The 2012 Chicago White Sox Roster Discussion Thread

[DewsSox79]

and serious boy as well

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I'm smart when I pick my boys.

 

[DewsSox79]

I'm smart when I pick my boys.

lucky

 

[dabynsky]

Greinke would be great. Probably the best out of all the available pitchers. Not sure how the Sox would get him or what they would have to give up though.

nate jones, mitchell, santiago....he will be a FA though

I wouldn't want to give up those guys for a pitcher who will be a FA. That's basically the future of our bullpen for a starting pitcher for the rest of the season. Not really a good trade for the future of the organization.

i agree.

Seriously if this discussion had taken place in the Cubs forum this would have gotten so many lulz and posts it isn't even funny. You seriously think that the best pitcher on the market according to this discussion is worth 2 reliever and a guy that isn't even the top 10 prospects of one of the weakest farm systems in baseball? No take that back you think that is overpaying.

 

[dabynsky]

Cafardo On Garza, Lowrie, Greinke, Red Sox, Liriano: MLB Rumors - MLBTradeRumors.com

•When teams ask about Zack Greinke's availability, they are getting "not yet" from the Brewers. However, Cafardo writes that he'll be available as soon as they get the right offer because there doesn’t seem to be any chance of Milwaukee signing him long-term.

I really doubt two relievers are what Milwaukee is looking for after they absolutely torched their farm system for the run last year and this year.

 

[DewsSox79]

Seriously if this discussion had taken place in the Cubs forum this would have gotten so many lulz and posts it isn't even funny. You seriously think that the best pitcher on the market according to this discussion is worth 2 reliever and a guy that isn't even the top 10 prospects of one of the weakest farm systems in baseball? No take that back you think that is overpaying.

FA to be, cant pitch outside milwaukee, has an anxiety disorder that affects him in the game. and sorry the cubs forum would be: coleman and ascensio for him.


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[dabynsky]

FA to be, cant pitch outside milwaukee, has an anxiety disorder that affects him in the game. and sorry the cubs forum would be: coleman and ascensio for him.


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All significant factors but relievers have little value in the game and Mitchell isn't a significant prospect. Greinke is the best pitcher on the market and you guys are seriously saying that you wouldn't get the best pitcher on the market for what amounts to table scraps on the open market.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Seriously if this discussion had taken place in the Cubs forum this would have gotten so many lulz and posts it isn't even funny. You seriously think that the best pitcher on the market according to this discussion is worth 2 reliever and a guy that isn't even the top 10 prospects of one of the weakest farm systems in baseball? No take that back you think that is overpaying.

And yet you quote me saying that I wouldn't do that trade. You think that it would be a steal for the Sox and never happen because they weren't giving up enough. But I think the Sox would give up too much.

Future of the bullpen for a FA to be that might not even change the Sox season all that much? No thanks.

Never said that Brewers would accept that offer either. If the rumors that were going on earlier this season about Rios for Lincecum are still going to happen possibly, KW should jump on that.

 

[dabynsky]

And yet you quote me saying that I wouldn't do that trade. You think that it would be a steal for the Sox and never happen because they weren't giving up enough. But I think the Sox would give up too much.

Future of the bullpen for a FA to be that might not even change the Sox season all that much? No thanks.

Never said that Brewers would accept that offer either. If the rumors that were going on earlier this season about Rios for Lincecum are still going to happen possibly, KW should jump on that.

Which is why the last sentence in the post you quoted says that you think that would be overpayment. It is pretty straightforward. The deal Dewey put forward involves three players that have very little trade value, at least not anywhere close to a top of the rotation starting pitcher value. You can argue about whether or not it is good for the team or not, but bullpen guys don't have a ton of value and Mitchell is not a big time prospect by any stretch of the imagination. This would be a terrible deal for the Brewers given what they gave up to get Greinke to begin with.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Which is why the last sentence in the post you quoted says that you think that would be overpayment. It is pretty straightforward. The deal Dewey put forward involves three players that have very little trade value, at least not anywhere close to a top of the rotation starting pitcher value. You can argue about whether or not it is good for the team or not, but bullpen guys don't have a ton of value and Mitchell is not a big time prospect by any stretch of the imagination. This would be a terrible deal for the Brewers given what they gave up to get Greinke to begin with.

I said it would be overpayment just because I wouldn't want the Sox to **** up their bullpen for years to come just to get a starter that will only be with the Sox for half a season.

 

[dabynsky]

Okay how about we try to break your offer down Dewey? Would you say that either Santiago or Jones have the same value now that Sergio Santos had at the end of last?

 

[DewsSox79]

I dunno. just know I am not going to give up a lot for any FA pitcher to be.

 

[dabynsky]

I dunno. just know I am not going to give up a lot for any FA pitcher to be.

Okay but don't tell me you wouldn't jump over anyone in the Cubs forum for making a similar proposal.

 

[DewsSox79]

Okay but don't tell me you wouldn't jump over anyone in the Cubs forum for making a similar proposal.

straws.

 

[TheChicagoFan]

Let's just say that the deal that Dewey suggested is bad for both teams.

 

[dabynsky]

straws.

Your knowledge of the game is only surpassed by your evenhandness...

 

[DewsSox79]

Your knowledge of the game is only surpassed by your evenhandness...

ok.

 

[dabynsky]

I think it's tougher for a team to let go of a good reliever than it is for a different team to want them in a trade.

But if moneyball (the book, not movie) taught me anything, it's that relievers are expendable and finding a good one isn't really tough. And they're overrated. Especially closers.

I understand why the Sox and or their fans might be hesitant to give up good young relievers. But that doesn't change the fact that relievers are worth very, very little in the trade market because of the second part of your post.

I asked Dewey this earlier and didn't get a response. This offseason the White Sox traded a closer with a ton of control left for a 3 star prospect according to Kevin Goldstein and a B+ according to John Sickels. That was the return on a closer. So clearly the return on two middle relievers would be lower, right?

Jared Mitchell rated out as a 2 star prospect by Kevin Goldstein and a C according John Sickels.

So the value of what the Sox are offering is at best two 3 star prospects (assuming that teams don't value proven closers) and one 2 star prospect. Why wouldn't a team like Baltimore offer more than that when they could easily do that? If the market isn't there because apparently no team is going to give up anything for a free agent to be why wouldn't the Brewers just hold onto Greinke and offer the qualifying offer to get a draft pick that will be a much higher prospect than anything the Sox are offering in this deal?

 

[TheChicagoFan]

I understand why the Sox and or their fans might be hesitant to give up good young relievers. But that doesn't change the fact that relievers are worth very, very little in the trade market because of the second part of your post.

I asked Dewey this earlier and didn't get a response. This offseason the White Sox traded a closer with a ton of control left for a 3 star prospect according to Kevin Goldstein and a B+ according to John Sickels. That was the return on a closer. So clearly the return on two middle relievers would be lower, right?

Jared Mitchell rated out as a 2 star prospect by Kevin Goldstein and a C according John Sickels.

So the value of what the Sox are offering is at best two 3 star prospects (assuming that teams don't value proven closers) and one 2 star prospect. Why wouldn't a team like Baltimore offer more than that when they could easily do that? If the market isn't there because apparently no team is going to give up anything for a free agent to be why wouldn't the Brewers just hold onto Greinke and offer the qualifying offer to get a draft pick that will be a much higher prospect than anything the Sox are offering in this deal?

That was my point. Teams don't want relievers because they can easily fail and they're not worth much. And teams don't want to give them up because you can't just reproduce a good bullpen easily. That's why a trade like that would never happen.

I think getting a 3 star prospect for Santos was a steal for the Sox. When someone wants your closer, you usually make that deal because look at Santos now. Closers are so expendable it's ridiculous. There are only a few exceptions (Rivera, K-rod, etc.)

 

[dabynsky]

And hence my reaction to the discussion...