Spring Training 2012 IGT And Random Discussions

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waldo7239117

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Jim Hendry is back at Cubs camp, as being the Yanks scout ... per Knobler
 

Mr. Cub

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Rizzo goes deep again.
 

dabynsky

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LaHair's window of opportunity as a starter seems to be shrinking each day.
 

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LaHair's window of opportunity as a starter seems to be shrinking each day.

I think the Cubs would much rather have Rizzo but they want to suppress his service time. It's one of those things.
 

dabynsky

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I think the Cubs would much rather have Rizzo but they want to suppress his service time. It's one of those things.

Rizzo is going to start the year in AAA. I was just making the comment that if he keeps hitting like this he is going to force his way on the roster sooner than perhaps they would like for the service time issues.
 

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Rizzo is going to start the year in AAA. I was just making the comment that if he keeps hitting like this he is going to force his way on the roster sooner than perhaps they would like for the service time issues.

Wouldn't you assume though that even if Rizzo is shredding baseballs in AAA that they would'nt want to mess with the service time issues if the Cubs start off badly and appear to be out of contention?
 

Rice Cube

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Wouldn't you assume though that even if Rizzo is shredding baseballs in AAA that they would'nt want to mess with the service time issues if the Cubs start off badly and appear to be out of contention?

I think that turns into a union issue if he's kept down too long. The Cubs are of course going to try to postpone it as long as they can, but at some point the guy's just so good that you can't keep him down anymore. I think one or two months won't cause the union to revolt or anything, but trying to keep him down until September is way too much to ask. Same for Brett Jackson.

That's the only reason they won't bring either guy up until May or June, is to get that seventh year.
 

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I think that turns into a union issue if he's kept down too long. The Cubs are of course going to try to postpone it as long as they can, but at some point the guy's just so good that you can't keep him down anymore. I think one or two months won't cause the union to revolt or anything, but trying to keep him down until September is way too much to ask. Same for Brett Jackson.

That's the only reason they won't bring either guy up until May or June, is to get that seventh year.

I actually don't understand all the service time/control things you've been bringing up, but I get tht is important for the team. So I would just think that to take full advantage of it, it would be best to leave him down as long as they should if the Cubs aren't contending. But if we are off to a great start and he is hot then why not? But what if LaHair is tearing it up too? Put Lahair in the OF or somewhere else?
 

Rice Cube

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I actually don't understand all the service time/control things you've been bringing up, but I get tht is important for the team. So I would just think that to take full advantage of it, it would be best to leave him down as long as they should if the Cubs aren't contending. But if we are off to a great start and he is hot then why not? But what if LaHair is tearing it up too? Put Lahair in the OF or somewhere else?

Basically you want to keep the guy down for as long as it takes to ensure that he has at least two seasons at minimum salary before he gets three or four arbitration years prior to free agency. By delaying the start of their MLB service clock, they can guarantee six (3 minimum + 3 arb or 2 minimum + 4 arb if Super Two) plus an additional season prior to their free agency date.
 

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Service Time: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

By delaying the point at which the player can accrue three full years of MLB service, you can delay his arb date and free agency date, and that additional year of control is very important especially on the financial side.
 

dabynsky

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I think that turns into a union issue if he's kept down too long. The Cubs are of course going to try to postpone it as long as they can, but at some point the guy's just so good that you can't keep him down anymore. I think one or two months won't cause the union to revolt or anything, but trying to keep him down until September is way too much to ask. Same for Brett Jackson.

That's the only reason they won't bring either guy up until May or June, is to get that seventh year.

Didn't that happen with Liriano a while back? With a guy that has so little major league experience I don't think Rizzo and the union can do much to force the Cubs to play. The issue becomes when do you hurt the development of major league talent trying to gain a financial advantage.
 

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Basically you want to keep the guy down for as long as it takes to ensure that he has at least two seasons at minimum salary before he gets three or four arbitration years prior to free agency. By delaying the start of their MLB service clock, they can guarantee six (3 minimum + 3 arb or 2 minimum + 4 arb if Super Two) plus an additional season prior to their free agency date.

I see. That's pretty confusing for someone who never pays attention to contracts and everything they entail. I'm more of a stat guy haha
 

Rice Cube

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Didn't that happen with Liriano a while back? With a guy that has so little major league experience I don't think Rizzo and the union can do much to force the Cubs to play. The issue becomes when do you hurt the development of major league talent trying to gain a financial advantage.

I don't recall what happened with Liriano. I think the union can't do anything unless the guy is first promoted and then demoted for silly reasons.
 

dabynsky

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I don't recall what happened with Liriano. I think the union can't do anything unless the guy is first promoted and then demoted for silly reasons.

This is what I was recalling: Agent wants players' union to investigate Twins' call-up snub of Liriano - MLB - ESPN

And as I recall with that situation there is very little the union can do. Ultimately what forces a team to play a player is having to be placed on the 40 man roster and burning option years each year he gets sent down.
 

Rice Cube

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That was a weird play to basically end the game.
 
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