Small Market Cubs?????

[nwfisch]

Because people on here( YES FISCH THIS IS YOU) will never be happy. Seriously, where did signing free agents and not building a farms system get us? Three playoff appearances in 10 years? One playoffs series win?

So why not let have the Cubs take a different approach? Money doesnt buy you championships. If someone doesnt understand that yet then you just lack baseball knowledge. The Rays built a farm system and dont spend big money... where is that gotten them... o yea thats right they are consistently in the playoffs.

Now if the Cubs follow the Rays they will be prime because they can actually afford to keep players.

If the Rays have money they would be insanely good with Garza Price Shields Longo Crawford Upton.

If you think the Cubs are doing it wrong(FISCH) then lets see your fucking brilliant plan to change things.

I've explained my plan on here at least 50 times, its not my fault you don't read or don't get it.

:enough:

 

[CSF77]

Now to you Pat:

The Cubs are doing the right thing on developing their farm system.

But

Needed to invest into quality until those prospects eta's were due.

Unfortunately I believe ownership bit off more than they could chew right now and decided to reduce overhead. Thus the Theo signing (camouflage act) to keep the fans appeased until they could get into more resources.

I'd go as far as saying that firing Dale could be easily a 2 year extension on fan appeasement of the sacrificial lamb slaughter until some of the kids get up and the fans come in to see the new generation pan out. Even though they did not get the guy they wanted. But another year of Dale would have dropped sales into the 2.5 mil area.

 

[Boobaby1]

Now to you Pat:

The Cubs are doing the right thing on developing their farm system.

But

Needed to invest into quality until those prospects eta's were due.

Unfortunately I believe ownership bit off more than they could chew right now and decided to reduce overhead. Thus the Theo signing (camouflage act) to keep the fans appeased until they could get into more resources.

I'd go as far as saying that firing Dale could be easily a 2 year extension on fan appeasement of the sacrificial lamb slaughter until some of the kids get up and the fans come in to see the new generation pan out. Even though they did not get the guy they wanted. But another year of Dale would have dropped sales into the 2.5 mil area.

I am sure another year of subpar play will result in the same attendance figures. Theo will have to pull a move, trade or something of that nature to impact this team. Baez and Bryant would do the same thing but they aren't ready yet.

I hope Theo starts to create a buzz through the media by signing Tanaka and putting him in Iowa to start off the year with Baez and maybe Bryant at the AAA level.

 

[CSF77]

I am sure another year of subpar play will result in the same attendance figures. Theo will have to pull a move, trade or something of that nature to impact this team. Baez and Bryant would do the same thing but they aren't ready yet.

I hope Theo starts to create a buzz through the media by signing Tanaka and putting him in Iowa to start off the year with Baez and maybe Bryant at the AAA level.

Depends if Baez and Bryant come up this year we will see a increase of attendance at those points. Regardless of the manager.

 

[beckdawg]

Now to you Pat:

The Cubs are doing the right thing on developing their farm system.

But

Needed to invest into quality until those prospects eta's were due.

Unfortunately I believe ownership bit off more than they could chew right now and decided to reduce overhead. Thus the Theo signing (camouflage act) to keep the fans appeased until they could get into more resources.

I'd go as far as saying that firing Dale could be easily a 2 year extension on fan appeasement of the sacrificial lamb slaughter until some of the kids get up and the fans come in to see the new generation pan out. Even though they did not get the guy they wanted. But another year of Dale would have dropped sales into the 2.5 mil area.

I wouldn't say they bit off more than they could chew. You don't buy a sports franchise as a short term investment. I really don't believe they had the short term plan the dodgers have nor did they have the quick influx of money. With that said, there were obviously challenges they may have not foreseen with the silly rules they are having to jump around with the renovation. That has in turn delayed their influx of new revenue which may push their profit back a few years.

That all being said, we're talking about guys who made their money in the financial industry. We're not talking about someone like Cuban who got rich and wants to win. To say they are ever going to go nuts spending seems unlikely to me. Additionally, by hiring Theo you're saying the approach you plan to take with regard to sabermetrics. The Red Sox took a similar plan but they had a natural rival in NY who they got caught up in 1-upping. The cubs natural rival is St. Louis who doesn't play the FA game often. If they are winning I think it's unlikely they will feel the pressure to spend big because the cardinals also win and aren't doing it.

 

[patg006]

Now to you Pat:

The Cubs are doing the right thing on developing their farm system.

But

Needed to invest into quality until those prospects eta's were due.

Unfortunately I believe ownership bit off more than they could chew right now and decided to reduce overhead. Thus the Theo signing (camouflage act) to keep the fans appeased until they could get into more resources.

I'd go as far as saying that firing Dale could be easily a 2 year extension on fan appeasement of the sacrificial lamb slaughter until some of the kids get up and the fans come in to see the new generation pan out. Even though they did not get the guy they wanted. But another year of Dale would have dropped sales into the 2.5 mil area.

Good to see y'all again, too.....though I fear this return will not be for long......

Never once have I said 'the cubs should ignore the farm.' I'm okay with the farm and progression it has now. I love Kris Bryant and everything he's done thus far and think next summer if everything goes his way he will be with the team giving fits to the Adam Wainwrights, Yovanni Gallardos, Gerrit Coles, and other great pitchers of the division.

I'm not okay with the shittiest line up that struggles to knock in a guy from 2nd base with nobody out and the 3-4-5 hitters due up.

I understand itll be a few more years of dogshit, and there's nothing I can do about that; but I want to see bats. They got pitchers, I want BATS.

I dont want our 4 hitter to be a 9th hitter on an DHing AL team like the Mariners......

Spend the money, get Mike Morse and Bryan McCann.....

 

[beckdawg]

Good to see y'all again, too.....though I fear this return will not be for long......

Never once have I said 'the cubs should ignore the farm.' I'm okay with the farm and progression it has now. I love Kris Bryant and everything he's done thus far and think next summer if everything goes his way he will be with the team giving fits to the Adam Wainwrights, Yovanni Gallardos, Gerrit Coles, and other great pitchers of the division.

I'm not okay with the shittiest line up that struggles to knock in a guy from 2nd base with nobody out and the 3-4-5 hitters due up.

I understand itll be a few more years of dogshit, and there's nothing I can do about that; but I want to see bats. They got pitchers, I want BATS.

I dont want our 4 hitter to be a 9th hitter on an DHing AL team like the Mariners......

Spend the money, get Mike Morse and Bryan McCann.....

Nothing wrong with those feeling though I'd argue spending money on those players would be pyrrhic victory. I'm not going to pretend to be well versed on international free agents. But, I'd rather see them throw money at guys like Soler, and Tanaka than to do it at vets. For example, imagine if they could have gone a bit deeper financially on Ryu last off season. Imagine if they had the money to sign both Soler and Puig or Cespedes for that matter.

Also, I don't even think Morse and McCann are the right type of bats. Mores had a .270 OBP last year. McCann is better at .336 but you'd be replacing Castillo who was actually very decent. Sure in theory they bring power but that really wasn't the issue the cubs had. They were one of the better NL teams in terms of power even if you exclude Soriano. However they were something like 3rd worst in OBP. That's why I've suggested Choo with his .423 OBP. Norichika Aoki at .356 wouldn't be terrible either. Ben Zobrist if he isn't optioned would be good.

They REALLY need to get more out of 2B and SS. Barney was 139th in OBP out of 140 qualified batters. Castro was 137th. That's how bad those two were this year at getting on base. Schierholtz wasn't stellar either at 123rd. Rizzo was the only other qualified guy and he was closer to middle of the pack. Soriano was equally terrible at .287. 3B wasn't much better either with Ransom at .304 and Murphy at .319. Valbuena is ok at .331 but at .218 average you have to wonder if he's much more than a platoon/bench guy.

The problem however becomes how do you get better? 3B and 2B aren't exactly stellar in terms of FA depth and you really would prefer to see Alcantra and whomever out of Baez, Bryant, Olt, Villenuva...etc ends up at 3B. So, really that leaves you the OF as the only place they can improve outside of current players just getting better. Maybe they make a trade to fix these issues at 2B/3B but I really doubt it.

 

[CSF77]

They are big names but not big production.

Morse I could see on a 1 year deal on a flip. They need a #4 hitter.

But after Baez and Bryant get up his impact lessens and the need will be more so a LH bat to offset them.

McCann no thanks. I'm fine with Castillo catching going forward.

But over all if they traded Schierholtz then moved Sweeney to RF and Lake to CF and then signed Morse on a 1 year I'm good with that.

Castro/Valbuena/Rizzo/Morse/Sweeney/Lake/Castillo/Barney is a start. I would want to push Watkins to 2B and push Barney into a platoon. Get another LH bat lower in the line up.

Nothing great but passable until Baez promotes.

 

[beckdawg]

There must be something I'm missing on Morse.... we're talking about the guy with 27 RBIs and a .217 average in ~300 PAs last year? The same guy who's only had more than 400 ABs in 2 seasons out of 9? I think there's much better options in the OF.

 

[daddies3angels]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/21989238/baseball-payrolls-list

Look at the final 4 in playoffs!! ALL BIG MARKETS!!!! LAD 2, BOS 4, DET 5, STL 11... Dont tell me that payroll dont matter. Cubs need to act like a Big Market they are and spend some money. Ricketts is a cheapass!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Jntg4]

http://www.cbssports.com/mlb/story/21989238/baseball-payrolls-list

Look at the final 4 in playoffs!! ALL BIG MARKETS!!!! LAD 2, BOS 4, DET 5, STL 11... Dont tell me that payroll dont matter. Cubs need to act like a Big Market they are and spend some money. Ricketts is a cheapass!!!!!!!!!!!!

Actually, two of those franchises get "competitive balance" picks.

 

[daddies3angels]

Actually, two of those franchises get "competitive balance" picks.

Tells you that even medium markets are spending BIG MARKET MONEY while Cubs Big ass market spending medium Market money. Tells you how much RIcketts is a cheap ass and a horrible baseball owner. Genious business man but awfull baseball owner.

 

[patg006]

They are big names but not big production.

Morse I could see on a 1 year deal on a flip. They need a #4 hitter.

But after Baez and Bryant get up his impact lessens and the need will be more so a LH bat to offset them.

McCann no thanks. I'm fine with Castillo catching going forward.

But over all if they traded Schierholtz then moved Sweeney to RF and Lake to CF and then signed Morse on a 1 year I'm good with that.

Castro/Valbuena/Rizzo/Morse/Sweeney/Lake/Castillo/Barney is a start. I would want to push Watkins to 2B and push Barney into a platoon. Get another LH bat lower in the line up.

Nothing great but passable until Baez promotes.

One--Wellington Castillo is the king of 2 out singles/walks. Thats why his avg/obp is so high but his runs, RBIs, and anything else worth a damn is useless. His average insinuates decent, but he really isn't. Gimme McCann. If people care/consider leadership--McCann is a guy you want. And can play 1B when Rizzo sucks/needs a breather.

Beck--It wont solve 3B problems, but--Eric Chavez will be available for platoon. 80+ games at 4 mil a year is perfect.

Morse will want multi year. I'd give it to him when I look at Nate, Bugo, and scrubs sans Lake........Lake/Morse/Sweeney would be an OF I would consider not terrible. The OF situation will not improve.....

Tanaka be all in on.

Justin Frasor, shit team or not can be flipped/useful. None of the dogshit bullpen guys sans Russell and Strop......

 

[patg006]

There must be something I'm missing on Morse.... we're talking about the guy with 27 RBIs and a .217 average in ~300 PAs last year? The same guy who's only had more than 400 ABs in 2 seasons out of 9? I think there's much better options in the OF.

Itll be Morse or Corey Hart based on Jedstein's inability to commit to a player longer than 3 years via FA.....

 

[Boobaby1]

There must be something I'm missing on Morse.... we're talking about the guy with 27 RBIs and a .217 average in ~300 PAs last year? The same guy who's only had more than 400 ABs in 2 seasons out of 9? I think there's much better options in the OF.

What better options are there that the Cubs want to pay for? Given the apparent sudden financial restraints of the Cubs, I think he fits perfectly. Especially for the reasons you have provided.

Bad year, not many at bats, and post injury.

That screams "Cub Acquisition" to me.

I surely wouldn't want to forfeit another season with the current roster again. We already know what they can't do. Might as well put someone else out there. The absolute worse thing that can happen is that they will be as bad a team as they were this year and still get another top draft pick.

Might as well try. What does it hurt?

 

[SilenceS]

One--Wellington Castillo is the king of 2 out singles/walks. Thats why his avg/obp is so high but his runs, RBIs, and anything else worth a damn is useless. His average insinuates decent, but he really isn't. Gimme McCann. If people care/consider leadership--McCann is a guy you want. And can play 1B when Rizzo sucks/needs a breather.

Beck--It wont solve 3B problems, but--Eric Chavez will be available for platoon. 80+ games at 4 mil a year is perfect.

Morse will want multi year. I'd give it to him when I look at Nate, Bugo, and scrubs sans Lake........Lake/Morse/Sweeney would be an OF I would consider not terrible. The OF situation will not improve.....

Tanaka be all in on.

Justin Frasor, shit team or not can be flipped/useful. None of the dogshit bullpen guys sans Russell and Strop......

Your assessment of Castillo is not very accurate. He ranked as one of the top defensive catchers this year and showed a strong average and OBP. He showed real good power for a catcher toward the end of the season. He is 26 and going into his prime. McCann can go elsewhere. Castillo is a lil yadi. Wont be the superstar but someone that fits nicely into a core.

 

[CSF77]

Castillo will be fine. A catcher needs to be a catcher first and a hitter second. Not concerned. Morse makes sense. All time low value and they have to replace Sori's bat next year. LF is about open as it gets right now.

 

[CSF77]

But if McCann could play 3B that is a whole new topic.

 

[beckdawg]

What better options are there that the Cubs want to pay for? Given the apparent sudden financial restraints of the Cubs, I think he fits perfectly. Especially for the reasons you have provided.

I've thrown Choo out for a long time but it's beginning to look lik ehis price will be higher than I expect. Still, I'd much rather them go after Norichika Aoki, Crisp and Dejesus assuming options are declined. I'd also throw in Jeff Baker, Rajai Davis, Reed Johnson and Nate McLouth as guys I'd rather see them go after than Morse.

 

[CSF77]

After they gave a 2 plus an option to Sweeney it signaled that they are going to be frugal here.