Terrorist Attack in Norway

[BigPete]

Which is why we would best be served as a global society if there simply was no more religion.

 

[bri]

Not according to the numerous news articles I read. 21 years is the max sentance in Norway, regardless of the number of victims. Perhaps they can bring him up on other charges and add additional prison time.

That just seems like an incentive for people to go out and commit mass murder. Well Gee, I am not going to get punished any worse if I kill more than one person so I might as well take out everybody I don't like.

 

[sth]

In Norway's defense this has never happened before. The last time anything close to this happened the Nazis were invading. Unfortunately in America we have lots of experience. I'm sure in the wake of this the laws will change. And from what I heard the prosecutors are on a mission to charge him with enough crimes to give him life in prison.

 

[IceHogsFan]

They simply hope to generate the same sort of fervor toward the right, by singling this guy out as "This is what the right is, a bunch of hardline crazies that will kill people to get their point across".

Of course they do. What is disgusting are those who do not see what is wrong with that because they are promoting "their" cause or belief. Put the shoe on the other foot and it is just as wrong. Silly sheeple are so easily lead. They do not think for themselves but just promote sound bites offered up by media news outlets and even political parties. It even goes all the way to the top just like when Obama said Fox is not a news outlet.

Wonder how that would have gone down if a Republican POTUS got behind a podium and on national tv declared CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc. were not news organizations. Would there be an outcry then?



This nut case is like many others, just that, a nut case. To label him as part of a group to promote an agenda is what we as citizens should be alarmed about.

 

[TSD]

Which is why we would best be served as a global society if there simply was no more religion.

wed be better off if there were alot of things, people would kill for, just for the sake of it.



The concept of loyalty to a nation and loyalty to God and religion inherently conflict. Not going to turn this into another religious debate, but it relates to this mans actions, As I recall Bush Senior said : "No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."



When your loyalty to God and Loyalty to country come into conflict, what then? I answer to no higher authority than the laws of my nation. What happens when Gays get to marry all over the country? And it will happen, its only a matter of time, or maybe prostitution is legal? There are already plenty of non-existent laws in the United States for things that would warrant death or some other extreme punishment in biblical law, so by that logic the united states is already pretty ungodly. The American Revolution at the time was not just a revolution against britain it was a revolution against God. The whole premise of the monarchy was that it ruled by divine right, the king was king because God willed it ergo A rebellion against the monarch is a rebellion against God.



this was not the sole ideal of this norwegians actions but it was part of it.

 

[BigPete]

That just seems like an incentive for people to go out and commit mass murder. Well Gee, I am not going to get punished any worse if I kill more than one person so I might as well take out everybody I don't like.

One day in jail is still pretty bad. There is little difference, when sabotaging your freedom by killing people, between 21 years in jail and the rest of your life in jail.



The issue here if you want to compare tangerines to grapefruits is that murderers can and do get out of prison a lot quicker than 21 years. They go out and committ another murder, go back in, come back out and committ another one. Unless of course there are heinous circumstances tied to the crime or the judge is just a bad ass that likes to lock people up for a long time.



I've said it a million times but if you really want to curb all the murders in this country committed by otherwise sane people, you have to start ratcheting up the deterance factor by torturing and executing these murderers in public. Then everyone will get the point that murder will not be tolerated. You will still have whack jobs committ murders and crimes of passion may lead to deaths, but the 'drive-bys' and drug related murders will go down dramatically.

 

[BigPete]

Of course they do. What is disgusting are those who do not see what is wrong with that because they are promoting "their" cause or belief. Put the shoe on the other foot and it is just as wrong. Silly sheeple are so easily lead. They do not think for themselves but just promote sound bites offered up by media news outlets and even political parties. It even goes all the way to the top just like when Obama said Fox is not a news outlet.

Wonder how that would have gone down if a Republican POTUS got behind a podium and on national tv declared CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc. were not news organizations. Would there be an outcry then?



This nut case is like many others, just that, a nut case. To label him as part of a group to promote an agenda is what we as citizens should be alarmed about.

It wasn't the American media that started calling him a right winger.

 

[roshinaya]

In Norway's defense this has never happened before. The last time anything close to this happened the Nazis were invading. Unfortunately in America we have lots of experience. I'm sure in the wake of this the laws will change. And from what I heard the prosecutors are on a mission to charge him with enough crimes to give him life in prison.

According to various polls made in newspapers (not that reliable, granted) the vast majority of the Norwegian people do not want to see a change in law for harsher penalties not to mention re-introducing the death penalty. They pride themselves in being an open, tolerant and egalitarian country and they will not let one right-wing nutter change that. As I posted earlier, the max sentence is 21 years, but there is an option to keep adding 5 years to his detention for as long as they see fit.

 

[TSD]

Of course they do. What is disgusting are those who do not see what is wrong with that because they are promoting "their" cause or belief. Put the shoe on the other foot and it is just as wrong. Silly sheeple are so easily lead. They do not think for themselves but just promote sound bites offered up by media news outlets and even political parties. It even goes all the way to the top just like when Obama said Fox is not a news outlet.

Wonder how that would have gone down if a Republican POTUS got behind a podium and on national tv declared CNN, MSNBC, CBS, etc. were not news organizations. Would there be an outcry then?



This nut case is like many others, just that, a nut case. To label him as part of a group to promote an agenda is what we as citizens should be alarmed about.

Were never going to stop that as long as people believe so strongly in an agenda to defame the opposing side at any cost.



In a similar scenario, I came across a youtube video where some guy found out some prominent atheist who recently died was a member of nambla and posted a youtube video claiming look all atheists are pedo's. With a whole bucket load of comments from people saying "praise the lord I agree" and what have you. One atheist, wanted to **** kids, and they try to label the whole lot of us as boy raping pedos.



and its funny they dismiss all the cases of priests mormons or whatever from having illicit relations with children. Saying "they just werent good christians" but apparently the atheist bible (whatever that is) says in Atheisticus 1:7 "Thou shalt seek out children and **** them wherever they may be".

 

[MassHavoc]

Wow. looks like I missed all the fun in here, if someone could help me get caught up a bit though, when do we invade Norway?

 

[Tater]

Wow. looks like I missed all the fun in here, if someone could help me get caught up a bit though, when do we invade Norway?

Shhhhhh. It's a secret.

 

[MassHavoc]

Shhhhhh. It's a secret.

My bad, did I not do the handshake right?

 

[winos5]

According to various polls made in newspapers (not that reliable, granted) the vast majority of the Norwegian people do not want to see a change in law for harsher penalties not to mention re-introducing the death penalty. They pride themselves in being an open, tolerant and egalitarian country and they will not let one right-wing nutter change that. As I posted earlier, the max sentence is 21 years, but there is an option to keep adding 5 years to his detention for as long as they see fit.

Those statements seem diametrically opposed. Surely, continuing to add 5 years onto his prison sentance indefinately is some sort of human rights violation in such an open, tolerant egalitarian country.

 

[roshinaya]

Those statements seem diametrically opposed. Surely, continuing to add 5 years onto his prison sentance indefinately is some sort of human rights violation in such an open, tolerant egalitarian country.

They are not going change any laws (except maybe gun laws) because of this nutter. To extend the sentence is completely within the current laws. Obviously they will re-evaluate him after the 21 years, doubt he will be up for parole earlier, but who knows. It's not like they will arbitrarily extend his sentence by 5 years. This sort of procedure is far better than the usual lock 'em up and throw away the key sentencing or placing them on death row. Prison in Scandinavia is seen more as rehabilitation instead of strict punishment. Obviously there are those that are so far off the deep end that no rehabilitation will work and they stay locked up for longer.

 

[winos5]

They are not going change any laws (except maybe gun laws) because of this nutter. To extend the sentence is completely within the current laws. Obviously they will re-evaluate him after the 21 years, doubt he will be up for parole earlier, but who knows. It's not like they will arbitrarily extend his sentence by 5 years. This sort of procedure is far better than the usual lock 'em up and throw away the key sentencing or placing them on death row. Prison in Scandinavia is seen more as rehabilitation instead of strict punishment. Obviously there are those that are so far off the deep end that no rehabilitation will work and they stay locked up for longer.

I guess I would need to brush up on Norwegian crime and punishment to truly understand and form an opinion. My first thought was sentancing a convicted criminal to 21 years, and then indefinately adding additional years 5 at a time when he/she completes them doesn't sound open, tolerant or egalitarian.

 

[MassHavoc]

They are not going change any laws (except maybe gun laws) because of this nutter. To extend the sentence is completely within the current laws. Obviously they will re-evaluate him after the 21 years, doubt he will be up for parole earlier, but who knows. It's not like they will arbitrarily extend his sentence by 5 years. This sort of procedure is far better than the usual lock 'em up and throw away the key sentencing or placing them on death row. Prison in Scandinavia is seen more as rehabilitation instead of strict punishment. Obviously there are those that are so far off the deep end that no rehabilitation will work and they stay locked up for longer.

I doubt he'll be alive in 21 years. Unless he's in solitary the entire time.

 

[TSD]

I doubt he'll be alive in 21 years. Unless he's in solitary the entire time.

Are Norwegian prisons hardcore like that?

 

[MassHavoc]

Are Norwegian prisons hardcore like that?

I imagine all top level prisons are. This dude probably just became one of the most notorious figures in their history. Lot of people died, there are bound to be some mishaps. Maybe even relatives of some of the dead in prison? Who knows, but to me with as many groups he identifies with and doesn't identify with, one of them is bound to take exception.

 

[roshinaya]

Are Norwegian prisons hardcore like that?

No. I would say it's very rare here in Scandinavia. However they would probably opt keeping Breivik away from the rest of the population.

 

[BigPete]

No. I would say it's very rare here in Scandinavia. However they would probably opt keeping Breivik away from the rest of the population.

I poked around and can't even find information on gangs inside of Norway's prisons. I figured if anything they would have some branch of Aryan Nation folks and they would anoint him king shit and protect him.



The guy is a flake though. He is still trying to incite fear by claiming that there are sleeper cells out there. "Hey dipshit, you got caught on fucking camera as the LONE shooter!"