The 2 guys that change the culture are Pete Carroll & Vrabel

[TezMaKai]

Really?

I thought it was $Hits

Your mom

 

[Canth]

I guess to continue my thought on culture, to make any real change, I think there has to be actual accountability. Not just lip service to it, but actual accountability.

And actually going back against my previous post on Belichick, one thing you hear from former Patriots players that made a difference was team meetings and film review as a entire team calling out good and bad plays. There wasn't any hiding anything from the team.

Then you contrast that with the rumors from Eberflus and Waldron where it sounded like there were almost no entire team meetings but just position group meetings. If true, I can see how that can create friction between position groups and between offense and defense. I mean hell, if you didn't study as a group at all, then I would expect it even harder to communicate how an entire play came together and timing and such.

I'm not any sort of coach, but you would think any sort of culture change has to involve getting back to the basics: teach fundamentals, footwork, etc, actually teach filmwork if you need to so guys learn what you expect to them to study (vs just 'watching film' but not learning a damn thing from what you actually watched), set expectations and grade them against their ability to meet those expectations. Basic shit but it still sounds like things that have been missing for a while now in Chicago.

 

[Les Grossman]

The Bears brass only care about their own culture, not the team culture of winning.

They in my want to please ownership and be comfortable working with their “buddies”.

Ownership is complacent.

 

[TL1961]

I guess to continue my thought on culture, to make any real change, I think there has to be actual accountability. Not just lip service to it, but actual accountability.

And actually going back against my previous post on Belichick, one thing you hear from former Patriots players that made a difference was team meetings and film review as a entire team calling out good and bad plays. There wasn't any hiding anything from the team.

Then you contrast that with the rumors from Eberflus and Waldron where it sounded like there were almost no entire team meetings but just position group meetings. If true, I can see how that can create friction between position groups and between offense and defense. I mean hell, if you didn't study as a group at all, then I would expect it even harder to communicate how an entire play came together and timing and such.

I'm not any sort of coach, but you would think any sort of culture change has to involve getting back to the basics: teach fundamentals, footwork, etc, actually teach filmwork if you need to so guys learn what you expect to them to study (vs just 'watching film' but not learning a damn thing from what you actually watched), set expectations and grade them against their ability to meet those expectations. Basic shit but it still sounds like things that have been missing for a while now in Chicago.

You seem to be all over the board. You’re suggesting the offense and defense need to have a team meeting together so they can “ communicate how an entire play came together and timing and such”.

What does that even mean? They’re not on the field at the same time.

I’m not against the idea of having a full team meeting mind you, I just don’t understand what you’re saying .


And then the whole comment about “they should study film“ what? Do you think they’re not doing that?

 

[remydat]

And Eberflus was a culture guy.
So was John Fox.

When they didn't win, are their "culture BS" when down the shitter.

So was Bellichick. So was Pete Carrol. We can all cherry pick examples to fit our narrative but it doesnt prove anything.

culture and success - Google Search

There has been enough literature on how culture influences success in virtually all fields including sports.

I get you like to troll but sometimes it is best to be smart about it.

 

[remydat]

The very last guy I want to see anywhere near Halas Hall.

To each his own. I think Flores has earned a 2nd chance.

I think we’re over stating the whole culture issue. Last year while flus was fucking up late game situations with his poor decision making, the team was still playing very hard for him. I know it got to a boiling point this year with more “holy crap” late game moments, but I don’t see that the whole player culture is such a big problem.

As someone else stated, bringing a competent coach who doesn’t piss the game away and this roster isn’t a mess culture wise.

That being said, we can only wonder what would’ve happened had they just sent tyrique packing after that Hail Mary. We should be glad they didn’t I suppose or we’d be stuck with our previous coach.

The team was fragile mentally. Yes they still played hard but there was too much talking to the media about things that should stay behind doors.

Further, Flus lacked accountability which upset the players. In hindsight he would have been better off just eating some of the blame even if he didnt believe it.

 

[Canth]

You seem to be all over the board. You’re suggesting the offense and defense need to have a team meeting together so they can “ communicate how an entire play came together and timing and such”.

What does that even mean? They’re not on the field at the same time.

I’m not against the idea of having a full team meeting mind you, I just don’t understand what you’re saying .


And then the whole comment about “they should study film“ what? Do you think they’re not doing that?

Sorry about that.

From an accountability standpoint, what I have heard from players like Edelman and Gronk during interviews and podcasts is that Bill would have the entire team together to review the previous game film. There was accountability because he and the coaches would call things out in front of everyone. There was no hiding or hearsay. It was front and center and no one, not even Brady, escaped being called out.

It worked for them. I know that doesn't mean it will work for everyone. For example, I have not really heard what Reid does. He may do it differently and if so, it's obviously working there.

It was a shot at Waldron where I thought I read that he never had the entire offense together. That just seemed strange to me and good way for the left hand to not fully appreciate or know what the right is doing and just bad coaching.

On the film study bit, I assume that everyone 'watches' film. But what are players learning from it? Are they really learning anything or are they going through the motions of it because they know they are supposed to watch film? Has anyone really taught them what to study to actually help them get better?

I don't know, I'm probably overthinking it. But at this point, with a new coaching staff, I would prefer they don't make assumptions and come in with the mindset of starting over from scratch with the basics and make sure that -everyone- is on the same page and build from there.

 

[TL1961]

To each his own. I think Flores has earned a 2nd chance.


The team was fragile mentally. Yes they still played hard but there was too much talking to the media about things that should stay behind doors.

Further, Flus lacked accountability which upset the players. In hindsight he would have been better off just eating some of the blame even if he didnt believe it.

Oh, I definitely agree with you there. But that’s part of my point on the culture thing. If flus didn’t hold them accountable, that’s the coaching issue not necessarily the players.

But yeah, there’s plenty of yapping and more guys need to just look in the mirror.

 

[TL1961]

As far as film, study and players taking accountability for their own play, both would be relevant to an example I remember hearing from John Madden.

Madden said most players, when seeing their poor play on film would wanna hide under the table or cover their head or hurry to the next play.

Art shell, the OL, when watching a replay of a play on which his man beat him, would have the projectionist rerun the play over and over so he could see what he was doing wrong and better himself. Art went on to a hall of fame career.

 

[nc0gnet0]

So was Bellichick. So was Pete Carrol. We can all cherry pick examples to fit our narrative but it doesnt prove anything.

culture and success - Google Search

There has been enough literature on how culture influences success in virtually all fields including sports.

I get you like to troll but sometimes it is best to be smart about it.

lmao, winning establishes a winning culture
losing does the opposite.

 

[Bearly]

Isn't Pete Carroll the guy that hired Waldron and then gave the Bear a glowing recommendation? There's little to question about his record as a HC but he'd be taking the job of the guy he helped get fired.

I thought this board loved a good conspiracy.

 

[abegibronreborn]

I am in favor of either guy. Sure Pete is old but he is known for his energy and enthusiasm... which makes him come off as 15+ years younger to the guys he coaches. Moreover, he is a guy that will take no BS and will weed out the system wide obstacles that continue to lead to Bears dysfunction -- same for Vrabel. In short, these 2 guys are culture changers.

With Ben Johnson, I see a good offensive coordinator but I do not see a leader of men - I do not see a culture changer. The Bears are not an X's and O's guy away from fixing this mess. Yes, we need the X's and O's too.... but we have to get a guy who will change the dysfunctional culture this is the Chicago Bears.

We need a guy who will not rollover.... a guy who will pushback against the typical McCaskey way of doing things.

Unfortunately, I believe the Bears hierarchy is more interested in a team of yes men that don't rock the boat.

They just want the money to keeping rolling in... Winning is further down the list.

 

[remydat]

lmao, winning establishes a winning culture
losing does the opposite.

So Campbell had a losing culture for the first year and a half and magically a winning culture once they started winning. Yeah that isn't how it works.

You are looking at the results and mistaking it for the cause.

 

[remydat]

Oh, I definitely agree with you there. But that’s part of my point on the culture thing. If flus didn’t hold them accountable, that’s the coaching issue not necessarily the players.

But yeah, there’s plenty of yapping and more guys need to just look in the mirror.

Agreed but the coach is who instills the culture into the team and Flus ultimately failed miserable at that.

 

[sevvy]

Hire Ben Johnson, replace 4/5 of the oline and watch a culture develop.

 

[dabears70]

So was Bellichick. So was Pete Carrol. We can all cherry pick examples to fit our narrative but it doesnt prove anything.

culture and success - Google Search

There has been enough literature on how culture influences success in virtually all fields including sports.

I get you like to troll but sometimes it is best to be smart about it.

I don't want any HC candidate that has to read an article about culture and success to come here to try to bring culture and have success. LOL

 

[remydat]

I don't want any HC candidate that has to read an article about culture and success to come here to try to bring culture and have success. LOL

No idea what you are talking about. I shared a search to make a point to @nc0gnet0. He is not a HC candidate for the Bears.

 

[dabears70]

Hire Ben Johnson, replace 4/5 of the oline and watch a culture develop.

It's going to take so much time for whatever our new OL is to gain continuity and learn how to play with the guys around him. The more we replace the worse it will get, or the harder it will be to get the OL to play well with each other. Now that shouldn't stop us from doing everything we can to replace OL wherever it needs to be replaced but i'm kinda hoping we just do RG and LG for next season and bring Shelton and Stromberg back and B.Jones and D.Wright stay at T for at least next season.

 

[dabears70]

No idea what you are talking about. I shared a search to make a point to @nc0gnet0. He is not a HC candidate for the Bears.

It was a joke hence the LOL at the end.

 

[TheEarlofRobin]

Isn't Pete Carroll the guy that hired Waldron and then gave the Bear a glowing recommendation?

I thought that was normal....give the moron a glowing recommendation to get him off your hands. That's how U of Illinois ended up with Tim Beckman.