Saints Cut OG Warford

[Black Rainbow]

Yes I do find it funny how Bears fans go from wanting someone to making excuses once Pace decides something else.

OL is a huge need to oh no it isnt because Pace drafted Kmet.

Warford would be a great pickup to oh no he must suck because he remains unsigned and Pace has dropped out.

If Pace signs Warford tomorrow, everyone of you will he claiming it as a great signing so forgive me if I avoid the shifting sands that is a typical homer Bears fan. Just amazing how the argument shifts to justify Pace's actions or inaction.

This is exactly why I clicked on this thread today. I hadn't looked at it in days, and I was pretty sure Warford hadn't been signed. I knew someone would bring up the "if Pace hasn't signed him, he must be old and washed up or there's an injury that hasn't been disclosed...lol.

No, what's really happening is we have a coach and possibly a GM who completely undervalues the offensive line. Maybe they think they're all set? IDK....

 

[remydat]

You are only guessing at those things. You really don't know if any of that is actually true. Maybe the Saints took Ruiz because Warford is a overpaid declining player.

Also I am not a Pace lover at all.

Putting all the Saints speculation aside its still pretty curious he's last this long on the market in comparison to Sitton who was also cut after the draft.

2020 NFL draft - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Well I dont think it is speculation that Ruiz was their BPA because they took him. There is no one taken behind him that I saw consistently graded higher than him. Closest is maybe Swift but they already have Kamara.

His cap hit was 2nd highest on team and he was in final year of a deal. This isnt rocket science. When good vets are in the final year of deals their cap hit is always high and you always have a cut, trade, walk or extend decision. There is really no reason for them to keep him if they arent going to sign him long term and when Ruiz is sitting there.

So sure maybe speculation but this is pretty simple really when you consider his cost, the fact they waited until the draft and the fact Ruiz was clearly one of if not the BPA.

As to why he is still out there well because he was cut after the draft. The Saints really fucked him on that one which is another reason why I think this was more based on BPA. You arent going to fuck over a vet like this unless you werent sure whether you were going to cut him or not. So again all signs point to the decision being made because Ruiz fell into their laps.

 

[remydat]

I find it funny you were advocating giving this guy 8-10 million a year. I was on record immediately that the market is typically pretty dry at this time of year and Pace would have good intelligence on Warford through Loomis.

Not sure your point. I said 8-10 million would get it done and obviously they havent offered it so it isnt done.

Pace just spent 8 million a year on Jimmy Graham at the very start of FA when no one was knocking on his door to pay him that much.

Some of you guys seem more critical of CCS members willing to overpay for a pro bowl guard than you are about Pace actually overpaying for a likely washed up TE.

If we can get him for less then great. If he is holding out for 8-10 and won't sign otherwise then I sure as hell would pay him that before I paid Graham.

Just amazing to me that when Pace overpays for mediocre talent, yall defend him. When he choses not to overpay for a current Pro Bowler, yall want to defend that too.

In closing, if you think I regret saying I would pay him Jimmy Graham money then I dont. Sorry. But if we get him for less then even better.

 

[playthrough2001]

Not sure your point. I said 8-10 million would get it done and obviously they havent offered it so it isnt done.

Pace just spent 8 million a year on Jimmy Graham at the very start of FA when no one was knocking on his door to pay him that much.

Some of you guys seem more critical of CCS members willing to overpay for a pro bowl guard than you are about Pace actually overpaying for a likely washed up TE.

If we can get him for less then great. If he is holding out for 8-10 and won't sign otherwise then I sure as hell would pay him that before I paid Graham.

Just amazing to me that when Pace overpays for mediocre talent, yall defend him. When he choses not to overpay for a current Pro Bowler, yall want to defend that too.

If you think I regret saying I would pay him Jimmy Graham money then I dont. Sorry. But if we get him for less then even better.

My point is you don't understand the current market. Also, Graham doesn't correlate to Warford because Warford was not available when they signed Jimmy. You have zero idea what the market was for Graham. Are you his agent?

I did not defend the Graham signing so your generalizations aren't relevant to me either.

 

[remydat]

My point is you don't understand the current market. Also, Graham doesn't correlate to Warford because Warford was not available when they signed Jimmy. Also, you have zero idea what the market was for Graham. Are you his agent?

I did not defend the Graham signing so your generalizations aren't relevant to me either.

My comment wasnt about the current market. It was about what it would take to sign him immediately which appears to be right as again he is not signed. I really dont care what the current market says.

As to rest of NFL, he might not be worth it to them because they actually have better OL and most other teams with a need addressed in draft prior to 7th round. All that really matters is if he should be worth it to the Bears and the answer for me is yes because we have one of the worst OLs on paper.

So it is irrelevant whether other teams value him as the need isnt as great for them. If Pace ends up putting his faith in Castillo that is fine. It either works and I am wrong or it doesnt and if so then I hope yall support his firing instead of coming up with new excuses.

The point about Graham is Pace overpays when he sees fit so the current market element is a red herring.

And you dont know what Warford is being offered so if you can speculate it is not 8-10 million, I can certainly speculate Graham was overpaid as I have yet to see a single report suggesting others were willing to oay that much. So you just cherry picking when speculation is ok.

 

[playthrough2001]

My comment wasnt about the current market. It was about what it would take to sign him immediately which appears to be right as again he is not signed. I really dont care what the current market says.

As to rest of NFL, he might not be worth it to them because they actually have better OL and most other teams with a need addressed in draft prior to 7th round. All that really matters is if he should be worth it to the Bears and the answer for me is yes because we have one of the worst OLs on paper.

So it is irrelevant whether other teams value him as the need isnt as great for them. If Pace ends up putting his faith in Castillo that is fine. It either works and I am wrong or it doesnt and if so then I hope yall support his firing instead of coming up with new excuses.

The point about Graham is Pace overpays when he sees fit so the current market element is a red herring.

And you dont know what Warford is being offered so if you can speculate it is not 8-10 million, I can certainly speculate Graham was overpaid as I have yet to see a single report suggesting others were willing to oay that much. So you just cherry picking when speculation is ok.

Well I did read he’s looking for a deal at 7 per so he must not be seeing anything like that right now.

Also, I haven’t seen a single report of him being offered anything.

Here’s a pretty fair look at the Graham signing by SI that was released on Friday.

Why Jimmy Graham Rates as Best Fit for the Bears

 

[SlickWilly]

This is exactly why I clicked on this thread today. I hadn't looked at it in days, and I was pretty sure Warford hadn't been signed. I knew someone would bring up the "if Pace hasn't signed him, he must be old and washed up or there's an injury that hasn't been disclosed...lol.

No, what's really happening is we have a coach and possibly a GM who completely undervalues the offensive line. Maybe they think they're all set? IDK....

There are definitely other teams out there that need O-line help. Why haven't they signed him???

 

[remydat]

Well I did read he’s looking for a deal at 7 per so he must not be seeing anything like that right now.

Also, I haven’t seen a single report of him being offered anything.

Here’s a pretty fair look at the Graham signing by SI that was released on Friday.

Why Jimmy Graham Rates as Best Fit for the Bears

You article confirms it was an overpay as it says while it is too much money, the Bears had to have one. Well that is how how I feel about the OL which was the point I was making.

Warford was ranked 13th overall at guard last year. No one on the Bears roster was ranked that high. So he would legitimately be the best OL on the Bears day 1.

So let's ignore what Pace did. If you asked me before FA, if I would rathet have Graham at 8 million or Warford then I take Warford quite easily.

If you prefer Graham then no biggie but what I find silly is this constant fluctuating opinion where people advocate for something but the minute Pace goes in a different direction or it doesnt happen people then try to rationalize it away.

To be clear not speaking about you specifically but the board as a collective. Damn near everyone would be praising Warford if Pace signed him. Now all of a sudden people want to pretend he isn't worth it as if Pace hasn't overpayed for lesser talent than Warford before.

 

[Bearly]

I'm good either way. Overpaying for one doesn't justify overpaying for another. Being 13th ranked NFL G on a VG line means he's likely ranked worse on one less coordinated or talented. He's made Pro Bowls and is a VG run blocker so he's above average overall but very average as a pass defender and picking up guys on stunts etc. I think that's what Pace is looking at since Ifedi can pass protect and should be a fine (though not as good) run blocker inside where both are easier. If he can get his assignments down and not jump, we should be fine inside with better coordination. T is the bigger concern for me right now but I still consider Warford at the right price. I just don't see him as being as big a need as Graham was when acquired now that we have Ifedi.

 

[SugarWalls]

Clowney hasn’t signed yet, and there are definitely teams that need. D line help. Why hasn’t he signed yet??? CCS logic would have you think it’s because he’s a bad player.

 

[kg1187]

Clowney hasn’t signed yet, and there are definitely teams that need. D line help. Why hasn’t he signed yet??? CCS logic would have you think it’s because he’s a bad player.

Most people are saying that CCS might have overrated Warford is the real claim not that he sucks.

 

[Leon Sandcastle]

I couple people say something and its always "CCS thinks this or that".....Blah blah blah. Everyone is defending Pace blah blah.

 

[msadows]

I couple people say something and its always "CCS thinks this or that".....Blah blah blah. Everyone is defending Pace blah blah.

CCS always highly overvalues players not on the bears, and highly undervalues players actually on the bears.

Mostly due to the fact these jabronis don't really even watch any football.

Such is tradition.

 

[playthrough2001]

You article confirms it was an overpay as it says while it is too much money, the Bears had to have one. Well that is how how I feel about the OL which was the point I was making.

Warford was ranked 13th overall at guard last year. No one on the Bears roster was ranked that high. So he would legitimately be the best OL on the Bears day 1.

So let's ignore what Pace did. If you asked me before FA, if I would rathet have Graham at 8 million or Warford then I take Warford quite easily.

If you prefer Graham then no biggie but what I find silly is this constant fluctuating opinion where people advocate for something but the minute Pace goes in a different direction or it doesnt happen people then try to rationalize it away.

To be clear not speaking about you specifically but the board as a collective. Damn near everyone would be praising Warford if Pace signed him. Now all of a sudden people want to pretend he isn't worth it as if Pace hasn't overpayed for lesser talent than Warford before.

Remy, prior to free agency I would have preferred Warford over Graham at that price too. I believe the more competition the better and would still like to see the Bears sign him.

What both of us don’t know is what Castillo and Pace think about Warford and if they received any intel from Loomis. As good as I think Ruiz is going to be, it’s still kind of a head scratching cut.

 

[remydat]

Remy, prior to free agency I would have preferred Warford over Graham at that price too. I believe the more competition the better and would still like to see the Bears sign him.

What both of us don’t know is what Castillo and Pace think about Warford and if they received any intel from Loomis. As good as I think Ruiz is going to be, it’s still kind of a head scratching cut.

If the line plays well this year then it is water under the bridge. I have no problem with Castillo and Pace thinking the line is set. As I said, they just better be right or otherwise they all should be fired. Simple as that. Until I see proof that they are right though, I can only judge based on past history and the past history of this line really fucking sucks.

As to the cut, again not really head scratching to me. He was the 2nd highest paid player with only a year left on his deal. They are not going to sign him to big money when their line is stacked and a younger, cheaper player who was the BPA for them was available. It is a no brainer to me. Why pay 12.9 million to a guy that you can replace for the next four years at around 3 million a year?

 

[remydat]

I'm good either way. Overpaying for one doesn't justify overpaying for another. Being 13th ranked NFL G on a VG line means he's likely ranked worse on one less coordinated or talented. He's made Pro Bowls and is a VG run blocker so he's above average overall but very average as a pass defender and picking up guys on stunts etc. I think that's what Pace is looking at since Ifedi can pass protect and should be a fine (though not as good) run blocker inside where both are easier. If he can get his assignments down and not jump, we should be fine inside with better coordination. T is the bigger concern for me right now but I still consider Warford at the right price. I just don't see him as being as big a need as Graham was when acquired now that we have Ifedi.

His pass blocking has graded out higher than his run blocking in 5 of his 7 years in the NFL so he is pretty good at both. If anything his run blocking is a bit inconsistent as he has had a low grade of 58.4 and a high grade of 80.7. By contrast his pass blocking has never graded out lower than 71.4 and has gone as high as 86.6

Ifedi is more hope than anything as his best pass blocking grade is lower than Warford's lowest and Warford beat him out run blocking in every year but one. His worst pass blocking grade was also his only year at RG ie his rookie year where he was an abysmal 38.4

So a lot rests on this idea that his marginal improvements as a RT which still left him as one of the worst RTs in the NFL will translate into at least average play at RG. We will see if the gamble works.

 

[Bearly]

Ya, I watched some games and while he may grade well on PFF etc, I wasn't that impressed with his pass pro. Maybe they weren't representative but he seemed better at moving people than catching them. I agree that Ifedi has no guarantee of doing well at RG but the new OL coach thinks he can be good there so I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[JesusHalasChrist]

After he was cut one of the Saints writers on the athletic said the team was unhappy with his pass pro and concerned about weight issues.

 

[playthrough2001]

If the line plays well this year then it is water under the bridge. I have no problem with Castillo and Pace thinking the line is set. As I said, they just better be right or otherwise they all should be fired. Simple as that. Until I see proof that they are right though, I can only judge based on past history and the past history of this line really fucking sucks.

As to the cut, again not really head scratching to me. He was the 2nd highest paid player with only a year left on his deal. They are not going to sign him to big money when their line is stacked and a younger, cheaper player who was the BPA for them was available. It is a no brainer to me. Why pay 12.9 million to a guy that you can replace for the next four years at around 3 million a year?

Actually, the cut it is head scratching because the Saints are in win now mode. This is going to be Drew’s last year. If Warford is the player PFF grades him to be, why risk depending on an unproven rookie that is coming into a season where teams can’t even hold OTAs or rookie mini camp? It’s a big risk unless the Saints feel that Warford is just not that good at this point.

 

[vabearsfan15]

I'm truly dumbfounded Warford hasn't been signed. If its true that he was only seeking 7 mil, I don't understand why teams wouldn't shell out the money. It seems like a great value. There are currently 22 other OGs that are getting paid an average of 7 mil or more a year and I doubt many of them have gone to the pro-bowl the last 3 seasons like Warford.