Schwarber is back!

[TC in Mississippi]

I mean that's speculation on your part no? I didn't hear his exact comment so I could be wrong but I've read nothing from the scouting community that indicates that CF is even a remote possibility. And again, my question would be that even if that info is coming from the organization why now would they move him to CF? They had both Baez Castro when they drafted him and Alcantara was some what decently thought of. I think at the time Lake was also playing 3B. And I believe they had both Olt and Villanueva at the time. So they had a crowded infield before adding him to the equation. It's a lot harder to find a quality CF than it is to find a 3B. So, if they thought CF was even possible why wouldn't they let it play out like they have with Schwarber at C which is to say play him there until he can't?

That doesn't strike anyone else as odd? Like I said, I'm not trying to be a know it all here and pick a fight but it really doesn't make any sense to me. Bryant didn't even play CF in college as far as I'm aware he played RF.

It may not make a lot of sense but I think the Cubs are looking at all their options and I believe Bryant is one. Is he the most likely one? Highly doubtful but Kasper hasn't said this once he's said it several times with the tone of that he's heard it bandied about. I think these guys are all about value and while they're end goal is to have a very good defensive team and a very good hitting squad at the same time I think the path might be as narrow as some think. They may take chances. I'm not going to get bent out of shape about that. Would Bryant be any good in CF? I don't know, neither do you and we may find out or we may not. I find all of it fascinating.

 

[beckdawg]

Bryant has the speed to play CF. It's highly logical to connect the dots with the personnel issues they have. The "scouting community" isn't handling those personnel issues. The Cubs FO is. Feel free to continue the dick posts. It's entertaining. The forum can use the traffic.

You say things like "has the speed to play CF" but then offer nothing to substantiate your claims. If that's your personal view fine. But it is in contrast of what people who are more connected to scouting feel. If you have a cubs source saying this on record then by all means link me and I'll read it. I am not implying the scouting community is 100% right all of the time. The cubs don't view Schwarber similarly to them. But they also have shown this view by playing him there for most of his time with the organization. Bryant has nothing like this. He's played 9 innings in CF as a cub when they were short benched and had several injuries.

And again I'll ask the question if the scouting community is so far out of tune with what the front office views then why trade for Fowler to start the season? They had Valbuena who they liked and who could play 3B. He made less money than Fowler and in trading for Fowler they had to give up Straly who isn't amazing but it's still giving up an asset. If Bryant had any realistic shot of playing CF why not start him there in spring training and use Alcantara or Szczur to get buy the 2 weeks or whatever it was Bryant was in AAA and call Bryant up as a CF? What the front office has said about Bryant is that he's a 3B. When people continually tried to push him to LF so Baez could play 3B or Russell they said Bryant was a 3B. So why suddenly during the middle of the season no less after continually insisting he was a 3B do they just totally change their mind and play him in CF?

I don't think any of these questions or previous ones I've asked are unreasonable.

 

[Parade_Rain]

You say things like "has the speed to play CF" but then offer nothing to substantiate your claims. If that's your personal view fine. But it is in contrast of what people who are more connected to scouting feel. If you have a cubs source saying this on record then by all means link me and I'll read it. I am not implying the scouting community is 100% right all of the time. The cubs don't view Schwarber similarly to them. But they also have shown this view by playing him there for most of his time with the organization. Bryant has nothing like this. He's played 9 innings in CF as a cub when they were short benched and had several injuries.

And again I'll ask the question if the scouting community is so far out of tune with what the front office views then why trade for Fowler to start the season? They had Valbuena who they liked and who could play 3B. He made less money than Fowler and in trading for Fowler they had to give up Straly who isn't amazing but it's still giving up an asset. If Bryant had any realistic shot of playing CF why not start him there in spring training and use Alcantara or Szczur to get buy the 2 weeks or whatever it was Bryant was in AAA and call Bryant up as a CF? What the front office has said about Bryant is that he's a 3B. When people continually tried to push him to LF so Baez could play 3B or Russell they said Bryant was a 3B. So why suddenly during the middle of the season no less after continually insisting he was a 3B do they just totally change their mind and play him in CF?

I don't think any of these questions or previous ones I've asked are unreasonable.

Dear Gawd. Just stop. Bryant has already played CF for the Cubs and in college as SilenceS posted. I don't know which "scouts" you are referencing, but maybe none of them played past high school. It sounds like it anyway.

 

[beckdawg]

It may not make a lot of sense but I think the Cubs are looking at all their options and I believe Bryant is one. Is he the most likely one? Highly doubtful but Kasper hasn't said this once he's said it several times with the tone of that he's heard it bandied about. I think these guys are all about value and while they're end goal is to have a very good defensive team and a very good hitting squad at the same time I think the path might be as narrow as some think. They may take chances. I'm not going to get bent out of shape about that. Would Bryant be any good in CF? I don't know, neither do you and we may find out or we may not. I find all of it fascinating.

Fair enough but if they are keeping their options open then why this pretty firm belief with sticking players in one position? I mean presumably we could extend this line of reasoning to Schwarber and LF as it's obviously a natural transition. Schwarber DH'd when not C and hasn't played LF this year. If CF is a possibility for Bryant why not give him a few looks in ST and play him some there in AAA last season? Not saying it has to be daily or anything but we saw this with Alcantara when Baez kicked him off 2B.

This all seems to stem from something an announcer is saying and the fact Bryant played 9 innings in CF early in the season. There haven't been any reports as far as I'm aware of someone with the cubs saying something like, "We think he could play CF but we want to see how he fairs at 3B." Something like they did with Baez where they(believe it was Hoyer) said and I might be misquoting this but they thought he was a middle infielder but might see some time at 3B and probably could play LF if they asked him to. All of the focus on Bryant has from the FO has been on 3B.

And yet again I'll ask would Baez not be a better defender in CF if the move of Bryant is to get Baez into the line up? It would seem that would be a far more feasible play too as you could start Baez in CF when he returns to AAA so he wouldn't be rusty for whenever he gets called up.

I guess what I'm asking here is what is the goal? To get Fowler out of CF? To get Baez into the line up? Why do you need to move Bryant to do either of those things?

 

[beckdawg]

Dear Gawd. Just stop. Bryant has already played CF for the Cubs and in college as SilenceS posted. I don't know which "scouts" you are referencing, but maybe none of them played past high school. It sounds like it anyway.

And John Baker threw relief for the cubs last year what's your point? A lot of people play out of position when injuries happen.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Fair enough but if they are keeping their options open then why this pretty firm belief with sticking players in one position? I mean presumably we could extend this line of reasoning to Schwarber and LF as it's obviously a natural transition. Schwarber DH'd when not C and hasn't played LF this year. If CF is a possibility for Bryant why not give him a few looks in ST and play him some there in AAA last season? Not saying it has to be daily or anything but we saw this with Alcantara when Baez kicked him off 2B.

This all seems to stem from something an announcer is saying and the fact Bryant played 9 innings in CF early in the season. There haven't been any reports as far as I'm aware of someone with the cubs saying something like, "We think he could play CF but we want to see how he fairs at 3B." Something like they did with Baez where they(believe it was Hoyer) said and I might be misquoting this but they thought he was a middle infielder but might see some time at 3B and probably could play LF if they asked him to. All of the focus on Bryant has from the FO has been on 3B.

And yet again I'll ask would Baez not be a better defender in CF if the move of Bryant is to get Baez into the line up? It would seem that would be a far more feasible play too as you could start Baez in CF when he returns to AAA so he wouldn't be rusty for whenever he gets called up.

I guess what I'm asking here is what is the goal? To get Fowler out of CF? To get Baez into the line up? Why do you need to move Bryant to do either of those things?

Maybe that's what they will do. Again, who knows? It's not just about what Kasper said it's the seeming willingness of this team to just do whatever at the moment. Obviously Schwarber is going to play some LF because they've said he's not the full time catcher and you're not going to have that guy on the bench 5 days a week. Maybe Coghlan plays some 2B again or maybe he's traded for a rental to fill one of these positions. Everything is wide open. Do I think Bryant will play CF this year? Probably not but it wouldn't surprise me. Nothing would surprise me at this point. That's all I'm saying. This all seems like an argument about how remote a possibility or possibilities might be and I don't see where that gets us. Time for the second half. Batten down the hatches and let's have fun with this team. I honestly have nothing else to add.

 

[beckdawg]

Maybe that's what they will do. Again, who knows? It's not just about what Kasper said it's the seeming willingness of this team to just do whatever at the moment. Obviously Schwarber is going to play some LF because they've said he's not the full time catcher and you're not going to have that guy on the bench 5 days a week. Maybe Coghlan plays some 2B again or maybe he's traded for a rental to fill one of these positions. Everything is wide open. Do I think Bryant will play CF this year? Probably not but it wouldn't surprise me. Nothing would surprise me at this point. That's all I'm saying. This all seems like an argument about how remote a possibility or possibilities might be and I don't see where that gets us. Time for the second half. Batten down the hatches and let's have fun with this team. I honestly have nothing else to add.

I just don't understand it and I'm trying to come to grips with the thought process is all. I've not heard anyone mention this before this thread and I'm having trouble grasping what the end game is. Since I haven't heard the stories I'm asking a lot of questions so maybe someone makes sense of it for me. For example, is the end game here to play Bryant in CF long term or is this supposed to be just some sort of short term fix because Fowler isn't hitting like you want? Ultimately, you would expect them to play Bryant where they think he fits long term. From literally every thing I've read coming from the team they've said 3B over and over again, hence the questions. If I'm bothering you with this and want me to drop it just say so but I honestly am just trying to understand this.

I just don't even see the set of circumstance needed in order to even be considering him at CF and hence someone in the org. mentioning it to Kasper. After kicking out Fowler, not promoting Alcantara and not trading for a CF you'd presumably have to come to Baez as the next best option assuming no crazy like Almora to MLB play like they did with Russell. He runs better than Bryant and has as much if not more experience in CF. In order to choose Bryant you'd have to view him as a better long term player there. If he's the better long term player there why are we only now talking about CF? That's where it all falls apart for me.

Has anyone outside of Kasper brought this up? I read a lot but clearly I can't read everything so maybe I just missed something from GW or ESPNChicago. I'm honestly asking that not trying to use it as proof of it being a bad idea.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

The first mention of it I heard was a blurb in a Paul Sullivan column 6 or 7 weeks ago talking about Almora's regression and possible CF options for 2016. Shortly after Kasper was asked about it on the score and said he believed the Cubs were indeed considering the idea, again for 2016 as a bridge to Almora or to some other player if he failed. Shortly after Maddon was asked about it on his Score appearance and he neither confirmed or denied but said Bryant would succeed in whatever he was asked to do. Kasper was asked about it again several weeks later and maintained that while he wouldn't predict he wouldn't be surprised. Again no one has mentioned 2015 to my knowledge but if he were already being considered there for next year and Fowler continued to struggle it would stand to reason that it's could be an option. A likely one? Probably not but not as out there as some may think.

 

[beckdawg]

The first mention of it I heard was a blurb in a Paul Sullivan column 6 or 7 weeks ago talking about Almora's regression and possible CF options for 2016. Shortly after Kasper was asked about it on the score and said he believed the Cubs were indeed considering the idea, again for 2016 as a bridge to Almora or to some other player if he failed. Shortly after Maddon was asked about it on his Score appearance and he neither confirmed or denied but said Bryant would succeed in whatever he was asked to do. Kasper was asked about it again several weeks later and maintained that while he wouldn't predict he wouldn't be surprised. Again no one has mentioned 2015 to my knowledge but if he were already being considered there for next year and Fowler continued to struggle it would stand to reason that it's could be an option. A likely one? Probably not but not as out there as some may think.

Thanks.

I don't know guess I just don't think Fowler is as bad as people are making him out to be. Clearly he's struggling but at .232/.308/.369 that's almost assuredly the worst 3 month stretch of his career and league average for CF is .263/.323/.402. So, he's not *that* far off and you have to imagine he's some what better in the second half. After the season I feel like you throw a QO on him and see what happens. Someone signs him then hey free first round pick. If not you're paying $15-17 mil for a guy who's been roughly 2 fWAR per season. Wins have been worth around $7 mil in FA the past few years so that's about right money wise. If he doesn't take it I'd rather see them throw Alcantara or Baez out there for a full season.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

So ZiPS projects Schwarber at .238/.303/.432 for the rest of the year while PECOTA has him projected at .272/.353/.479. Quite the difference of opinion there.

 

[Parade_Rain]

So ZiPS projects Schwarber at .238/.303/.432 for the rest of the year while PECOTA has him projected at .272/.353/.479. Quite the difference of opinion there.

So splitting the difference, we can expect him to hit about .255.

 

[CSF77]

I feel like you can't have it both ways in that you can't talk about playing for the playoffs and then talk about taking your lumps with a player. We have to choose one path or the other. I don't really see how anyone can objectively say that adding Schwarber and Baez and subtracting Fowler and Coghlan makes the 2015 cubs a better team. I mean ok if you argue that Schwarber and Baez have no issues adjusting like Bryant than fine maybe they are a better team but Bryant is pretty clearly an exception to the norm. But even if they play decent like Soler has Coghlan and Fowler are probably more valuable players given you're given up defense to put their bats in the line up.

On the other hand, if you're talking about playing more for 2016 then fine I can see some logic there. However, I still think that is a batting line up with 0 synergy and that the line up will have to HR it's way to wins plus the OF is going to be god awful defensively especially in the gaps. Coghlan may not be an amazing defender in LF(-2.5 UZR/150 over 6k innings in LF) but he's a far sight better than Schwarber will be hardly having played LF. And actually at 16.4 UZR/150 this year and -0.3 last year Coghlan has been pretty good with the cubs or at least average-above average.

I don't know I guess I'm just getting old and grumpy but I'm really sick and tired of people talking down Coghlan. Even after a .223/.294/.439 from April-May, he's 58th(out of 162 qualified players) among all hitters in the league in OBP. Since the start of June he's hitting .273/.398/.373. In June Coghlan had the 6th best OBP in baseball. And on top of that he happens to be one of the few players on the 40 man roster who would actually be worth while hitting lead off yet people continually want to throw him away or push him to a 4th OFer.

People are placing far too much belief in prospects to have an immediate impact. Soler is probably more advanced a hitter than both Schwarber and Baez(definitely Baez) and he's been a full win in fWAR less valuable than Coghlan in 48 fewer PAs. And as I said above, Soler as a hitter has been roughly league average at .260/.314/.388 vs the .253/.314/.396 league average. And if we're playing the long game here then why on gods green earth are we playing Bryant in CF because he is not a CF. I think you'd try Baez there before Bryant and I don't think Baez is a CF either(least not anymore).

All this just feels like the baseball equivalent of madden roster moves or fantasy baseball if you prefer.

Cubs have little chance of winning this year. Until Bryant and Russell well and Soler are not struggling.

I expect better results out of all 3 in 2016.

This year is what it is and they are better off getting their long terms playing every day.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Cubs have little chance of winning this year. Until Bryant and Russell well and Soler are not struggling.

I expect better results out of all 3 in 2016.

This year is what it is and they are better off getting their long terms playing every day.

Correct. What you hope for is as much experience competing in a pennant race as possible up to and including making the Wild Card if they can. That's a foundation that could set up 2016, with some other holes filled of course, as a special year. Maybe one where we aren't craning our necks up at the those nasty red birds in Missouri.

 

[CSF77]

All I've said is the biggest problem with the team has been run support. That is pretty bottom line and if it continues then they will fall out.

This problem correlates to both Russell/Fowler OBA struggles. And them having sub par production after Bryant and Rizzo.

Basically outside of Bryant and Rizzo the line up has been flat.

What has kept them in it has been the pitching staff. Hats off to them.

Now the top 2 OBA hitters are Rizzo and Bryant. Following logic you lead off with the best OBA. After that the line up goes flat. But adding Baez and Schwarber to Soler and Castro should pick up some RBI chances.

yiu could lead off with either. Depending on the match up then alternate behind. If Baez is struggling then swap him and Soler. Thus it keeps dynamic.

Now the whole Baez CF/3B? You just play the best over all D between the two. If Baez is better at Both than Bryant then play which one Bryant is better at.

Team first approach

 

[willycat]

IMO CSF. Baez is the best fielding infielder and would be wasted in the OF, which is a position he probably has never played. Putting Bryant in CF is an attempt to get some punch in the lineup and think he can be as good defensively as Fowler. At 3B, who knows, maybe Castro, if he's not traded or Olt. Think they want Scwarber in the line-up a lot. Heck, he is catching tonight, so guess they want to see if can handle it right off the bat and if he struggles then play him in LF.

 

[Parade_Rain]

IMO CSF. Baez is the best fielding infielder and would be wasted in the OF, which is a position he probably has never played. Putting Bryant in CF is an attempt to get some punch in the lineup and think he can be as good defensively as Fowler. At 3B, who knows, maybe Castro, if he's not traded or Olt. Think they want Scwarber in the line-up a lot. Heck, he is catching tonight, so guess they want to see if can handle it right off the bat and if he struggles then play him in LF.

Baez was a CF all the way up through HS until he was at least a Junior. He's very experienced as OF. It would take him very little time to adjust there.

 

[Diehardfan]

IMO CSF. Baez is the best fielding infielder and would be wasted in the OF, which is a position he probably has never played. Putting Bryant in CF is an attempt to get some punch in the lineup and think he can be as good defensively as Fowler. At 3B, who knows, maybe Castro, if he's not traded or Olt. Think they want Scwarber in the line-up a lot. Heck, he is catching tonight, so guess they want to see if can handle it right off the bat and if he struggles then play him in LF.

Olt? The only problem with that is that if he's your third baseman, at some point he has to come to the plate and swing a bat. At this point, that is an ugly scenario.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Scrawler doesn't look like a catcher. Incredible focus to shake off 2 errors for 3 hits. But I'm cringing this entire pitch sequence as stance just seems doomed. Don't ruin a great hitters knees either, this kid belongs in left.

 

[Icculus]

Scrawler doesn't look like a catcher. Incredible focus to shake off 2 errors for 3 hits. But I'm cringing this entire pitch sequence as stance just seems doomed. Don't ruin a great hitters knees either, this kid belongs in left.

Tell that to Mike Piazza.

 

[Raskolnikov]

Posey is a catcher but you cringe to do it because he was more than athletic enough to play left, first, third, maybe center. The issue is he is the games best defensive weapon at catcher in my opinion because of the golden arm. He is a true catcher because he is great at catching. So you let him be what he is, begrudingly. I think Schwarber is athletic enough to play in left...which is a good thing because he doesn't look like a catcher and I want him to keep getting triples for a little bit before you trade him to AL in 3-5 years.