's time in the 90's. Though you did mention it was going into obscurity which means dead in the tech industry. But the use of terms is just nit-picky. The point is that they were not that far off the map as popular opinion made them out to be. But popular opinions have some pretty interesting effects, including how history gets re-written.
 

BiscuitintheBasket

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Considering that Xerox was killing the technology, allowed the engineers to buy the patents of the tech they developed, those techs showed it all to Apple, and allowed them to use it hardly makes it stolen. Otherwise Adobe, 3-Com, Novell, and others should have been sued long ago since all companies were born from Xerox-Parc technology. And by the engineers that built or sold that tech.





As far as Jobs issue with Google. It has been sold as a fall out over Google stealing their phone technology for the Android, yet the fallout began before Google released the first Android. In fact one of Google's founders used to sit on Apple's Board.



I sometimes wonder if the issue was more on their failed venture at streaming video. Both invested big bucks into data centers to act as repositories for Google's search and AppleTV (patents were posted by both companies). It has never been given out as to who screwed who, but Google did "invest" in Apple not too long before the "issue".



It will be interesting to see what happens, but I bet that Apple will not license their iOS outside of their products. They will not pull in the same revenue, and owning a market has never been that important to them.
 

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