Schanowski: Should Bulls get involved in Howard trade talks?

Should Bulls get involved in Howard trade talks?

  • Yes

    Votes: 10 52.6%
  • No

    Votes: 4 21.1%
  • Only if he agrees to sign an extension

    Votes: 5 26.3%

  • Total voters
    19

clonetrooper264

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Unless you believe that the Magic has something more than Kobe and Gasol, Bynum would make the Magic a much worse Lakers team and definitely a non playoff team. Without Howard the rest of them wouldn't have made the playoffs if there were 5 more games in the regular season.

The Magic wouldn't make the playoffs without Howard because that team is just not a good team. They live and die by the 3 and you can't expect to win playoff games like that anyway. But having Bynum gives them more of a chance than like Noah and whoever else because at least Bynum can score inside. He's probably the 2nd best center in the league and if you're giving up Howard that's pretty good return. Granted the gap between Howard and Bynum is pretty big, but giving Noah and Brewer and whoever probably still makes them worse.

And Pau averaged like 12 points per game this year in the playoffs. He was pretty much a non factor. Kobe was pretty much trying to do it all himself because his teammates weren't getting it done.
 

thechosenone

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So you believe that Bynum with the current Orlando roster would make a better team than Deng,Noah,Taj and CJ Watson?

Won't they become a lot worse than that?

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Because that is Orlando WITH Howard playing against the Roseless Bulls on their court.
 
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FirstTimer

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So you believe that Bynum with the current Orlando roster would make a better team than Deng,Noah,Taj and CJ Watson?

Won't they become a lot worse than that?

scaled.php


Because that is Orlando WITH Howard playing against the Roseless Bulls on their court.
Trade couldn't happen. Salaries have to match.
 

clonetrooper264

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So you believe that Bynum with the current Orlando roster would make a better team than Deng,Noah,Taj and CJ Watson?

Won't they become a lot worse than that?

scaled.php


Because that is Orlando WITH Howard playing against the Roseless Bulls on their court.

I'm sure I could find another picture of the Bulls with Rose losing to the Magic by 20 points. One game means jack.

And yes I think that Bynum would make the current roster better because he can score. He actually has some post moves too, unlike Howard. And he doesn't shoot 50% from the free throw line. Sure they wouldn't be as good, but they wouldn't be taking enormous steps backwards. Noah can't score. Taj can't score. Watson is inconsistent. Deng is a system player and that system of jacking up 3s will make him more of a 14 ppg scorer than a 17-20 ppg scorer.
 

thechosenone

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I have one thing to say and I won't write in this thread again.

With Thibs as a coach Boozer had the 7th best defensive rating in the league in 2010-11 AND the 2nd best defensive rating in the league this year.
NBA & ABA Yearly Top 10 Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating | Basketball-Reference.com

IMAGINE WHAT THIBS CAN DO WITH HOWARD OR JOSH SMITH. We can get one of them for sure no matter what Bulls roster haters would say. We have enough to trade.
 

RC_Skinny22

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I have one thing to say and I won't write in this thread again.

With Thibs as a coach Boozer had the 7th best defensive rating in the league in 2010-11 AND the 2nd best defensive rating in the league this year.
NBA & ABA Yearly Top 10 Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating | Basketball-Reference.com

IMAGINE WHAT THIBS CAN DO WITH HOWARD OR JOSH SMITH. We can get one of them for sure no matter what Bulls roster haters would say. We have enough to trade.


This might be the best reason to tell people not to watch stats, but watch the games!
 

thechosenone

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You don't care. I don't care too. But what Thibs can do with more talented players is obvious. If he managed to make this piece of shit be considered a good defender from everyone else but the Bulls fans (because other team fans don't watch every Bulls game) and from scouters (so his trading value is a bit higher now than what we think it was), I DO WANT to see what he can do with Howard or Smith and I want to see it this year that DRose will be out.
 

thechosenone

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This might be the best reason to tell people not to watch stats, but watch the games!

Or tell people that stats don't lie when it is in favor of our opinions and are a bullshit when they show something we don't believe.

I actually believe that stats never lie. You can see all the top10s in that list from all the years. ALL of them well deserved to be there. Buut Boozer hmm you know we don't like him, he sucks, he is stupid blah blah blah..Yes stats are stupid.

PS.I don't like Boozer at all. I hate the guy. The faster we trade him the better for me. But I won't call a whole science stupid because Boozer had the #2 def rating in the league. He was just did it under our radar.
 

RC_Skinny22

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Or tell people that stats don't lie when it is in favor of our opinions and are a bullshit when they show something we don't believe.

I actually believe that stats never lie. You can see all the top10s in that list from all the years. ALL of them well deserved to be there. Buut Boozer hmm you know we don't like him, he sucks, he is stupid blah blah blah..Yes stats are stupid.

PS.I don't like Boozer at all. I hate the guy. The faster we trade him the better for me. But I won't call a whole science stupid because Boozer had the #2 def rating in the league. He was just did it under our radar.

Just a thought:

You have to guard a high scoring PF. (There are more scoring PF than scoring C)

Noah is quick on his feet. So you let Noah guard the offensive minded PF and Boozer guards the offensively worse C.

Boom there you go. Boozer gets more defensive points because his opponent doesn´t score that much. That´s what the stats say.

The real game said Noah was the one who played defense!
 

Diddy1122

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Just a thought:

You have to guard a high scoring PF. (There are more scoring PF than scoring C)

Noah is quick on his feet. So you let Noah guard the offensive minded PF and Boozer guards the offensively worse C.

Boom there you go. Boozer gets more defensive points because his opponent doesn´t score that much. That´s what the stats say.

The real game said Noah was the one who played defense!

^ This.

Though I will add that Boozer has improved on D over the past 2 seasons. He's gone from raw sewage to garbage disposal waste. Gotta look at the positives people! :D
 

thechosenone

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But both Noah and Gibson are great defenders and both of them are top10 in that list. Maybe you are right and Boozer is a bit favored there and Noah's rating should be a bit higher but no. Boozer can't have a so high defensive rating by guarding the worst player. He just had a great defensive year. If it worked that way then Kobe would had the highest defensive rating by far. He is always picking the worst player in the court to guard. And that list wouldn't be full of great defenders but full of shitty players who play in the same team with a great defender. lol
 

thechosenone

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Gotta look at the positives people! :D
That's what I am doing. So...

TRADE BOOZER NOW.

That's all that matters.

YO.

Somebody will be interested and give us a more talented player back that Thibs can make him a real beast defensively. Josh Smith for Boozer campaign starts NOW. :D
 

RC_Skinny22

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If it worked that way then Kobe would had the highest defensive rating by far. He is always picking the worst player in the court to guard.

Kobe picked the worst player to guard? I must have watched another league then.
 

Glide2keva

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No, they aren't.

TS% is an amalgamation of three shooting percentages mashed up into one number + a 1.44 point given for FT's. It's bullshit because it can show someone having better game than they actually did because they may happen to be a great FT shooter. That will always bump the total percentage up, even if they shot terrible from the field. It's a weak stat.

PER is just some number John Hollinger pulled out of his as and then admittedly reworked so Michael Jordan would always come out on top.

Read this about PER

Problems With PER

PER largely measures offensive performance. Hollinger freely admits that two of the defensive statistics it incorporates -- blocks and steals -- can produce a distorted picture of a player's value and that PER is not a reliable measure of a player's defensive acumen. For example, Bruce Bowen, widely regarded as one of the best defenders in the NBA (at least through the 2006-07 season), has routinely posted single-digit PERs.

"Bear in mind that this rating is not the final, once-and-for-all answer for a player's accomplishments during the season. This is especially true for players such as Bruce Bowen and Trenton Hassell who are defensive specialists but don't get many blocks or steals."

The formula of PER requires adding values with different units which is prohibited by unit analysis. For example, the formula adds assists to rebounds with no conversion factor.

In addition, some have argued that PER gives undue weight to a player's contribution in limited minutes, or against a team's second unit, and it undervalues players who have enough diversity in their game to play starter's minutes.

Lastly, PER rewards inefficient shooting. To quote Dave Berri, the author of The Wages of Wins:

"Hollinger argues that each two point field goal made is worth about 1.65 points. A three point field goal made is worth 2.65 points. A missed field goal, though, costs a team 0.72 points. Given these values, with a bit of math we can show that a player will break even on his two point field goal attempts if he hits on 30.4% of these shots. On three pointers the break-even point is 21.4%. If a player exceeds these thresholds, and virtually every NBA player does so with respect to two-point shots, the more he shoots the higher his value in PERs. So a player can be an inefficient scorer and simply inflate his value by taking a large number of shots."

Problems with PER Projections

The projections are built by looking at comparable players at the same age and how their stats changed in the following season. For players in most age brackets, this is extremely reliable, but there have been so few players to turn pro out of high school in the past two decades that there is a very small sample to work with. While some players who have come out of high school have shown a lot of promise in their future years, many have floundered and never quite reached their full potential.
In other words, Bullshit stat is Bullshit.

Also, FG%, 3-point%, FT% are all you need. Why? Simple, when you look at stats like TS%, you get one number, but it doesn't tell you shit because it doesn't break down ANYTHING that happened on the floor. So what will you ALWAYS wind up having to do?

That's it, you guessed it, go right back to looking at the RAW stats. Then, you can see, he shot this way from the floor, this way from 3 and this way from the FT line. Then you'll know EXACTLY what he did and by this, you can even count up how many points he from and from where, that's something you can't get from TS%, which is what makes it a bullshit stat and not advanced at all. It's a worse stat due to it's ease of manipulation.

But yeah, go ahead and go with those BS stats that really don't tell you anything that happened on the floor.

One more thing about PER, look at how it is calculated.

When have to do all of THIS for a basketball stat, you need to stop.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Player_efficiency_rating
 
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