TGDT: 11/19 Blackhawks @ Flames 8:30PM CSN

[R K]

Scary scary thought, Ron.



I think the Canucks are smelling blood and are going to come out as such.... we don't have buff in front of the net riling up Luon6o, we don't have Ladd flying around agitating pukes like Kesler. We don't have Eager to knock out Bieksa's teeth either...



It looks and smells like a loss with how the Nucks are playing and how well the Sedin sisters are playing together.



.... unlike the last few games, I'm not going to be disappointed if John Scott is dressed for this one...

I don't think they'll fold, but I've been wrong before.



St. Louis got the shit kicked out of them in Detroit then steam rolled the Sens last night. Every team has games like this. Last year we were fortunate but there have been many years with games like last night. We did lose half our Roster and I tried to make light of it, but more and more that's coming back to haunt this team.

 

[BlackHawkPaul]

For most teams, scoring the first goal is a sure sign of solidifying a win.

Seems like the Hawks have been having major problems building leads, then coughing up those said leads to give them away seconds later.

It's like having a team full of one way players, when you know this team is capable of the back check.



That being said, the Canucks will not lay off a hurting Hawks team.

I also don't think you're going to see Chicago let in 7 two nights in a row.

 

[PatrickShart]

Channeling my inner Capt Hindsight...





Hawks should've moved -

Bolland and his 3.375mil....



and kept



Ladd - 7g - 12a - 19pts - -1 (2.35mil)

Reasoner - 3g - 7a - 10pts - +7 (1,15mil)



The team is missing some grit. To think that Kane, Sharp or Hossa will bring that or blaming them for not being the players that are bringing that is wrong. Those guys are still scoring at the pace or better than what they've done in the past.



The team misses the greasy play and guys like Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer are the ones that are supposed to be bringing that and are not. Where is the Bolland that agitated the other teams top players? Or has Brouwer dropped the gloves one time this year? Bickell at 6'4 230 needs to be around the net and a helluva lot tougher on the boards.



To ask/or want Kane or Sharp to be guys that now drive the net or barrell into corners is like expecting Bolland to be a 40 goal scorer or Brouwer to start dangling with the puck. It's out of their role/ability.



To bring up/expect it from the young prospects like Makarov or Beach is asking alot for those kids.



IMO....time to move the killer B's - and by killer B's i mean killing the Hawks right not.

 

[R K]

Channeling my inner Capt Hindsight...





Hawks should've moved -

Bolland and his 3.375mil....



and kept



Ladd - 7g - 12a - 19pts - -1 (2.35mil)

Reasoner - 3g - 7a - 10pts - +7 (1,15mil)



The team is missing some grit. To think that Kane, Sharp or Hossa will bring that or blaming them for not being the players that are bringing that is wrong. Those guys are still scoring at the pace or better than what they've done in the past.



The team misses the greasy play and guys like Bolland, Bickell and Brouwer are the ones that are supposed to be bringing that and are not. Where is the Bolland that agitated the other teams top players? Or has Brouwer dropped the gloves one time this year? Bickell at 6'4 230 needs to be around the net and a helluva lot tougher on the boards.



To ask/or want Kane or Sharp to be guys that now drive the net or barrell into corners is like expecting Bolland to be a 40 goal scorer or Brouwer to start dangling with the puck. It's out of their role/ability.



To bring up/expect it from the young prospects like Makarov or Beach is asking alot for those kids.



IMO....time to move the killer B's - and by killer B's i mean killing the Hawks right not.

No HEART!!!



Oh, wrong thread. Forgive me.....



But they make this much money!!

 

[Spunky Porkstacker]

I mentioned this last year and was crucified for saying it. But you're not imagining it TCD. I saw signs of this problem last year. This year, it's really manifesting itself. As a matter of fact, I saw this in his rookie year...so much so that I resisted the urge of putting his name/number on my home sweater. Glad I had #19 put on there instead....

Ya, they definitely should have traded him, especially after everything he's done and everything he'll do in the future. Do you honestly not believe going forward that he is'nt one our our top 3 players (Toews, Hossa). This season is a bump in the road that may or may not turn around this year. But looking forward with our core and tweaking the role players we have its hard to believe there won't be more cups in the future and PK will definitely play a key role. It is young team that is having major growing pains right now. Compare Pk to other 21 year olds around the league, who you taking?

 

[Variable]

He says it in his post yet in the first one he singles out Kane. Funny fucking shit.



Even in the second he singles out Kane, while admitting the rest are just like him. HAHA!!!!

Yeah but I don't really mind that. It's obvious Kane can be a top 10 player in the NHL, he has the talent. To the Hawks, Toews and Kane are Crosby and Malkin, you gotta take all the praise that comes with winning it all with the criticism and singling out that losing brings. Yeah it's a team sport, but not everyone on the team is Kane, they don't have his kind of talent. He has to play like he can on a consistent basis, he has to help lead the team out of tough losses/games, etc.

 

[R K]

That also works for Toews, Sharp, and especially Hossa, as he's the most talented offensive player on the team.



Can't single Kane out like that. Well you can but it's dumb when the entire team plays like shit.



It also works on the defensive side too where Seabrook, Keith, Hjarlmarsson and Campbell are concerned. Two of those guys were ok last night and the other two sucked. I'll let you guess which two, were where.

 

[Variable]

That's what I mean, Toews/Kane/Keith/Seabrook, these guys that are supposed to be the leaders of the team, you have to rise above it and try to get the rest of the team back on track. Singling any or all of those guys out, I don't really mind. We have no problem doing that to other teams when they falter, I don't see how it should be any different when our team hits those same kind of struggles.

 

[R K]

When it becomes an individual problem, I guess I have no problem singling them out. As of right now it's not an individual problem.

 

[Pez68]

When it becomes an individual problem, I guess I have no problem singling them out. As of right now it's not an individual problem.

Sure it is. It's an individual problem with about half the team, and it is becoming a recurring problem.

 

[R K]

what ever.

 

[PatrickShart]

At the same point last year...compared to this year - 22gms -



Kane

09-10 - 11g - 12a - 23pts - + 7 (off the scoresheet in 6gms)

10-11 - 7g - 12a - 19pts - -7 (21gms - off the scoresheet in 7gms)



Sharp

09-10 - 6g - 13a - 19pts - +7

10-11 - 11g - 10a - 21pts - -11



Hossa

09-10 - 6g - 7a - 13pts -+2

10-11 - 8g - 6a - 14pts - E (17gms)



Toews

09-10 - 7g - 10a - 17pts - +12

10-11 - 8g - 9a - 17pts - +5



Bolland

09-10 - 1g - 5a - 6pts - +2

10-11 - 1g - 2qa - 3pts - E (16gms)



Brouwer

09-10 - 6g - 5a - 11pts - E

10-11 - 2g - 8a - 10pts -1



Kopecky

09-10 - 1g - 2a - 3pts - - 5

10-11 - 2g - 7a - 9pts - -12



Kane, Hossa and Sharp are point producer. They're not the muck/grinders. Never have been ....never will be. So people will be awfully disappointed if they "all of a sudden" expect them to mix it up. They're producing at the same pace - or damn near it. Did they have more heart last year, simply because they were winning? Here's what they were missing from last years players, at this point -



Versteeg - 6g - 9a - 15pts - +7

Ladd - 4g - 6a - 10pts - +9

Byfuglien - 7g - 2a - 9pts - -4

Madden - 4g - 4a - 8pts - -1

Fraser - 0g - 3a - 3pts - -1

Eager missed first portion...played handful of games....had 0pts

Totals - 11g - 24a - 35pts - +10 ( total salaries - 12.048mil)



The "replacements" - Stalberg, Pisani, Dowell, Bickell, Skille - 18g - 21a - 39pts - (3.017mil total salaries)



The biggest thing this team is missing...is a 3rd line. The line of "role players" that will fight, claw, scratch a team back when it needs it. It's NOT going to be Kane, Hossa, or Sharp. Not Stalberg either. IMO...the 3 lines that the players are having an impact in games are -

Stalberg - Toews - Kane - Line 1

Kopecky - Sharp - Hossa - Line 2 .....I know, I know...people will say Tomas isnt top 6. But he plays well with Hossa and I think this can be effective

THIRD LINE - ??????????????????????????

Bickell - Dowell - Skille - Line 4 ........these guys have played well as a unit



That leaves....Bolland, Brouwer, Pisani as a line. Pisani has been a good PKer...but a better 4th liner for his 5 on 5 play. Bolland and Brouwer both bring nothing to the table when it comes to physicality, chippyness (is that a word?), emotion...nothing. The 4th line of Bickell, Skille, Dowell have all hit, tried to fight, etc.....But what happened to the Bolland that got under the skin Sedins, Thornton, etc? Brouwer has turned into a complimentary player, and not a role player. I dont think the team needs much offense from that line with the scoring on the other lines that they have. But they need some nastiness and grit - that Bolland and Brouwer lack or refuse to give. Thats the "attitude" missing. Again, its not something that the "scorers" are lacking.

 

[R K]

An excellent post.

 

[phranchk]

You bring up some good points PMX, but honestly, another year in the league for Toews and Kane at their age and they should be producing at a better pace than the previous season. You have to expect some improvement from them.

However, the biggest problem so far this year hasn't been offense, it's been lack of defense. I think a poor 3rd D paring is part of it. We also don't have that shut down line we had last year with Ladd and Bolland. I think we miss Ladd the most of all the players we lost.

With that said, I think the defense has shown promise over the last 3 weeks (with the exception of yesterday).

 

[R K]

Tonight will say a lot about where this team is headed.

 

[Pez68]

So the problem is our lack of a third line, and not the fact that our star players are only going all out when trying to score goals, but dragging ass when trying to prevent them? Or the fact that as soon as our star players start to get pushed around out there, they disappear? Or the fact that our star players are useless 5 on 5? The lack of a "third" line is one of the problems(I prefer shutdown line), but it is certainly not the biggest problem. It's not like our third and fourth lines are getting scored on a ton... The problem is, we don't have the depth we had the last two seasons, so our star players need to step up and play like stars. They just aren't doing that.



I hate to use Crosby as an example for ANYTHING, but he continues to produce, play well, and carry his team, despite playing with half the talent at wing that Toews has(he hasn't had an elite winger in his entire time playing). Johnny is the captain of this team, an all-star, a gold medal winner, the Conn Smythe winner, and one of the top paid centers in the NHL. He needs to start playing like it. The same goes for Kane, except it's a silver medal, and no Conn Smythe. Our defense can only do so much when they're facing odd man rushes all game... There is no excuse for Toews disappearing for stretches during the season when he plays with talents like Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. Crosby would KILL to play with any of those three on his wing. There is also no excuse for those guys giving up on plays and not busting their ass in our end of the ice.



You keep bringing up points, but are ignoring the fact that we aren't doing shit even strength. Kane leads the team in ES points, has as many even strength points as Todd fucking Bertuzzi, and has played four more games. Our 5 on 5 play SUCKS. Period. That has very little to do with our third and fourth liners, as they don't play a whole lot even strength. That is almost entirely on our top 10 players. They play the majority of the game at even strength, they need to step up their game.



Kopecky in the top six? Have you not watched him play the last 10 games? He's fucking brutal. He's been on the ice for 20 even strength goals against and can't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot. I think he and Brouwer should be shopped around so we can bring up players that are willing to do what the team needs them to do(Makarov, Beach, Morin).

 

[Rex]

So the problem is our lack of a third line, and not the fact that our star players are only going all out when trying to score goals, but dragging ass when trying to prevent them? Or the fact that as soon as our star players start to get pushed around out there, they disappear? Or the fact that our star players are useless 5 on 5? The lack of a "third" line is one of the problems(I prefer shutdown line), but it is certainly not the biggest problem. It's not like our third and fourth lines are getting scored on a ton... The problem is, we don't have the depth we had the last two seasons, so our star players need to step up and play like stars. They just aren't doing that.



I hate to use Crosby as an example for ANYTHING, but he continues to produce, play well, and carry his team, despite playing with half the talent at wing that Toews has(he hasn't had an elite winger in his entire time playing). Johnny is the captain of this team, an all-star, a gold medal winner, the Conn Smythe winner, and one of the top paid centers in the NHL. He needs to start playing like it. The same goes for Kane, except it's a silver medal, and no Conn Smythe. Our defense can only do so much when they're facing odd man rushes all game... There is no excuse for Toews disappearing for stretches during the season when he plays with talents like Kane, Hossa, and Sharp. Crosby would KILL to play with any of those three on his wing. There is also no excuse for those guys giving up on plays and not busting their ass in our end of the ice.



You keep bringing up points, but are ignoring the fact that we aren't doing shit even strength. Kane leads the team in ES points, has as many even strength points as Todd fucking Bertuzzi, and has played four more games. Our 5 on 5 play SUCKS. Period. That has very little to do with our third and fourth liners, as they don't play a whole lot even strength. That is almost entirely on our top 10 players. They play the majority of the game at even strength, they need to step up their game.



Kopecky in the top six? Have you not watched him play the last 10 games? He's fucking brutal. He's been on the ice for 20 even strength goals against and can't hit the broad side of a barn with his shot. I think he and Brouwer should be shopped around so we can bring up players that are willing to do what the team needs them to do(Makarov, Beach, Morin).

at this point to me, its 4th line minutes or Pressbox for Kopecky and Brouwer. Hockey is a "what have you done for me lately" game, and they haven't done **** all in the past handfull of games. Put Stalberg with Toews and Hossa, put Skille with Kane and Sharp...The kids can't do much worse than Brouwer and Kopecky's combined -13. Skille has been producing at six points in the last eight games (3-3-6) despite only playing around 10:30 a night. What do we honestly have to lose?

 

[PatrickShart]

Yes, I've watched Kopecky play the last 10 games. And how many of those 10 was he with Hossa - who, when playing together the first 10 games of the season, Hossa had 11pts and a +5 and Kopecky had 8 pts in those 10 games and +5. I also know, they played together in the Olympics on the same line and the team had a very good run together.



Since Hossa got hurt, they havent played together, and Kopecky's numbers went down as well as Hossa's. Therefore....if you don't want to call Kopecky a top 6 because some hate that label, fine. But the number show those 2 play well together and get alot out of each other, but since god forbid Kopecky plays on the top 2 lines...so be it.



Comparing Toews to Crosby? Really? Crosby came into the league a superstar point scorer. Toews isnt - and never wil be him. Crosby has more points in his first 2 years than Toews has in his 3.25yr career. Oh...and Crosby - the year they won the cup - "carried his team" to a 21-20-3 record at the all-star break that year. Arent the Hawks around .500 now?



Youre right that I dont give a shit that thier points are on the PP or ES. Last time I checked, they all count. If you win a game 3-2...with 2 PP goals, - is it less of a win? This team has played a the most games of any team, in the least amount of time. Which means, other teams will have to catch up as the year goes on. The rest may help then.



Toews and Kane have been and are class/hard working players. They don't "all of a sudden" decide not to work hard. You're not 22 and Gold/Silver Medals, ROY, Conn Smythe, Stanley Cup winners in a 3 year span...then decide they dont want to work hard. What did Datsyuk and Zetteberg do as 22 year olds in the league? They weren't there. They were only 70 and 80 point scorers respectively in year 4 - as 26 year olds.



Its different now being the hunted - defending cup champions - and I have confidence they'll get it.

 

[PatrickShart]

Man....Kopecky is BRUTAL. No way he should be back on a line with Hossa.



Drew 2 penalties...set up Sharps goal...Brutal.