TGDT: 10/22 Blackhawks @ Blues 7:00PM CSN

[Pez68]

[quote name="R K"]



If that was Toews worst game of the year it was Keiths worst game of his career.



[/quote]



I thought it was the worst game I've EVER seen him play in the NHL. Hands down, no question in my mind. Not Toews' worst game of the year, the worst game in his career. It was like we had Tyler Arnason back out there centering that first line.... He was just brutal.



I haven't seen Keith play many worse games in his career either. You'd have to go back to his rookie year to find one that terrible.



We've played nine games, and we are averaging more than 33 shots a game against... That is TEN more than last year. Something has to give here. It isn't all team defense either, but that is certainly one of the problems. Turco doesn't take HALF as many whistles as Niemi did. He needs to freeze the fucking puck more. I'm sick of seeing him direct the puck into the corner right to the other team, on shots he could easily freeze in his chest or with his blocker/glove.

 

[the canadian dream]

[quote name="Pez68"]



I thought it was the worst game I've EVER seen him play in the NHL. Hands down, no question in my mind. Not Toews' worst game of the year, the worst game in his career. It was like we had Tyler Arnason back out there centering that first line.... He was just brutal.



I haven't seen Keith play many worse games in his career either. You'd have to go back to his rookie year to find one that terrible.



We've played nine games, and we are averaging more than 33 shots a game against... That is TEN more than last year. Something has to give here. It isn't all team defense either, but that is certainly one of the problems. Turco doesn't take HALF as many whistles as Niemi did. He needs to freeze the fucking puck more. I'm sick of seeing him direct the puck into the corner right to the other team, on shots he could easily freeze in his chest or with his blocker/glove.[/quote]





hmmmmm that's a very very very strong hockey eye Pez and in interesting nugget to chew on. As much as I do like Martys ability to play the puck (and trust me I do) I think you might have hit on something here. Never even thought about looking at it that deep. Interesting. There does seem to be less defensive zone faceoffs so far. That's always not a bad thing having defensive zone faceoffs esp when you win them and can start the play comming out of your zone more cleanly than having to win board battles for them. I have confidence enough in our centers to win those faceoffs.



I like your thoughts on that Pez. Something new to chew on.

 

[the canadian dream]

[quote name="BigPete"]Was it my imagination or was Hendry on the roster tonight? Did he get benched because of BOYNTON'S **** up? That is some bullllllllshiiiiiit.



Our defense as a unit sucks balls right now. Please get rid of Cullisuck, Scott, and bring back Leddy. Also, Soupdog, stop being a *****, put some uber knee braces on and get back out there ASAP![/quote]





But but he's not ready for the NHL. Who needs a young hungry blueliner when you have a guy who is playing way past his prime and wasn't very good in it to begin with?



Omg I have to be nicer. I actually like Culli and the guts he shows but damn the skill level just isn't there anymore. He's too slow for this game now. I don't care if he is a big body..if he doesn't use it right it's pointless. As for Scott I am tired of running circles around the issue of him. I amsure Campbell will balance out the defence a bit better on the blueline. Team defense still needs some work though and I chalk that up to all the rookies and new faces. There will be mistakes made by this team. Sadly it's a lot of the vet players who are making them right now.

 

[Chief Walking Stick]

[quote name="the canadian dream"]





But but he's not ready for the NHL. Who needs a young hungry blueliner when you have a guy who is playing way past his prime and wasn't very good in it to begin with?



Omg I have to be nicer. I actually like Culli and the guts he shows but damn the skill level just isn't there anymore. He's too slow for this game now. I don't care if he is a big body..if he doesn't use it right it's pointless. As for Scott I am tired of running circles around the issue of him. I amsure Campbell will balance out the defence a bit better on the blueline. Team defense still needs some work though and I chalk that up to all the rookies and new faces. There will be mistakes made by this team. Sadly it's a lot of the vet players who are making them right now.[/quote]



Scott should never play defense, period... there are no circles to run around!



IF HE IS GOING TO PLAY.... put him on the 4th line and run him out there for 5 minutes a game.



He's not out there to dent the scoresheet... he's out there to keep other hack douche teams honest... also dent their faces when necessary (unless you're a pussy like Winchturtle).

 

[the canadian dream]

[quote name="Stu Grimson"]



Scott should never play defense, period... there are no circles to run around!



IF HE IS GOING TO PLAY.... put him on the 4th line and run him out there for 5 minutes a game.



He's not out there to dent the scoresheet... he's out there to keep other hack douche teams honest... also dent their faces when necessary (unless you're a pussy like Winchturtle).[/quote]



Stu I will agree with you on this. Listen I don't hate Scott. I do think he serves a purpose as you said. 5 mins a game is even too much for him though lol. Listen I am fine with Scott on this team he doesn't need to be in every single game though. He has already played more games than I thought he would. Glad he dropped the gloves tonight and got his challenge I am even sure he let up a little in that fight but even so he is just as slow with his right hooks as he is on his skates lol. I'm not even sold on him as being a good fighter to be honest. I miss the guys like Probert and Grimson who actually were big guys but could also throw a quick punch. I'm not sure if we will ever see guys that can actually fight again.



And what I mean by that are guys that actually work on that side of the game. Cause when all is said and done...fighting in hockey is actually a skill. Not everyone can do it well and guys actually used to work on that part of the game. I loved the era of NHL fighting. But as you said earlier its MMA shit now and it's not the same. I hate the fight take down..absolutely hate it. So much that I would just rather do with the entire idea of the hockey fight than have to watch another MMA style wrestling match on the ice. Eventually someones going to be killed by some of those takes downs..head cracked right on the ice. Officials don't jump in at the right time anymore. players don't rspect each other during fights anymore. It's just not the same.



Futhermore hack players will always hack when on the ice though. Guys like Jackman (as an example) are paid to be hacks amoungst other things out there. So why is it people think that guys like Scott (whos job it is to keep the opposition in line) will be able to stop hack players (whos job it is to be hack players). The formula doesn't add up.



As for Winchester. He doesn't have to fight Scott. It's not his job to. He played a pissy hack game tonight and that's what he does. Something a guy like Bolland should be doing again.



Im rambling. **** ME.

 

[Shredder]

Well, four wins in a row and then a loss on the road against the Blues. Hardly something to get too worried about, result-wise. Despite sub-par performances from almost everyone, it was still a tie game with nine minutes left. The Hawks are tough to beat.



It's been covered already, but man did Keith suck. If you ever thought the giveaway stat made sense, go check how many he got credited with last night. To the naked eye, he probably had about ten of them. Two goals against were direct results of turnovers by him. Despite that, I'm still going to cut him some slack. When you play 26:49 and it significantly decreases your average, you know you're playing way too much.



The teams' five-on-five play isn't working so far. 15 goals scored, 17 goals allowed. And we're getting outshot by 3.2 shots a game after having had a positive margin of 9.0 last season. That's a humongous swing. Luckily, we've had solid goaltending and special teams. Otherwise, we could have easily gotten the short end of the stick in several of the close games we've been in to start the season.

 

[Irish Hawk]

Definitely a bad night at the office with very few positives. Toews needs to get out of his funk ASAP, his slow starts are really getting to me. Boynton was horrible and Keith looks shattered out there, those extra minutes are really starting to show.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

I am not going to go back and read this entire thread, because I already know who the whipping boys are....the D-men everyone hate, and don't forget to throw Marty in there because he made a single fundamental mistake.

The entire team looked like shit last night. I swear to god I thought I was watching the 2nd game in a back to back. Getting beat to pucks, getting muscled off of pucks, crap passing, shitty low percentage shots....horrible.

I am not going to ride everyone else's favorite whipping boys, Boynton and Culllimore. They were brought here to play 5/6 D men minutes, unfortunately they are playing 3/4 minutes right now, and I am sorry to disagree with all of you other Hockey Geniuses, but they are doing a decent job of it. But the Hawks lost last night so everyone wants to go back to standard operating procedure and pin it on them. Take a look a the game our #1 pair had last night...dissect that for a bit. Then put blame on someones shoulders if you want to blame the D.

The way the team I watched played last night, I expected the score to end up 6 or more to 0, vice what it actually did. Marty kept them in that game, regardless of making one dumb fundamental lapse. I am willing to bet more than one of you made a Huet comparison about it though didn't you?? Jesus one fucking loss and we are back to the same old crap around here.



I doubt that i wll get to see tonights game as we are hitting the road for Jacksonville today to go to my sister's wedding.

 

[FlaHawkFan]

[quote name="Pez68"]



I thought it was the worst game I've EVER seen him play in the NHL. Hands down, no question in my mind. Not Toews' worst game of the year, the worst game in his career. It was like we had Tyler Arnason back out there centering that first line.... He was just brutal.



I haven't seen Keith play many worse games in his career either. You'd have to go back to his rookie year to find one that terrible.



We've played nine games, and we are averaging more than 33 shots a game against... That is TEN more than last year. Something has to give here. It isn't all team defense either, but that is certainly one of the problems. Turco doesn't take HALF as many whistles as Niemi did. He needs to freeze the fucking puck more. I'm sick of seeing him direct the puck into the corner right to the other team, on shots he could easily freeze in his chest or with his blocker/glove.[/quote]



Totally agree with this, Pez. It's great that Turco can redirect the puck the way he does but sometimes you can tell the Hawks are scrambling and need a break and in those situations, Turco needs to freeze the puck instead of sending it off into the corner so they can scramble some more. No, he doesn't give up a lot of juicy rebounds in front of his net, but he does need to freeze the puck more to give his D a breather.



As for Keith . . . I think his new salary is hurting him in the sense that with the contract, the Norris, and the lack of anybody else on D who can move the puck in Soupy's absence, he's just plain trying too hard. Throughout his career I've noticed that he gets into trouble when he tries to do too much and that's what he's been doing most every game this season. Tonight he needs to back to the simpler game he played Wednesday against the Canucks, his best game of the season. He plays much better that way. Still, I think Dunc's game will improve greatly after Campbell returns. I sure hope so. I'm happy with the fact that he called himself out for sloppy play last night -- so the fact that he's struggling isn't a secret to him.



Bottom line, the Hawks as a team didn't play their best last night yet they still could have and should have gotten at least a point against a good Blues team but for Turco's awful play on the third goal. But last season they always seemed to hold something back in the first game of back-to-backs and I think that's part of what happened here. Looking for a much better effort (and hopefully a fairly easy win) tonight.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="acco-redtribe"]Am I wrong? Wasn't it Cullisuck's skate that redirected that 3rd goal into our net? Yes, Marty should have had that but I could have sworn it was off Cullisuck for another goal against our team.





No from the replay is was clear that it got redirected off of polak's skate. It did hit Cully then Polak. So fucked up goal but your going to have those once in a while, just sucks because it seems like it only happens to us, we never get those bullshit goals for us.. funny.



As far as Keith's, its not his contract, I don't know what it is , but I believe its the overall players in his shift, If you were used to certain players for a few years then had to adjust in a matter of a few months, that's not that easy. It has nothing to do with the signing. Look at Toews, Bolland, browy, Kane at some shift. They are all not there yet. Guys they just won the cup in June, and they are back on the Ice 3 months later after partying their asses off. I bet some still reek of Vodka. They are way past what I expected them to be at.



The whole team did not play all that well today, you can't win them all. We have played so many games in a matter of 7 days without a day or two off to practice, so all the sloppiness will show if Q can't put in practice time. No practicing, missing players, consecutive games in a matter of a week and a half and were 5-3-1. **** ya I'll take it!!! these guys are not superhuman, at least not yet.[/quote]





Dude, Polak took the shot. It's impossible it went off his skate. It redirected under Cullimores knee. 100%. It was Backas standing there but the puck did not hit his skate.





And Eddie O Jr, Turco has some of the best rebound control of any goalie in the league. That's where he's SUPPOSED to redirect them!!

 

[Ashor-redtribe]

Dude, Polak took the shot. It's impossible it went off his skate. It redirected under Cullimores knee. 100%. It was Backas standing there but the puck did not hit his skate.



could be my father in laws blurry projection T.V. cause I thought it was pollak, Can't wait ti'll he gets a new T.V. thanks for the correction RK.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]I am not going to go back and read this entire thread, because I already know who the whipping boys are....the D-men everyone hate, and don't forget to throw Marty in there because he made a single fundamental mistake.

The entire team looked like shit last night. I swear to god I thought I was watching the 2nd game in a back to back. Getting beat to pucks, getting muscled off of pucks, crap passing, shitty low percentage shots....horrible.

I am not going to ride everyone else's favorite whipping boys, Boynton and Culllimore. They were brought here to play 5/6 D men minutes, unfortunately they are playing 3/4 minutes right now, and I am sorry to disagree with all of you other Hockey Geniuses, but they are doing a decent job of it. But the Hawks lost last night so everyone wants to go back to standard operating procedure and pin it on them. Take a look a the game our #1 pair had last night...dissect that for a bit. Then put blame on someones shoulders if you want to blame the D.

The way the team I watched played last night, I expected the score to end up 6 or more to 0, vice what it actually did. Marty kept them in that game, regardless of making one dumb fundamental lapse. I am willing to bet more than one of you made a Huet comparison about it though didn't you?? Jesus one fucking loss and we are back to the same old crap around here.



I doubt that i wll get to see tonights game as we are hitting the road for Jacksonville today to go to my sister's wedding.[/quote]



But I thought you said you werent going to read the entire thread? :dance:



It's a loss against a team that plays us very well. Not a huge deal in the scheme of 82 games I agree.

 

[5Minutes4Fighting]

[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]I am not going to go back and read this entire thread, because I already know who the whipping boys are....the D-men everyone hate, and don't forget to throw Marty in there because he made a single fundamental mistake.

The entire team looked like shit last night. I swear to god I thought I was watching the 2nd game in a back to back. Getting beat to pucks, getting muscled off of pucks, crap passing, shitty low percentage shots....horrible.

I am not going to ride everyone else's favorite whipping boys, Boynton and Culllimore. They were brought here to play 5/6 D men minutes, unfortunately they are playing 3/4 minutes right now, and I am sorry to disagree with all of you other Hockey Geniuses, but they are doing a decent job of it. But the Hawks lost last night so everyone wants to go back to standard operating procedure and pin it on them. Take a look a the game our #1 pair had last night...dissect that for a bit. Then put blame on someones shoulders if you want to blame the D.

The way the team I watched played last night, I expected the score to end up 6 or more to 0, vice what it actually did. Marty kept them in that game, regardless of making one dumb fundamental lapse. I am willing to bet more than one of you made a Huet comparison about it though didn't you?? Jesus one fucking loss and we are back to the same old crap around here.



I doubt that i wll get to see tonights game as we are hitting the road for Jacksonville today to go to my sister's wedding.[/quote]

I have an idea, not ***** about what people are posting, especially when you don't even read what people are posting. And fyi, there were no Huet comparisons. Even if there were, big fuckin deal. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. And after a loss with not a great effort and a soft/flukie goal, there's going to be some dissatisfaction amongst the coaches and players themselves, as well as fans and message boards. Happens all the time, even to the best teams. Everyone here knows what this team can do.



-5Minutes

 

[BigPete]

[quote name="bubbleheadchief"]I am not going to go back and read this entire thread, because I already know who the whipping boys are....the D-men everyone hate, and don't forget to throw Marty in there because he made a single fundamental mistake.

The entire team looked like shit last night. I swear to god I thought I was watching the 2nd game in a back to back. Getting beat to pucks, getting muscled off of pucks, crap passing, shitty low percentage shots....horrible.

I am not going to ride everyone else's favorite whipping boys, Boynton and Culllimore. They were brought here to play 5/6 D men minutes, unfortunately they are playing 3/4 minutes right now, and I am sorry to disagree with all of you other Hockey Geniuses, but they are doing a decent job of it. But the Hawks lost last night so everyone wants to go back to standard operating procedure and pin it on them. Take a look a the game our #1 pair had last night...dissect that for a bit. Then put blame on someones shoulders if you want to blame the D.

The way the team I watched played last night, I expected the score to end up 6 or more to 0, vice what it actually did. Marty kept them in that game, regardless of making one dumb fundamental lapse. I am willing to bet more than one of you made a Huet comparison about it though didn't you?? Jesus one fucking loss and we are back to the same old crap around here.



I doubt that i wll get to see tonights game as we are hitting the road for Jacksonville today to go to my sister's wedding.[/quote]

I smell what you are stepping in Chief, but I was there in the 8th row behind Turco for two periods. I saw with my own eyes that this defense sucks balls. It is directly because of Scott, Cullimore, and Boynton. There is a reason those three are castoffs who spent thier time recently on minor league rosters.

I understand the position Scooter was in over the summer with the salary cap, but that is no excuse for weighing down the roster with guys that can't skate half as well as old time amatuers in my men's league. For crying out loud, I am an overwieght 32 year old who only started playing hockey 6 years ago and I am pretty damn sure my peers would say I skate better than those three. Hell I have played hockey with some of the guys here and I was sick as a dog that day, and I bet they would say I am a better skater than those guys.

Scooter needs to do something about it, before it gets worse. We can't sit around and wait till Soup is healthy.

This is only going to get worse. Mark my words.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="BigPete"]

I smell what you are stepping in Chief, but I was there in the 8th row behind Turco for two periods. I saw with my own eyes that this defense sucks balls. It is directly because of Scott, Cullimore, and Boynton. There is a reason those three are castoffs who spent thier time recently on minor league rosters.

I understand the position Scooter was in over the summer with the salary cap, but that is no excuse for weighing down the roster with guys that can't skate half as well as old time amatuers in my men's league. For crying out loud, I am an overwieght 32 year old who only started playing hockey 6 years ago and I am pretty damn sure my peers would say I skate better than those three. Hell I have played hockey with some of the guys here and I was sick as a dog that day, and I bet they would say I am a better skater than those guys.

Scooter needs to do something about it, before it gets worse. We can't sit around and wait till Soup is healthy.

This is only going to get worse. Mark my words.[/quote]

Pete, I am not diagreeing at all that the D is hurting. I know they are working with what they have and many of those are senior journeymen making league minimum. I made an assumption without reading the thread, and as I have gone back and read the thread now, (as someone else had a huge fucking heartache in the fact I hadn't read it), turns out I was right about what i said, people are going to cry about the saidjourneymen that are playing more minutes in situations they normally dont, so I am not surprised or angered they arent playing at norris trophy winning levels. Now is it my fault the sarcasm that i thought I was typing out at 0700 this morning was miscontrued by some....not in my opinion.



They have lost one in the last 5 games. D looks weak, Marty has kept them in those games.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="BigPete"]

I smell what you are stepping in Chief, but I was there in the 8th row behind Turco for two periods. I saw with my own eyes that this defense sucks balls. It is directly because of Scott, Cullimore, and Boynton. There is a reason those three are castoffs who spent thier time recently on minor league rosters.

I understand the position Scooter was in over the summer with the salary cap, but that is no excuse for weighing down the roster with guys that can't skate half as well as old time amatuers in my men's league. For crying out loud, I am an overwieght 32 year old who only started playing hockey 6 years ago and I am pretty damn sure my peers would say I skate better than those three. Hell I have played hockey with some of the guys here and I was sick as a dog that day, and I bet they would say I am a better skater than those guys.

Scooter needs to do something about it, before it gets worse. We can't sit around and wait till Soup is healthy.

This is only going to get worse. Mark my words.[/quote]



Not a chance in hell on your best day. Two of those guys have their name on the Stanley Cup. One of them TWICE!



And I'm not sure what's going to get worse? The team is going to get worse? I don't agree with that either.

 

[PatrickShart]

Hawks had won 4 in a row before last nite...



That was their first loss...by more than 1 goal (it was 2)





And have been without Soupy (20+ min a game guy)



Bolland and Toews have either not played well not produced points (2g between both of them) - (I know, I'll feel a wrath)



Keith and Seabrook have been overplayed and played poorly because of this at times - hopefully when their minutes go down about 4-5 min a game, the mistakes will too. (again....I'm sure I'll get pummeled again for talking bad about them - but I'll genuflect and go to confession for forgiveness)



Keith and Hjalmarsson's play has nothing to do with contracts...but in missing their #3 Dman.



And for the people that say that Kopecky is playing well because its a "contract year"...then wouldnt Seabrook and Brouwer (been playing better last few games) be doing the same?





When Soupy went down last year - the team went - 9-6-3

Keith and Seabrook were a combined +41 last year - but w/o Soupy -

Keith - 18gms -1g-8a-9pts -3

Seabrook - 16gms - 1g-6a-7pts - -1



Currently, the team is 5-3-1 without him (and Hjalm for 2 1/2 gms in there as well). They'll be fine. Cullimore, Boynton and Scott will be good 5/6/7 when Brian gets back, Skille and Stahlberg have been very good, Dowell and Pisani have improved the teams PK....the team just needs Campbell, Bolland and Toews to come back.

 

[Guest]

Good post. Not sure why you'd feel wrath.



The team clearly misses Campbell.

 

[Pez68]

And Eddie O Jr, Turco has some of the best rebound control of any goalie in the league. That's where he's SUPPOSED to redirect them!!

His rebound control is fine. It is his judgement in directing easy shots into the corners instead of freezing them, that I'm referring to. When we're scrambling, he needs to grab that puck, freeze it, and get a damn whistle. And if you refer to me as Eddie O Jr. again, next time I see you I'm gonna kick your ass.

 

[Guest]

[quote name="Pez68"]



His rebound control is fine. It is his judgement in directing easy shots into the corners instead of freezing them, that I'm referring to. When we're scrambling, he needs to grab that puck, freeze it, and get a damn whistle. And if you refer to me as Eddie O Jr. again, next time I see you I'm gonna kick your ass. [/quote]



You better bring friends Jr. :dance:





And I'd rather have him shoot them to the boards than try and keep most of them. Good way to cause GA's when you don't have too. He has very good puck control in that sense. The D is losing the battles on the boards, or in Keiths case last night, giving the puck away, to cause GA's.



Two of the three goals were D not clearing the puck. The 3rd was D redirecting the puck. Nothing of which have anything to do with Turco's rebounds.