So Theo Baseball:

[Jntg4]

Believe what you need to

:smh:

 

[CSF77]

Very interesting Article. So they are saying that the priority would be #1, #4, #2, #5, #3, #6, #7,#8, #9. So the best OBA would hit 1. Best pure hitter #2 and best clutch #4. #3 hitter gets a lot of 2 outs no men on AB's which lowers his value. #6 would be a speed guy with 7/8 singles hitters (small ball). Interesting.

 

[dabynsky]

Very interesting Article. So they are saying that the priority would be #1, #4, #2, #5, #3, #6, #7,#8, #9. So the best OBA would hit 1. Best pure hitter #2 and best clutch #4. #3 hitter gets a lot of 2 outs no men on AB's which lowers his value. #6 would be a speed guy with 7/8 singles hitters (small ball). Interesting.

Yes that is according to The Book which was largely written by Tom Tango.

I tend to subscribe to the theory that lineup optimatization doesn't matter that much and you just want your best hitters getting the most plate appearances so you ought to stick the best hitters higher in the lineup and go from there. It is hardly an up and shut case, but Choo strikes me as a guy that makes a lot of sense as a 2 hitter given this evidence. Rizzo honestly makes a fair bit of sense right now as a three hitter with his high SLG and less than ideal OBP. If the average comes up perhaps he could slide down to the 4th spot. That is if you believe the research that they did.

 

[nickofypres]

Even if you guys were shopping him, you wouldn't get that much.

For Chris Sale and his super, awesome, contract?

Who you crappin'.

 

[Jntg4]

For Chris Sale and his super, awesome, contract?

Who you crappin'.

You are talking about FOUR players that are ALREADY major league starters....

any team dumb enough to do that would be taking a huge step back. Sure, you add an ace, but now you just blew two quality starting pitchers, a power-hitting first baseman, and a 23-year old shortstop that made the All-Star game twice in his first four seasons.

 

[nickofypres]

My bad, I thought the discussion was Sale for Baez, Almora, Bryant and Soler. Not for Shark, and whomever else is in the Cubs' rotation.

 

[Jntg4]

My bad, I thought the discussion was Sale for Baez, Almora, Bryant and Soler. Not for Shark, and whomever else is in the Cubs' rotation.

Nope, he was saying any 4 of the group of Castro, Rizzo, Shark, Wood, and Castillo.

 

[SilenceS]

On another note, Soriano has hit 16 homers since August. I think he has a couple more years left in the tank. Up to 34 this year, the Cubs should have just kept him. Not being a dick and acting like it was huge move or anything. Just saying I thought we should have just kept him.

 

[Jntg4]

On another note, Soriano has hit 16 homers since August. I think he has a couple more years left in the tank. Up to 34 this year, the Cubs should have just kept him. Not being a dick and acting like it was huge move or anything. Just saying I thought we should have just kept him.

On the bright side, Corey Black seems a bit better than we originally thought.

 

[Icculus]

For Chris Sale and his super, awesome, contract?

Who you crappin'.

He's a Cubbie fan, that's all you need to know.

 

[Parade_Rain]

On the bright side, Corey Black seems a bit better than we originally thought.

Need more info. Thx.

 

[CSF77]

Yes that is according to The Book which was largely written by Tom Tango.

I tend to subscribe to the theory that lineup optimatization doesn't matter that much and you just want your best hitters getting the most plate appearances so you ought to stick the best hitters higher in the lineup and go from there. It is hardly an up and shut case, but Choo strikes me as a guy that makes a lot of sense as a 2 hitter given this evidence. Rizzo honestly makes a fair bit of sense right now as a three hitter with his high SLG and less than ideal OBP. If the average comes up perhaps he could slide down to the 4th spot. That is if you believe the research that they did.

I've envisioned Alomora being that #2 hitter and this theory justifies it. Castro is hitting better in the 1 hole but I question the logic long term. They would be better served just going with a pure OBA type there.

So under this theory long term:

1: Open
2: Almora
3: Rizzo
4. Baez
5. Bryant
6. Lake
7-8 filler

Seems RH heavy. I can see a trade out.

 

[beckdawg]

On another note, Soriano has hit 16 homers since August. I think he has a couple more years left in the tank. Up to 34 this year, the Cubs should have just kept him. Not being a dick and acting like it was huge move or anything. Just saying I thought we should have just kept him.

To what end? I'm also not trying to be antagonistic either but it's obvious the cubs wouldn't have made the playoffs with him this year. It's possible if he was this hot for the cubs like he has been in NY you could have moved him on waivers/off season for more but then he's also got a full no trade. And you can't know that he is going to get as hot as he did. He could have just as easily been what he was in the first 3 months of the season.

I suppose you could argue not to trade him at all but again I don't see the point because I doubt the 2014 cubs are any better record wise even with him. At this point, I'd honestly rather they threw Vitters out there and see what happens. Soriano makes a bad team marginally less bad at $18 mil/year. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to trade him this past off season especially after trying to move him at last year's deadline.

 

[Jntg4]

He's a Cubbie fan, that's all you need to know.

Brett's a Sox fan, that's all you need to know. Even whitesoxfan901 admitted that what Brett was talking was way too much, he thought we were talking 4 prospects, not 4 MLB starters.

 

[nwfisch]

To what end? I'm also not trying to be antagonistic either but it's obvious the cubs wouldn't have made the playoffs with him this year. It's possible if he was this hot for the cubs like he has been in NY you could have moved him on waivers/off season for more but then he's also got a full no trade. And you can't know that he is going to get as hot as he did. He could have just as easily been what he was in the first 3 months of the season.

I suppose you could argue not to trade him at all but again I don't see the point because I doubt the 2014 cubs are any better record wise even with him. At this point, I'd honestly rather they threw Vitters out there and see what happens. Soriano makes a bad team marginally less bad at $18 mil/year. I'm surprised they didn't find a way to trade him this past off season especially after trying to move him at last year's deadline.

And your paying him $13M to hit HRs against the Cubs and you didn't even get a top 10 arm back for him.

 

[The Bandit]

And your paying him $13M to hit HRs against the Cubs and you didn't even get a top 10 arm back for him.

There was no chance of that happening.

sent from my beaver dam using tapatalk

 

[Jntg4]

And your paying him $13M to hit HRs against the Cubs and you didn't even get a top 10 arm back for him.

The Yankees only play the Cubs 4 times during his contract post-trade, we're not paying him to homer against us

 

[beckdawg]

And your paying him $13M to hit HRs against the Cubs and you didn't even get a top 10 arm back for him.

What's it matter if the cubs lose 90 games or lose 85? If there was a compelling argument that they could even squeak into the playoffs then fine, keep him but come on, this team has lost 90+ games over the last several years. They've already indicated via the media they don't plan to spend big in the off season. Soriano is the very definition of a sunk cost. At least try to salvage what you can(in this case $6 mil and a pitcher).

We don't know what Corey Black will be. He was 4-0 with a 2.88 ERA and 10.08 K/9 in Daytona. Let's not act like he was a 50th round pick. He was a 4th round selection. Papelbon, Jeremy Hellickson, Ricky Nolasco, Cliff Lee, C.J. Wilson, Jeff Samardzija, Chris Archer, Jake Arrieta, and Josh Johnson were all 4th/5th round pitchers since 2000. Even if he doesn't figure in their plans, he could very well be a piece in a trade later on like Archer was for Garza.

The $6 mil the cubs are saving could be used to front load a mid tier FA like they did with Jackson or they could use it to gamble on another guy like Feldman/Maholm/Schierholtz. In other words, no matter what they do, there is future value provided. Soriano provides them maybe a few more wins in 2014 but gets them no closer to winning a title. To make matters worse, he takes a spot in the lineup which in of itself has value. Maybe the cubs go out and plug in another guy like Schierholtz and hope to move him for more prospects at next years trade deadline. Maybe they let guys like Lake/Vitters/whomever play and see what they have.

Point is it was time to move on.

 

[nwfisch]

There was no chance of that happening.

sent from my beaver dam using tapatalk

I'm talking top 10 arm in the Yankee system.

The arm they got wasn't even top 10 in a depleted Yankee farm system.

 

[Jntg4]

I'm talking top 10 arm in the Yankee system.

The arm they got wasn't even top 10 in a depleted Yankee farm system.

We're talking about the return for a 37-year old here... and Black has been fairly good since coming over. Not expecting much at the major league level, but he's a pretty legitimate prospect... not top ten or anything, but still something.