Scam or nah?

[nc0gnet0]

Tastes better. It's only for drinking water. But yeah, I have a neighbor with a sick maple that doesn't seem to care, and the rainwater can(not always) taste a faint of rotten leaf.

Rain water is essentially distilled water. It does however pick up some contaminates in the atmosphere like sulfuric and nitric acid. But still, pushing it through an RO Membrane seems like your wasting a lot. Why not just pass it through a carbon block and then a DI resin bed, then re-mineralize?

And yeah,, plants don't care. I captured all my RO waster water into a 270 gallon tote and watered the lawn/garden with it.

 

[Crystallas]

Rain water is essentially distilled water. It does however pick up some contaminates in the atmosphere like sulfuric and nitric acid. But still, pushing it through an RO Membrane seems like your wasting a lot. Why not just pass it through a carbon block and then a DI resin bed, then re-mineralize?

Because it's not from the air to your mouth. It still is 'harvested'. So run off from the roof and everything that sits in a downspout and flush still gets into the tank. It's all perfectly safe(safer than municipal or typical well water), even the tar infected maple leaves (and for some people pine needles that make for added flavor) aren't a concern that could make anyone sick. It's just a taste preference. Plus since the water isn't particularly hard, I would be going through a lot more activated carbon than I am with RO in total cost, since carbon breaks down similarly, regardless of what is going in(used to have carbon filters).

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

ammonia/salt?

Now we're talking.

 

[nc0gnet0]

Because it's not from the air to your mouth. It still is 'harvested'. So run off from the roof and everything that sits in a downspout and flush still gets into the tank. It's all perfectly safe(safer than municipal or typical well water), even the tar infected maple leaves (and for some people pine needles that make for added flavor) aren't a concern that could make anyone sick. It's just a taste preference. Plus since the water isn't particularly hard, I would be going through a lot more activated carbon than I am with RO in total cost, since carbon breaks down similarly, regardless of what is going in(used to have carbon filters).

I get all what your saying, I don't think you get what I am saying.

Typical RO System is sediment>Carbon Block>RO Membrane
Typical RO/DI system is Sediment>Carbon Block>RO membrane>DI filter

The carbon block will have the most significant impact on taste. I am starting to wonder if you have a true RO system, or rather a "water purification" System. Rain water will typically have a TDS of less than 20, if not even less. Thats as low as most good RO membranes put out. Your carbon will strip out the Dissolved organics, a good block will last you about 6 months.

Not that there is anything inherently wrong with running it through an RO membrane, just that a typical membrane produces 2 gallons of waste water for every 1 gallon of product water. There are more efficient membranes, but then you would need to be running some decent booster pumps to keep your pressure above 100 psi. The DI resin will remove any ions, bringing your TDS to zero. The reason people don't just use DI resin exclusively is because it gets used up so quickly (typical tap being 200-400 TDS), but as your only filtering rain water (20 tds+/-), that wouldn't be the case.

So

Sediment>Carbon Block>DI>re-mineralization>UV = no waste and I would wager the taste would be exactly the same.

How much waste water is your system producing per gallon of product water? How are you feeding the membrane....what kind of pump? You have me very curious.

 

[Crystallas]

This is what I have. https://www.amazon.com/ispring-elegant-tankless-commercial-re4t-compare/dp/b00ew1g9m6 , can't seem to find it on their website, so I guess it's discontinued. Go figure, it is about 5-6 years old, I go in and depressurize then clean it every few months.

I still have replacement carts for it, including some carbon filters, I just don't have any need to use them. Also have no idea how much waste water is being produced. 3:1 seems high though.

Also test my water once a year(or if something seems out of the ordinary) with a kit. Except I buy these for $8-12 when they go on sale. https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-...rd_wg=mSjDo&psc=1&refRID=D5M3VZZERFAC0KH1M0EA


Dunno if that helps answer your questions. Since they discontinued some of the replacements for this model, I'll probably be open to suggestions on something better down the line. I paid $450 for this one, expecting to replace it sometime around 2020.

And BTW, I do appreciate whatever input. I like learning from the aquarium guys, you are on a different level entirely than what a person needs for RWH. I go at this from a pure utility standpoint.

 

[nc0gnet0]

This is what I have. https://www.amazon.com/ispring-elegant-tankless-commercial-re4t-compare/dp/b00ew1g9m6 , can't seem to find it on their website, so I guess it's discontinued. Go figure, it is about 5-6 years old, I go in and depressurize then clean it every few months.

I still have replacement carts for it, including some carbon filters, I just don't have any need to use them. Also have no idea how much waste water is being produced. 3:1 seems high though.

Also test my water once a year(or if something seems out of the ordinary) with a kit. Except I buy these for $8-12 when they go on sale. https://www.amazon.com/First-Alert-...rd_wg=mSjDo&psc=1&refRID=D5M3VZZERFAC0KH1M0EA


Dunno if that helps answer your questions. Since they discontinued some of the replacements for this model, I'll probably be open to suggestions on something better down the line. I paid $450 for this one, expecting to replace it sometime around 2020.

And BTW, I do appreciate whatever input. I like learning from the aquarium guys, you are on a different level entirely than what a person needs for RWH. I go at this from a pure utility standpoint.

http://reverseosmosisaquariumfilter.blogspot.com/2011/12/ispring-400-gpd-light-commercial.html

It look like that on the inside? It's a decent unit, albeit a little over priced. So how do you feed the rain water to it? It does have it's own little booster pump, so it might be able to do 2:1 waste to RO. Get your self a cheap little TDS meter, like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HM-Digital...169615&hash=item567f0c5b18:g:1scAAMXQS6pRvc2x

It will tell you a lot. When you clean it, do you flush the membrane? To do this you want to remove the restrictor valve.

 

[Tater]

 

[Crystallas]

http://reverseosmosisaquariumfilter.blogspot.com/2011/12/ispring-400-gpd-light-commercial.html

It look like that on the inside? It's a decent unit, albeit a little over priced. So how do you feed the rain water to it? It does have it's own little booster pump, so it might be able to do 2:1 waste to RO. Get your self a cheap little TDS meter, like this:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HM-Digital...169615&hash=item567f0c5b18:g:1scAAMXQS6pRvc2x

It will tell you a lot. When you clean it, do you flush the membrane? To do this you want to remove the restrictor valve.

Details, details...

Link to compare wont load for me. At least beyond the header data, so I'm guessing my browser config and tracker blocking doesn't like the site. Nvm, yep, it loaded. That's it.

I have a 150psi pressure tank that is near the main harvesting tank. The collection tank is buried(just under 5k gal), barely any gravity assist, so I need the pressure tank, however, it's not as deep as an actual well, so even if the bladder on the pressure tank is low, every faucet will get some flow. All of it is around 13 years old now, and that was the plan, to see how long this solution could/would and wind up costing less than getting municipal water or drilling a well and being on the hook for softening. Never intended it to be a burdensome hobby, and I'm quite happy when people try to compare my time used for maintenance to their buying, hauling, storing bottled water. So part of the goal is to keep the overall maintenance under an hour a year. Yes, clean the membrane, clean the whole thing. When I'm comfortable with weather patterns, I shock the tank(I say shock, but it's like a pint of bleach, not like how some people do their swimming pools weekly) in the late spring every year(and that water gets pumped into the gray water tank, which is small and above ground 3-400~ gal tank(I think, all I know is that it's slightly overkill) that basically pumps to the toilets. Oh yeah, the pumps, I have two, don't ask me what kind, and one sealed pump for septic that I have never touched. These I did not install myself.

I do have a TDS meter somewhere in the garage. But I still like the kits. Maybe the newer meters are better and I should consider getting a better one instead?

Hmm, what else. Instant water heater in the attic for the house and a 29/30 gal traditional heater in the basement that helps mostly in the winter with anode rod removed and have zero issues up to this point.

Oh, and I have a LED UV cap on my tank. UV tanks weren't really a thing when I got into this, so that was retrofitted. I don't know off the top of my head what brand it is. Plus, we're spoiled by the internet now. A lot of what you can get now was not the same in 2005 when I built my house.


lol, anything else? Water pern fer nerds?

You know your shit better than I do. Like I said, I got into this for basic concerns and economics. Also, active environmentalism, and not just brushing problems onto outrage culture. I'm probably not optimized, but when it comes time to replace a few big things, I'll know to hit you up.


What do you use for your house water? Tap?

 

[dweebs19]

some homies in 3rd world countries been on that raw water bs for years. Nothing new.

 

[nc0gnet0]

The two tests are for totally different things, your test doesn’t check membrane health per say. It’s a good test for potable water though. I am very curious the tds of your input water vs the tds of your output water (before you re-mineralize). I have a pretty good picture of your filtration system now. What are you using for collection? Your roof? Are you able to collect enough water for all your usage?

 

[Adipost]

Just a couple, have many more, unfortunately most saved on photobucket.

First pic actually has a few fry on it.

That’s pretty amazing, are you still doing this?

 

[nc0gnet0]

That’s pretty amazing, are you still doing this?

I have been taking a break for a few months, it was a lot of work. I started out with just a few tanks, and over time it grew to 28. Still president of a national club, probably will resume after our show in July. I need to make some changes to the fish room setup, this can only be accomplished by first getting rid of the fish I had. The reason for the dialogue with Crys is I am intrigued by his setup, and it’s feasibility to be incorporated into my setup. Water was a major expense for me,that an electricity to heat the tanks. I’m on municipal tap, but do have a second water meter for agriculture on my house. Had to install a special backflow preventer and pay to install and purchase the second meter, but now I don’t pay sewage costs for the water I use in the fish room.

 

[Crystallas]

The two tests are for totally different things, your test doesn’t check membrane health per say. It’s a good test for potable water though. I am very curious the tds of your input water vs the tds of your output water (before you re-mineralize). I have a pretty good picture of your filtration system now. What are you using for collection? Your roof? Are you able to collect enough water for all your usage?

True. I guess I don't use it because it's all predictable enough that I'm going to clean and replace parts on interval anyways.

Using the roof, gutter system(designed for this stuff) and downspouts. I do need to be conscious of certain weather patterns before doing certain maintenance. But other than that, the tank will fill up relatively quick from nothing. The rule of thumb is 1" of rainfall per 1000 sq/ft roof is around 800 gallons(my roof is considerably larger). But there are things you can do to improve collections. With a gray water system(which is just plumb and tank) a person winds up averaging 40 gallons per day of rainwater use. So you can do the math. Even when we had a good drought, tank didn't get to the pump shutoff warning. Although if one more person lived in the house, we might have. Consumption is an environmentalism variable as well IMO.

 

[Crystallas]

I have been taking a break for a few months, it was a lot of work. I started out with just a few tanks, and over time it grew to 28. Still president of a national club, probably will resume after our show in July. I need to make some changes to the fish room setup, this can only be accomplished by first getting rid of the fish I had. The reason for the dialogue with Crys is I am intrigued by his setup, and it’s feasibility to be incorporated into my setup. Water was a major expense for me,that an electricity to heat the tanks. I’m on municipal tap, but do have a second water meter for agriculture on my house. Had to install a special backflow preventer and pay to install and purchase the second meter, but now I don’t pay sewage costs for the water I use in the fish room.

The fish/coral side of all this stuff is legit. Not quite as applicable for human use, but fascinating. What made you interested in home aquatics? Seeing the lengthy investment both time and cost, what kept you motivated?

 

[nc0gnet0]

True. I guess I don't use it because it's all predictable enough that I'm going to clean and replace parts on interval anyways.

Using the roof, gutter system(designed for this stuff) and downspouts. I do need to be conscious of certain weather patterns before doing certain maintenance. But other than that, the tank will fill up relatively quick from nothing. The rule of thumb is 1" of rainfall per 1000 sq/ft roof is around 800 gallons(my roof is considerably larger). But there are things you can do to improve collections. With a gray water system(which is just plumb and tank) a person winds up averaging 40 gallons per day of rainwater use. So you can do the math. Even when we had a good drought, tank didn't get to the pump shutoff warning. Although if one more person lived in the house, we might have. Consumption is an environmentalism variable as well IMO.

Tell me more about your roof? I figured this was the collection method. Is it a metal roof? Do you let the first few moments of rain "wash" the roof before collection, or do you capture ALL the rain from the roof? How often do you clean the gutters? Not afraid of the bird feces, dead animals, leaf compost in the gutters? Do you live in the Chicago area (for purpose of annual rain fall averages)?

 

[nc0gnet0]

The fish/coral side of all this stuff is legit. Not quite as applicable for human use, but fascinating. What made you interested in home aquatics? Seeing the lengthy investment both time and cost, what kept you motivated?

Like I said earlier, I am a genetics nut. Always have been curious of the result between different cross's, and being able to predict and track the results. I actually started out with Koi, but you need A LOT of real estate for breeding them, so I migrated to an indoor fish, and domestic discus had the most to work with (imo). I had quite an extensive library of cross's tracking the results from egg to adulthood stored on another forum (one dedicated to that hobby) but Photobucket ruined that for me. Discus are one of the most fascinating fish to raise, with a very unique egg>fry>young juvenile phase (rays are cool too). After a while I got involved in a national club, and then eventually became president (this is my second {and last} term).

https://www.facebook.com/DiscusNADA/
http://www.discusnada.org/2018NADAdiscusshow/
http://www.discusnada.org

 

[Crystallas]

Tell me more about your roof? I figured this was the collection method. Is it a metal roof? Do you let the first few moments of rain "wash" the roof before collection, or do you capture ALL the rain from the roof? How often do you clean the gutters? Not afraid of the bird feces, dead animals, leaf compost in the gutters? Do you live in the Chicago area (for purpose of annual rain fall averages)?

Sealed copper roof, looks like dark brown shingles, not reddish or green. Gutters have leaf screens on them, clean them once a year, but since nothing really gets trapped it's easier than standard gutters. There's a flush valve that dumps initial pour into a drainage channel.
And yes, live in the area. I also have a neighbor a few houses down that also does RWH. We try to convince people who are on well water to consider making the investment from time to time (plus we don't want people building a system that winds up caving in existing wells out of their own impatience and cost cutting). Even if I don't use a water well, they are important for a number of things. Anything else?

BTW, My setup is old, there are newer, better ways of doing all of this. Some people like sump systems that pump water to a gravity tank on their roof, you have windmill methods for pumping(which means you kind of need to design the system around it), and you have [my biggest regret] designs that take better advantage of UV lighting (artificial, actual LED UV lighting in the tank, you do this because sunlight can raise water temps to 70 degrees in the summer, no bueno).

 

[nc0gnet0]

Sealed copper roof, looks like dark brown shingles, not reddish or green. Gutters have leaf screens on them, clean them once a year, but since nothing really gets trapped it's easier than standard gutters. There's a flush valve that dumps initial pour into a drainage channel.
And yes, live in the area. I also have a neighbor a few houses down that also does RWH. We try to convince people who are on well water to consider making the investment from time to time (plus we don't want people building a system that winds up caving in existing wells out of their own impatience and cost cutting). Even if I don't use a water well, they are important for a number of things. Anything else?

BTW, My setup is old, there are newer, better ways of doing all of this. Some people like sump systems that pump water to a gravity tank on their roof, you have windmill methods for pumping(which means you kind of need to design the system around it), and you have [my biggest regret] designs that take better advantage of UV lighting (artificial, actual LED UV lighting in the tank, you do this because sunlight can raise water temps to 70 degrees in the summer, no bueno).

Ok,, this is what I was picturing, looks like the biggest investment is the roof itself. Why not just use inline uv after the storage tank? But yeah, I had to flush my storage tanks periodically as well with Bleach, then de-chlorinate with sodium thiosulphate. I was replacing RO membranes about every 3-4 months, using 4-5 of them. But my tap is liquid rock, with a tds of around 350 ppm, using Rain water would significantly increase the membrane life. Do you have a fundamental understanding of how the membranes work in an RO system?

I am actually quite well versed in UV lighting as well, albeit from an aquaculture side of things and not drinking water. I still have about 16 of those things laying around the house.

btw, have you ever seen a house setup for both Solar and water collection? Can it still be done with huge solar panels on the roof?

 

[Crystallas]

Ok,, this is what I was picturing, looks like the biggest investment is the roof itself. Why not just use inline uv after the storage tank? But yeah, I had to flush my storage tanks periodically as well with Bleach, then de-chlorinate with sodium thiosulphate. I was replacing RO membranes about every 3-4 months, using 4-5 of them. But my tap is liquid rock, with a tds of around 350 ppm, using Rain water would significantly increase the membrane life. Do you have a fundamental understanding of how the membranes work in an RO system?

I am actually quite well versed in UV lighting as well, albeit from an aquaculture side of things and not drinking water. I still have about 16 of those things laying around the house.

btw, have you ever seen a house setup for both Solar and water collection? Can it still be done with huge solar panels on the roof?

Copper back then was a lot cheaper than copper now. It's a 100 year rated roof. Compared to 10-20 year shingles.
I went copper because my house is rammed earth(also something that costs more now than it did back then). You can use whatever shingle roof for RWH. You can use whatever roof for rammed earth too, but the whole point was this home was designed to be ultra low maintenance. Instead of spending money down the line on sustaining bad tech and insulation methods, I just put it up front on things like this. Also have solar panels on the roof, changes nothing. I drive a 12 year old entry level car, I don't wear designer clothes. But I am proud of my home.

 

[AussieBear]

copper roof... so where do u live?