The 2013 Cubs are better than we think... (FanGraphs)

[chibears55]

IMO they decided not to invest in a 3Bmen after 2011 was because they wanted to go with josh vitters who was coming off of a .283 14 81 .770 OPS season in AA.
they grabbed a ian stewart who they were hoping to be able to put up decent numbers and hold 3B until they were ready to bring up vitters who started the year in AAA.. vitters posted a .304 17 68 .869 OPS in AAA .. unfortunately his call up didnt go so well, he got 109 PA .121 2 5 .395 OPS..
and thats when the they went and got valbuena who has been decent..

vitters now after his DL return is at 70 PA .270 3 8 .787 OPS , so i think he will be up prob in the next month or so, prob. once he gets over 200 ABs

 

[Freakyslow15]

Dumb.

He asked what OFs who hit 30/100 make. I'm not dumb, YOU'RE dumb.

 

[Freakyslow15]

Had Josh Willingham had the year Soriano had before hitting free agency, I am sure that number would have at least doubled. Furthermore, the Cubs could have had Josh Willingham instead of Dejesus if they wanted, but they didn't.

Doubling Willingham's salary would still be about $4M cheaper than Soriano. I'm not saying I'm a huge Josh Willingham fan, just saying he provides the same production as Sori for less (as the poster I responded to had asked).

 

[The Bandit]

I mentioned signing Eric Chavez because he's a career .270 hitter who's a tenfold upgrade over what we had post-Aramis. This argument is simple.

You want to nitpick sample sizes? Go ahead. Hochevar's 16 innings isnt enough to me. Pujols had a bad year, but would I take his production last year on this team? **** yes. Do I think the poster Vick or whomever told me "how about that Josh Hamilton signing, he really sucks right now" is Special person basing a dumbass argument on a slow, 2 month start I could easily strawman with the annointed Anthony Rizzo back on him? Yes again.

Chavez would have given the cubs the best chance to win, best bat, and more muscle in the line up. Thats a fact. I dont give a shit about 700 AB in past 5 seasons. He's been bit by the injury bug. You dont think thats a sample size, what about his 7-8 years before those 5? Proven player bopping over 30 HR and over 100 RBI.

Funny how nobody is mentioning Chavez's current .337/.389/.567 averages this year. On pace for 20 HR, 30 doubles, and 80 RBI. For the astoundingly absurd price of 4 million dollars this year.

Instead I'm graced with Brent Lillebridge and Valbuena; whom intrigued me right away, but right now is cooling off his hot start.

Don't believe that was me but thanks for the thought.

 

[KBisBack!]

Funny how nobody is mentioning Chavez's current .337/.389/.567 averages this year. On pace for 20 HR, 30 doubles, and 80 RBI. For the astoundingly absurd price of 4 million dollars this year.

Instead I'm graced with Brent Lillebridge and Valbuena; whom intrigued me right away, but right now is cooling off his hot start.

One of the #TheoSpankfest slurps mentioned at Valbuena's peak this year how he was producing close to Chavez's level.

Not sure which one of them mentioned it cause they all blend together into a haze of ignorance for me.

Regardless, since then Chavez has been great and Valbuena has sucked, so of course the comparison hasn't been mentioned again.

 

[Willrust]

Once again, his overall production for the second half of last year puts him near the bottom of all major league 1B for that time period.

End of story. There is no argument against it. Like you said the stats are right there in your face.

As usual you want to turn it into one of your strawman semantic battles cause you can't keep up with the people who are smarter than you are.

Pointing out that Rizzo had 2 solid months of production and 1 bad month of production last year isn't a strawman argument. It is a valid point.

Only you would be dumb enough to criticize a player who finished top 5 in OPS and WAR at his position while defending moves like Ian Stewart and Chris Volstad as being good.

That is a strawman argument. Albert Pujols is one of the top 5 paid players in the game and one should expect him to perform as one of the top 5 players in the game, not one of the top 30 players in the game and top 5 at his position. And your are being asinine by stating that I ever said the Stewart or Volstad moves were good. I have consistently pointed to the fact that Ian Stewart was a backup plan to resigning Aramis Ramirez in 2011-2012 and a backup plan to signing Jeff Keppenger/Eric Chavez/Kevin Youkilis. As to Volstad, I have consistently said that he was the best the Cubs could get for Zambrano given that Zambrano was not coming back to the Cubs in 2012 and the fact that Zambrano had a no trade clause and had to approve any deal.

Great. They were talking about it, big deal.

They could have been talking about getting less money than they ended up getting and when the Angels went out and added legitimate star players, the price of the deal went WAY up.

Doesn't change the FACT that the deals for Pujols and Wilson will announced BEFORE the TV deal.

Your premise is ridiculous. A television deal worth billions would be more difficult to negotiate compared to a 250M deal with a single baseball player and would take a considerable amount of time. The framework of the deal was in place and allowed the Angels the additional funds to purchase Wilson & Pujols. You don't commit to hundreds of millions of dollars in expenditures without first securing the funds, to think otherwise is just flat out stupid.

The topic was handing 3B over to an 'unworthy' player, not what season it was.

J.F.C., NNNNNOOOO!

Pat:

And once again, we've been over this now for the millionth time; Eric Chavez at 3rd and Valbuena at 2nd. The lineup would look a little less shitty with RISP. Nick Swisher could have helped this line up, but once again, for the millionth time--adding quality hitting in free agency doesnt fit certain people's agendas.

Those statements were made about bringing in FA's.

So you are basically trying to say that it was dumb to do it in 2013 but ok to do it in 2012 simply because YOU hadn't mentioned that season??

That is the definition of strawman.

 

[KBisBack!]

You don't commit to hundreds of millions of dollars in expenditures without first securing the funds, to think otherwise is just flat out stupid.

Only Arte Moreno has consistently proven he is more concerned with winning games over making money.

Whoops.

Strawman away and continue to waste everyone's time with your ignorance.

 

[Willrust]

I mentioned signing Eric Chavez because he's a career .270 hitter who's a tenfold upgrade over what we had post-Aramis. This argument is simple.

Given that argument, Mark Prior would be a great pickup for the Cubs, right now! He has a career .592 Winning Percentage, 3.51 career ERA, over 10K/9 and over 3:1K/BB ratio. Don't like the pitcher reference, why not Scott Rolen. How about Garrett Atkins? Why don't they time travel back to 2010 and trade Ramirez and sign Adrian Beltre in the offseason? Why not go back and sign Edwin Encarnacion? It sure is fun playing the revisionist history game, isn't it. The truth is, if the Cubs had signed Eric Chavez everyone would have pissed and moaned about it the first time he gets injured..

He's been bit by the injury bug.

That's the understatement of the year.

Funny how nobody is mentioning Chavez's current .337/.389/.567 averages this year. On pace for 20 HR, 30 doubles, and 80 RBI. For the astoundingly absurd price of 4 million dollars this year.

http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif

You've tried to sell me that 16 RIGHT NOW innings is enough to make someone a damn good reliever, but Eric chavez isnt consistent enough based on the last 5 years, not what hes doing now either.

Here is the exact quote from what I originally said about Luke Hochaver:

The Royals have also had success with their youth over the past half dozen years (Salvador Perez, Lorenzo Cain, Billy Butler, Alex Gordon, Greg Holland, Aaron Crow & Luke Hochevar [as a reliever]).

Then:

And, I specifically noted that he has performed well as a reliever. In regards to him being a productive relief pitcher, does it really matter where he was drafted? Nope. At least not to me as I would much rather have a productive RP selected #1 over an ineffective SP that was selected #1 overall and refuse to do anything to actually improve his chances for success by forcing him to stay in the rotation.

And:

Doesn't overshadow shit. Just goes to prove that he has been a more valuable relief pitcher than SP. It happens.

Anywhere in there did I say he was a "damn good reliever?" Nope! I said that he has performed well as a reliever. Is it a small sample size? Yes it is. Does that change the fact that Hochaver has been a productive reliever? Nope!

 

[Willrust]

Do you even understand what a strawman argument is? Never mind, of coarse you do not as you have proven over and over again that you do not. Here is an example of a strawman argument regarding what came first, the television deal that was the precipice of being able to commit over 300M in FA signings for 2011 or the decision to sign Pujols & Wilson.

Only Arte Moreno has consistently proven he is more concerned with winning games over making money.

Arte Moreno's concern with winning games over making money has absolutely nothing to do with the previous discussion, ie it is a strawman argument.

In regards to baseball, Arte Moreno has consistently proven that he will throw money at problems. So far, that hasn't won him a championship. But to think that Mr. Moreno is only worried about winning, and isn't concerned with making money, I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet.

http://www.hark.com/clips/nxfkcybkmt-does-it-sound-like-that-when-i-say-it

 

[mountsalami]

He asked what OFs who hit 30/100 make. I'm not dumb, YOU'RE dumb.

No he didn't and why the hell would he ask you.

You obviously didn't read and comprehend what pat had originally had wrote.

Boo was kind enough to help you on the right path and you still don't get it.

Freakyslow and dumb.

:whoosh::fap:

 

[mountsalami]

And your are being asinine by stating that I ever said the Stewart or Volstad moves were good.

An absolute liar. Not to mention a racist scumbag.

 

[mountsalami]

Given that argument, Mark Prior would be a great pickup for the Cubs, right now! He has a career .592 Winning Percentage, 3.51 career ERA, over 10K/9 and over 3:1K/BB ratio. Don't like the pitcher reference, why not Scott Rolen. How about Garrett Atkins? Why don't they time travel back to 2010 and trade Ramirez and sign Adrian Beltre in the offseason? Why not go back and sign Edwin Encarnacion? It sure is fun playing the revisionist history game, isn't it. The truth is, if the Cubs had signed Eric Chavez everyone would have pissed and moaned about it the first time he gets injured..



That's the understatement of the year.



http://static.quickmeme.com/media/social/qm.gif



Here is the exact quote from what I originally said about Luke Hochaver:



Then:



And:



Anywhere in there did I say he was a "damn good reliever?" Nope! I said that he has performed well as a reliever. Is it a small sample size? Yes it is. Does that change the fact that Hochaver has been a productive reliever? Nope!

Very dumb.

 

[The Bandit]

An absolute liar. Not to mention a racist scumbag.

riveting and completely on topic.

Very dumb.

Lot's of worth in these posts.

 

[Boobaby1]

Doubling Willingham's salary would still be about $4M cheaper than Soriano. I'm not saying I'm a huge Josh Willingham fan, just saying he provides the same production as Sori for less (as the poster I responded to had asked).

I don't have to be a fan of anybody if they are a good player. I am concerned about the Cubs winning and what I am saying is that it would be better in the line-up to have Soriano and Willingham in it, than Soriano and Dejesus. How much better is irrelevant. The whole idea is to always get better at every position and I am not saying it has to be done in the same year either.

Not saying it is you that said this, but Eric Chavez is no more of a risk than the signing of Stewart was, nor the signing of Baker for that matter. I will gladly take a risk of getting over 100 plus games out of Chavez at 3 million per, versus Baker and Stewart who have yet to play a single game for the Cubs for 7.5 million. Hell they could have taken a risk on Baker and Chavez this year and not felt a pinch in the wallet at all.

 

[mountsalami]

riveting and completely on topic.


Lot's of worth in these posts.

Let me know when I've reached the 1200 mark.

 

[The Bandit]

Let me know when I've reached the 1200 mark.

of worthlessness? sure thing.

 

[patg006]

Given that argument, Mark Prior would be a great pickup for the Cubs, right now! He has a career .592 Winning Percentage, 3.51 career ERA, over 10K/9 and over 3:1K/BB ratio. Don't like the pitcher reference, why not Scott Rolen. How about Garrett Atkins? Why don't they time travel back to 2010 and trade Ramirez and sign Adrian Beltre in the offseason? Why not go back and sign Edwin Encarnacion? It sure is fun playing the revisionist history game, isn't it. The truth is, if the Cubs had signed Eric Chavez everyone would have pissed and moaned about it the first time he gets injured..

Strawman logic. You look like a fool when your rebuttal starts with "well by that logic." The topic of discussion is Eric Chavez, not Mark Prior. Mark Prior didnt show last year he was still a good pitcher with something left in the tank like Chavez a good hitter.

I would have taken Scott Rolen at 3rd at the beginning of this year. Anyone pick him up? Funny how in 2010 Aramis still had over 500 ABs, 25 HR, and over 80 RBIs during his injured year.

Every other suggestion you have is dumb, and you're playing off strawmanning examples once again that bend and flex to your parameters of consistency. I wont do that shit to you, I hate it, you'd hate it. You know thats not whats being discussed. Stay on topic.

Here is the exact quote from what I originally said about Luke Hochaver:

Anywhere in there did I say he was a "damn good reliever?" Nope! I said that he has performed well as a reliever. Is it a small sample size? Yes it is. Does that change the fact that Hochaver has been a productive reliever? Nope!

Semantics police. "Just goes to prove that he has been a more valuable relief pitcher than SP. It happens."

He has been a productive reliever, in 17.1 innings, I cant contest that, but I can find you 17.1 innings where Carlos Marmol was an effective, not shitty pitcher. The sample size, to me is too small before I call him a success in the bullpen like you did. I'm fine agreeing to disagree on that. I would just enjoy the ride if I were a Royals fan and hope he continues pitching that way.

 

[KBisBack!]

But to think that Mr. Moreno is only worried about winning, and isn't concerned with making money, I'll believe that when me shit turns purple and smells like rainbow sherbet.

Typical willrust BS at it's finest.

I never said Moreno was ONLY interested in winning. I did say he was MORE interested in winning, but that didn't fit your agenda so as usual you blatantly lie about what was said.

The Forbes Business of Baseball reports show that in half of the last ten seasons the Angels have a negative operating income.

Now start whining about how dumb the people at Forbes are at business and how about you are much smarter than they are as usual.

 

[Freakyslow15]

No he didn't and why the hell would he ask you.

You obviously didn't read and comprehend what pat had originally had wrote.

Boo was kind enough to help you on the right path and you still don't get it.

Freakyslow and dumb.

:whoosh::fap:

It seemed to me he is saying Soriano's contract isn't ridiculous (it is) and is claiming 30-year old outfielders with 30/100 numbers all make Soriano money.

Going back, i see he was referring to Sori in '06 when the Cubs signed him. and yes i think it was a ridiculous contract then too. At the time it was the fifth largest deal ever. for alphonso soriano, for 8 years. He's averaged sucky numbers for that money.

And this is an open forum, anyone can comment. And why the hell are you speaking for him anyway?

Go mount more salami.

 

[Freakyslow15]

I mentioned signing Eric Chavez because he's a career .270 hitter who's a tenfold upgrade over what we had post-Aramis. This argument is simple.

Chavez would have given the cubs the best chance to win, best bat, and more muscle in the line up. Thats a fact. I dont give a shit about 700 AB in past 5 seasons. He's been bit by the injury bug. You dont think thats a sample size, what about his 7-8 years before those 5? Proven player bopping over 30 HR and over 100 RBI.

Funny how nobody is mentioning Chavez's current .337/.389/.567 averages this year. On pace for 20 HR, 30 doubles, and 80 RBI. For the astoundingly absurd price of 4 million dollars this year.

Funny how Chavez is on the DL already.