Round 2 & Beyond

[Willrust]

With just over 1 week until the MLB Draft the #2 pick is going to be used on Appel, Gray, Bryant or Moran. There is also a consistent suggestion that there will be a steady stream of pitchers selected by the Cubs again in this draft. However, there is also a glaring need for catching throughout the organization.

There are 3 highly touted Catchers in the upcoming draft (Reese McGuire, Jon Denney and Nick Ciuffo), all of whom are High School talents and all of which are expected to be gone by the end of the first round. This write-up from beforeitsnews.com has a solid look at some catching candidates for the Cubs. I am not a fan of drafting H.S. catchers with the idea of keeping them there. When you have a young talent that can hit for average and for power, it is typically a good idea to get him away from a position that is notorious for sapping the careers of players. That being said, Arden Pabst has a solid history of catching highly touted pitching prospects. He may also be unsignable.

So what do y'all think? Should the Cubs focus a round or 2 on the Catching position? Should the Cubs utilize a 2nd or 3rd round pick on one of the catchers listed in the beforeitsnews.com article:

http://beforeitsnews.com/sports/201...the-chicago-cubs-should-target-2-2508924.html

Are there any sleepers out there that you see for the 2nd to 15th rounds?

 

[Boobaby1]

With just over 1 week until the MLB Draft the #2 pick is going to be used on Appel, Gray, Bryant or Moran. There is also a consistent suggestion that there will be a steady stream of pitchers selected by the Cubs again in this draft. However, there is also a glaring need for catching throughout the organization.

There are 3 highly touted Catchers in the upcoming draft (Reese McGuire, Jon Denney and Nick Ciuffo), all of whom are High School talents and all of which are expected to be gone by the end of the first round. This write-up from beforeitsnews.com has a solid look at some catching candidates for the Cubs. I am not a fan of drafting H.S. catchers with the idea of keeping them there. When you have a young talent that can hit for average and for power, it is typically a good idea to get him away from a position that is notorious for sapping the careers of players. That being said, Arden Pabst has a solid history of catching highly touted pitching prospects. He may also be unsignable.

So what do y'all think? Should the Cubs focus a round or 2 on the Catching position? Should the Cubs utilize a 2nd or 3rd round pick on one of the catchers listed in the beforeitsnews.com article:

http://beforeitsnews.com/sports/201...the-chicago-cubs-should-target-2-2508924.html

Are there any sleepers out there that you see for the 2nd to 15th rounds?

I am sticking to my guns. I still want to draft Hunter Dozier of Stephen F. Austin or Eric Jagielo of Notre Dame. I don't know if they will last past the 2nd round, but if they do, someone might get a steal. Both are juniors and Dozier is a SS who projects to end up at 3B also.

Dozier's lines are:

212 AB's, .396 AVG, 47 Runs, 84 Hits, 52 RBI's, 25 DBL'S, 17 HR's, 35 SO'S, and 34 BB'S



Eric Jagielo takes home BIG EAST player of the year.

http://www.und.com/sports/m-basebl/spec-rel/052113aac.html

Jagielo, who was second team all-league in 2012, is the fourth player in school history to earn the conference's top honor and first since Craig Cooper in 2006. Notre Dame's two other BIG EAST player of the year winners include Brant Ust (1998) and Steve Stanley (2001 and 2002).

Jagielo not only leads the league in slugging percentage (.643) and on-base percentage (.500), but also ranks second in batting (.390), tied for second in home runs (nine), fifth in total bases (117), tied for fifth in doubles (17), tied for seventh in runs scored, tied for seventh in RBI (49), tied for eighth in walks (31) and tied for ninth in hits (71).

Only four players in the entire country have both a higher batting average (.390) and more home runs (nine) than Jagielo. He still has a chance to be the first Notre Dame player since Cooper in 2006 (.425) to bat .400 over the course of an entire season. He would be the 10th player in the 120-year history of Irish baseball to accomplish the feat.

Jagielo ranks second on the team in multi-hit games (21) and leads the club in multi-RBI outings (14). He has been held hitless in just seven of his 52 games played this year. Jagielo has failed to reach base in a game just twice all year.

 

[Willrust]

I like Jagielo as well, and originally thought he would be a solid pick in the 2nd round. However, there are several mocks that have him going as high as the teens in the 1st round. I just hope neither go to the Cardinals like Sickels is suggesting:

http://www.minorleagueball.com/2013/5/16/4335316/2013-mlb-mock-draft-version-two-john-sickels-may-16

 

[Willrust]

There is quite a bit of buzz regarding Sean Manaea dropping. Several outlets are suggesting that if Manaea does drop out of the 1st round he should go back for his senior year at Indiana State and shoot for the top pick next year.

What if he actually falls to the Cubs in the 2nd round? Doesn't have the stuff, but Manaea could be this years Lucas Giolito.

 

[Rice Cube]

There is quite a bit of buzz regarding Sean Manaea dropping. Several outlets are suggesting that if Manaea does drop out of the 1st round he should go back for his senior year at Indiana State and shoot for the top pick next year.

What if he actually falls to the Cubs in the 2nd round? Doesn't have the stuff, but Manaea could be this years Lucas Giolito.

Cubs would have to punt quite a bit of the rest of the first ten rounds to convince Manaea to sign...they can't really risk losing that part of their pool if they want to throw money at Appel. But I think if Manaea is there you pretty much have to try. I think the injury was more hip-based than arm-based so that's...somewhat reassuring, I guess :shrug:

I like the idea of getting some up-the-middle guys (catchers, SS, CF) with the second-through-fifth round picks though. Make sure they can hit, then move them to another position later if you have to.

 

[dabynsky]

There is quite a bit of buzz regarding Sean Manaea dropping. Several outlets are suggesting that if Manaea does drop out of the 1st round he should go back for his senior year at Indiana State and shoot for the top pick next year.

What if he actually falls to the Cubs in the 2nd round? Doesn't have the stuff, but Manaea could be this years Lucas Giolito.

This is the reason why he doesn't make it to us. A team like Toronto or Washington is going to roll the dice on him with their pick. If he is there definitely take, but I would be shocked to see him make it past the first round, competitive balance picks and the Astros again.

 

[patg006]

With just over 1 week until the MLB Draft the #2 pick is going to be used on Appel, Gray, Bryant or Moran. There is also a consistent suggestion that there will be a steady stream of pitchers selected by the Cubs again in this draft. However, there is also a glaring need for catching throughout the organization.

There are 3 highly touted Catchers in the upcoming draft (Reese McGuire, Jon Denney and Nick Ciuffo), all of whom are High School talents and all of which are expected to be gone by the end of the first round. This write-up from beforeitsnews.com has a solid look at some catching candidates for the Cubs. I am not a fan of drafting H.S. catchers with the idea of keeping them there. When you have a young talent that can hit for average and for power, it is typically a good idea to get him away from a position that is notorious for sapping the careers of players. That being said, Arden Pabst has a solid history of catching highly touted pitching prospects. He may also be unsignable.

So what do y'all think? Should the Cubs focus a round or 2 on the Catching position? Should the Cubs utilize a 2nd or 3rd round pick on one of the catchers listed in the beforeitsnews.com article:

http://beforeitsnews.com/sports/201...the-chicago-cubs-should-target-2-2508924.html

Are there any sleepers out there that you see for the 2nd to 15th rounds?

I do disagree with Boo for the first part, Jagielo from ND, the 3B would be a steal and a half, but I think he gets swept up mid-late 1st because hes a 3b and now the position is a premium.

I like AJ Puk, who is a LHP/1B who is likely to move to SP; Tall at 6'7, 3 pitch pitcher like Josh Johnson. 4 seam which is usually around 92-93, 12-6 which is fantastic for HS levels, but likely needs work, and circle change. Needs to change up some mechanics right now. Right now he is committed to Florida, so slightly more would be needed to pry him. Would love to see this kid round 2. Lots of kinks to work out though as his ceiling stretches from middle relief at lowest to #2 rotation if he perfects everything. Probably would need to develop a 4th pitch. Projected to go 35-40 range

http://www.perfectgame.org/players/playerprofile.aspx?ID=268466

http://www.crawfishboxes.com/2013-m...mlb-draft-profile-aj-puk-lhp-washington-hs-ia

 

[patg006]

There is quite a bit of buzz regarding Sean Manaea dropping. Several outlets are suggesting that if Manaea does drop out of the 1st round he should go back for his senior year at Indiana State and shoot for the top pick next year.

What if he actually falls to the Cubs in the 2nd round? Doesn't have the stuff, but Manaea could be this years Lucas Giolito.

5 pitch LHP who draws comparisons to Chris Sale and is on more than not? The cardinals wouldnt let this pass them. If they did. Ho boy. Appel and Manea.

 

[KBisBack!]

I care more who the Cubs add to the major league team this offseason then who they draft in the second round and beyond.

As should everyone else.

 

[X]

I care more who the Cubs add to the major league team this offseason then who they draft in the second round and beyond.

As should everyone else.

I think most do, but the draft is still important, and there's no real problem w/ it being discussed. :shrug:

 

[KBisBack!]

I think most do, but the draft is still important, and there's no real problem w/ it being discussed. :shrug:

The problem is that many discussing it place more value on the draft than acquiring actual talent for the major league team.

But sadly with the team being so shitty, there is little to talk about with the season other than the draft which is what happens when you throw away full seasons at the major league level.

 

[X]

The problem is that many discussing it place more value on the draft than acquiring actual talent for the major league team.

But sadly with the team being so shitty, there is little to talk about with the season other than the draft which is what happens when you throw away full seasons at the major league level.

Honest question -- not just trying to poke...do you think the Cubs could've added pieces over the last two offseasons to make them contenders? and, if so, who?

 

[KBisBack!]

Honest question -- not just trying to poke...do you think the Cubs could've added pieces over the last two offseasons to make them contenders? and, if so, who?

Yes.

Discussed it too many times before, not going through it again. You can find what I think could have been done.

No guarantees that they would have been contenders, but they certainly would have been better and in life there are no guarantees, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try because there is no guarantee.

No one thought Baltimore would be a contender last year.

No one thought Oakland would be a contender last year.

But they didn't simply throw their hands in the air and say of well, it looks too hard to do so we aren't even going to try like many of the Cub fans are supporting. It has been stated many times that the task of becoming a contender over the last two offseasons looked too hard to do and too unlikely to happen, so it is 100% ok that the Cubs didn't even try. That is just dumb.

 

[SilenceS]

Who cares that the Cubs suck on this thread. We know they do. There is nothing wrong talking draft on a thread. I would still talk about the draft if the Cubs were in first. MLB draft keeps growing with its coverage and its good that fans learn what there clubs are doing. Before, people wouldnt know one prospect from another.

 

[Willrust]

Like it or not, the Cubs are where they are. They have chosen to put more stock in the building the foundation of the franchise through acquiring talented prospects, and the draft is still the best way to acquire young, inexpensive, controllable talent. If you would like to discuss young prospects, let's do that. If you want to play the shoulda, woulda, coulda game by going back in time in your DeLorean;

:gtfo:

There seems to be a nice circle jerk going on in another thread, and you are more than welcome to stay over there. I would rather talk about the future of the Cubs rather than dwell on the past.

 

[AmericanFlyer1]

Like it or not, the Cubs are where they are. They have chosen to put more stock in the building the foundation of the franchise through acquiring talented prospects, and the draft is still the best way to acquire young, inexpensive, controllable talent. If you would like to discuss young prospects, let's do that. If you want to play the shoulda, woulda, coulda game by going back in time in your DeLorean;

:gtfo:

There seems to be a nice circle jerk going on in another thread, and you are more than welcome to stay over there. I would rather talk about the future of the Cubs rather than dwell on the past.

I love that phrase..."building a foundation".

See, when constructing a building, a foundation is built first in order for the rest of the structure to be built. However, this is a false analogy because foundations in construction have been built for many years. They know how and there is a 100% sure fire way of doing it correctly.

Building a franchise is not. Building through the draft is not a foundation. Actually, there are more examples of how it doesn't work than it actually working.

We can play the "shoulda, woulda, coulda" game, but you are doing the same by saying that this method is "building a foundation". You hope. You hope that this method will be done in such a way where Chicago will be a contender for years to come. Hope. That's it. It's not guaranteed.

So before spouting off your typical nonsense of garbage, look in the mirror and see you are doing the exact same thing. Playing a "what if" game.

You are right, the Cubs are where they are. A garbage team, with garbage ownership, and garbage management. But, unlike you, I don't like that. I would rather them build the franchise at both levels.

Have fun in your DeLorean.

 

[Willrust]

I love that phrase..."building a foundation".

See, when constructing a building, a foundation is built first in order for the rest of the structure to be built. However, this is a false analogy because foundations in construction have been built for many years. They know how and there is a 100% sure fire way of doing it correctly.

Building a franchise is not. Building through the draft is not a foundation. Actually, there are more examples of how it doesn't work than it actually working.

We can play the "shoulda, woulda, coulda" game, but you are doing the same by saying that this method is "building a foundation". You hope. You hope that this method will be done in such a way where Chicago will be a contender for years to come. Hope. That's it. It's not guaranteed.

So before spouting off your typical nonsense of garbage, look in the mirror and see you are doing the exact same thing. Playing a "what if" game.

You are right, the Cubs are where they are. A garbage team, with garbage ownership, and garbage management. But, unlike you, I don't like that. I would rather them build the franchise at both levels.

Have fun in your DeLorean.

Go tell the Yankees that building through the draft is needless. Be sure to include Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and Andy Pettitte, in your synopsis.
Go tell the Red Sox that building through the draft is needless. Don't forget to throw in Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Youkilis and Papelbon into your diatribe.
Go tell the Giants that building through the draft is needless. Where did Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner & Posey come from again?
Go tell the Phillies that building through the draft is needless. Ryan Howard, Chase Utley, Cole Hamels and Jimmy Rollins grew on trees right?
Go tell the Cardinals that building through the draft is needless. Did Albert Pujols, Jason Motte, John Jay, Matt Carpenter & Allen Craig arrive by mothership? Tell us all how the Cardinals acquired Adam Wainright & Matt Holliday.

Just because some teams have been better at drafting and developing prospects compared to other organizations doesn't mean you should completely write off the draft. However, I never said that the draft is the only way to build a foundation. I said, "They have chosen to put more stock in the building the foundation of the franchise through acquiring talented prospects, and the draft is still the best way to acquire young, inexpensive, controllable talent."

So, you might want to take a ride on that DeLorean and go back an hour before posting your rant and read what was posted. You might also want to untwist your panties.

 

[patg006]

Go tell the Yankees that building through the draft is needless. Be sure to include Derek Jeter, Bernie Williams and Andy Pettitte, in your synopsis.

Mark Texiera, CC, ARod, AJ Burnett, Nick Swisher, and Johnny Damon from that world series team in 09 say hello.

Go tell the Red Sox that building through the draft is needless. Don't forget to throw in Pedroia, Lester, Buchholz, Ellsbury, Youkilis and Papelbon into your diatribe.

JD Drew, Papi Ortiz, Julio Lugo, Mike Lowell, Coco Crisp, Curt Schilling, Timlin, Dice K, Beckett, and that Manny Ramirez guy say hello.

Go tell the Giants that building through the draft is needless. Where did Lincecum, Cain, Bumgarner & Posey come from again?

Who were their hottest pitchers last postseason while Cain was average, Lincicum was designated to BP duty, and Madison Bumgarner looked out of gas? One of the guys had a 1.09 ERA in the postseason, the other had a 1.69. Where did Barry Zito and Ryan Vogelsong come from? They say hello too.

Just because some teams have been better at drafting and developing prospects compared to other organizations doesn't mean you should completely write off the draft. However, I never said that the draft is the only way to build a foundation. I said, "They have chosen to put more stock in the building the foundation of the franchise through acquiring talented prospects, and the draft is still the best way to acquire young, inexpensive, controllable talent."

So, you might want to take a ride on that DeLorean and go back an hour before posting your rant and read what was posted. You might also want to untwist your panties.

I can keep going on providing counter-examples.

Weve done this song and dance before Will, it ends with your side misconstruing my side saying teams need to do BOTH sign free agents and draft. And when necessary, pull the trigger on a trade. That pesky word that eludes you guys, yet again that 'BOTH.' Need the oxford dictionary definition again?

 

[Willrust]

Mark Texiera, CC, ARod, AJ Burnett, Nick Swisher, and Johnny Damon from that world series team in 09 say hello.



JD Drew, Papi Ortiz, Julio Lugo, Mike Lowell, Coco Crisp, Curt Schilling, Timlin, Dice K, Beckett, and that Manny Ramirez guy say hello.



Who were their hottest pitchers last postseason while Cain was average, Lincicum was designated to BP duty, and Madison Bumgarner looked out of gas? One of the guys had a 1.09 ERA in the postseason, the other had a 1.69. Where did Barry Zito and Ryan Vogelsong come from? They say hello too.



I can keep going on providing counter-examples.

Weve done this song and dance before Will, it ends with your side misconstruing my side saying teams need to do BOTH sign free agents and draft. And when necessary, pull the trigger on a trade. That pesky word that eludes you guys, yet again that 'BOTH.' Need the oxford dictionary definition again?

And, I don't now, nor have I ever had a problem doing both. It just makes more sense to build a foundation of youth and continuity through player development and subsidize that talent with FA's rather than build a foundation of FA's and try to subsidize that talent through youth, especially when the player development aspect of the franchise was basically ignored from early 2000's to the end of 2010.

 

[The Bandit]

And a simple draft thread is derailed. Awesome.