The Bulls Injury Report (Rose Update: He's back)

[Bear Pride]

You guys joke about curses and such, but when do we start to look at Thib's? I know you guys will defend Thib's at all costs, I used to be like that too. However, how many years must we endure with the same result? Remember the boy that cried wolf?

The bottom line is Jimmy has played a lot of minutes and now he's banged up going into a playoff run. You can rebut the minutes issue, you can rebut the injuries are not Thib's fault, but it's hard to rebut the same results.

The Bulls started this season with arguably the deepest roster in the NBA. Now, it looks like we'll be, once again, limping into the playoffs. I used to stick up for Thib's about anything.

The problem is that I'm tired of seeing the same result at the end of the year. Thib's has showed through his body of work, that he can't manage a team well enough to keep them healthy and on a roll going into the playoffs. The proof is in the pudding!

Unfortunately, and the final straw for me, he hasn't showed that he can play the right players in the lineup to maximize the players, which is a trait of good coaches.

 

[Scoot26]

Thibs did not cause Butler's injury.

Thibs did not cause Rose's injury.

Thibs did not cause Gibson's injury.

Thibs did not get Paul Gasol sick.

Just stop.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Thibs did not cause Butler's injury.

Thibs did not cause Rose's injury.

Thibs did not cause Gibson's injury.

Thibs did not get Paul Gasol sick.

Just stop.

This.

You may argue that Thibs ran Deng into the ground and that Rose may have never torn his ACL in game 1 of the 2011 playoffs were it not for Thibs though.

 

[Scoot26]

This.

You may argue that Thibs ran Deng into the ground and that Rose may have never torn his ACL in game 1 of the 2011 playoffs were it not for Thibs though.

That I can agree with. Deng should have had minute reductions with his wrist injury and never did.

Rose was in late in Game 1 of the 2012** playoffs...And tore his ACL... I have a feeling Rose would have torn that ACL eventually anyways given his lingering injuries making him put a lot of pressure on that knee joint.

 

[clonetrooper264]

That I can agree with. Deng should have had minute reductions with his wrist injury and never did.

Rose was in late in Game 1 of the 2012** playoffs...And tore his ACL... I have a feeling Rose would have torn that ACL eventually anyways given his lingering injuries making him put a lot of pressure on that knee joint.

Goodness I never get the playoff years right. 2011-2012 season...that's what I mean...obviously.

Yes Rose most likely would've torn his ACL regardless, but he might've lasted a couple more games :elephant:

 

[Scoot26]

Goodness I never get the playoff years right. 2011-2012 season...that's what I mean...obviously.

Yes Rose most likely would've torn his ACL regardless, but he might've lasted a couple more games :elephant:

Yeah.. we'll never really know. The timing was probably horrible for Thib's reputation though. We joked throughout the whole year that starters were always kept in too long.

 

[clonetrooper264]

Yeah.. we'll never really know. The timing was probably horrible for Thib's reputation though. We joked throughout the whole year that starters were always kept in too long.

I think that idea has been proven true though. Thibs doesn't really know when to pull his starters. Idk if he's just uber paranoid that the bench will give up the lead (again...since it's happened before) or what. Whether the injury was avoidable or not, there's really no need for starters to be playing in the 4th when we're up 20 with 5 minutes to go or whatever.

 

[Bear Pride]

Yeah.. we'll never really know. The timing was probably horrible for Thib's reputation though. We joked throughout the whole year that starters were always kept in too long.

The timing? We joked? No, you joked, I've been concerned about it for a while now. Keep on keepin on man. We'll revisit this later. But I wonder how many CEO's out there in the Business World will keep giving the same people the job ,that year after year, have the same negative results? Not the successful companies, I'll tell you that.

Sometimes a change is in order, for whatever reason. I'm not a Thib's hater, but injuries will be his downfall, whether you agree or not. Sticking with the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insane, as I'm sure you've heard before.

Then Thib's says stupid shit like this:

Then he adds this about the Clippers game:

Then he's got the balls to say this?

Then why not play Dunn or McD, or is your excuse that they are injured? :dunno:

 

[Scoot26]

The timing? We joked? No, you joked, I've been concerned about it for a while now. Keep on keepin on man. We'll revisit this later. But I wonder how many CEO's out there in the Business World will keep giving the same people the job ,that year after year, have the same negative results? Not the successful companies, I'll tell you that.

Sometimes a change is in order, for whatever reason. I'm not a Thib's hater, but injuries will be his downfall, whether you agree or not. Sticking with the same thing and expecting different results is the definition of insane, as I'm sure you've heard before.

Then Thib's says stupid shit like this:

Then he adds this about the Clippers game:

Then he's got the balls to say this?

Then why not play Dunn or McD, or is your excuse that they are injured? :dunno:

You're acting like Thibs is playing his guys through ACL tears, broken bones, and beheaded heads or something.

Guys play with lingering little injuries all the time, in the entire NBA. Most coaches don't go 12 man deep in a roster either.

Now with Butler out, I do think McD should play and get some playing time, it just won't surprise me if he still doesn't because McD fucking sucks at defense. And Thibs loves defense more than anything else in the world.

And Dunleavy played awful in 30 minutes yesterday... And when 1/8 guys is scoring for your team in the 4th quarter, I don't think McDermott is going to come to the rescue to win the game against the Clippers. The Clippers would just annihilate him defensively (You don't think they would have forced the pick and roll using him so he's force to guard Chris Paul who would take him to school and back again), so you're back at square one as far as trying to come back in that game.

 

[Bear Pride]

You're acting like Thibs is playing his guys through ACL tears, broken bones, and beheaded heads or something.

Guys play with lingering little injuries all the time, in the entire NBA. Most coaches don't go 12 man deep in a roster either.

Now with Butler out, I do think McD should play and get some playing time, it just won't surprise me if he still doesn't because McD fucking sucks at defense. And Thibs loves defense more than anything else in the world.

And Dunleavy played awful in 30 minutes yesterday... And when 1/8 guys is scoring for your team in the 4th quarter, I don't think McDermott is going to come to the rescue to win the game against the Clippers. The Clippers would just annihilate him defensively (You don't think they would have forced the pick and roll using him so he's force to guard Chris Paul who would take him to school and back again), so you're back at square one as far as trying to come back in that game.

1st bolded point - McD sucks at defense? I just don't see that compared to what I was seeing from Kirk. Thib's loves defense? Guess what? Thib's now has an offensive roster! Especially with his two best defenders out in Taj and Butler. It's this very inability of Thib's to adapt that I have a problem with!

2nd bolded point - You don't THINK McD was going to come in and help? You don't think? Guess what? We won't EVER know unless he actually tries it, right? The Bulls, as you point out, had ONE player that could actually make a FG in the 4th quarter against the Clippers.

Thib's said himself that Kirk was struggling with an injury. He hasn't played well when he was healthy. He was 0-7 from two, and 0-3 from three. He's got one of the lowest 'per's' in the NBA. So I've got one question........ is he the best option to, as Thib's said himself (see tweet above), to try to find a way to try to win the game???

I've got an idea...... why not try to play the Bulls #1 draft pick this year (10th), who coincidentally happened to be be the MOST successful scorer in College last year? It couldn't be any worse than Kirk, right?

3rd bolded point - Paul was abusing whoever was on him. That's what he does. But the Bulls bigs were not stepping up on him, cuz on the switch, the clippers had a big mismatch. If Pau stepped up, we'd get killed on the boards with the clippers bigs on the switch.

McD would have, at least, given us a 1/2 foot more length to either check the big on the switch, or help on the boards when Pau steps up. Instead, we gave Paul wide open shots, and guarded their bigs with 5'10" guys.

Furthermore, on offense, if you were watching, you would have seen Kirk just hang on the 3 pt line standing around being NO THREAT at all to hit an outside shot. This is the main area that McD could have helped. Not only is McD capable of hitting the 3, if he does, he instantly spreads the floor for the Bulls.

This is advantage enough to be the better option than what Kirk was bringing to the table. And to add insult to injury (no pun intended), when he did take Kirk out, his answer was to bring in Pau against the Clippers 'small ball' lineup.

And if you've ever noticed, Thib's NEVER takes responsibility for ANYTHING! I've never heard Thib's say that it was on him, and he could have done things differently. Maybe tried this or tried that. Instead, it's "we've got to find a way", or "we need more energy", or even "Kirk and Pau are giving everything they got".

How about saying "I got outcoached and I sucked this game"? :dunno:

 

[knoxville7]

1st bolded point - McD sucks at defense? I just don't see that compared to what I was seeing from Kirk. Thib's loves defense? Guess what? Thib's now has an offensive roster! Especially with his two best defenders out in Taj and Butler. It's this very inability of Thib's to adapt that I have a problem with!

2nd bolded point - You don't THINK McD was going to come in and help? You don't think? Guess what? We won't EVER know unless he actually tries it, right? The Bulls, as you point out, had ONE player that could actually make a FG in the 4th quarter against the Clippers.

Thib's said himself that Kirk was struggling with an injury. He hasn't played well when he was healthy. He was 0-7 from two, and 0-3 from three. He's got one of the lowest 'per's' in the NBA. So I've got one question........ is he the best option to, as Thib's said himself (see tweet above), to try to find a way to try to win the game???

I've got an idea...... why not try to play the Bulls #1 draft pick this year (10th), who coincidentally happened to be be the MOST successful scorer in College last year? It couldn't be any worse than Kirk, right?

3rd bolded point - Paul was abusing whoever was on him. That's what he does. But the Bulls bigs were not stepping up on him, cuz on the switch, the clippers had a big mismatch. If Pau stepped up, we'd get killed on the boards with the clippers bigs on the switch.

McD would have, at least, given us a 1/2 foot more length to either check the big on the switch, or help on the boards when Pau steps up. Instead, we gave Paul wide open shots, and guarded their bigs with 5'10" guys.

Furthermore, on offense, if you were watching, you would have seen Kirk just hang on the 3 pt line standing around being NO THREAT at all to hit an outside shot. This is the main area that McD could have helped. Not only is McD capable of hitting the 3, if he does, he instantly spreads the floor for the Bulls.

This is advantage enough to be the better option than what Kirk was bringing to the table. And to add insult to injury (no pun intended), when he did take Kirk out, his answer was to bring in Pau against the Clippers 'small ball' lineup.

And if you've ever noticed, Thib's NEVER takes responsibility for ANYTHING! I've never heard Thib's say that it was on him, and he could have done things differently. Maybe tried this or tried that. Instead, it's "we've got to find a way", or "we need more energy", or even "Kirk and Pau are giving everything they got".

How about saying "I got outcoached and I sucked this game"? :dunno:

and he says im the one that acts like im the "know it all" :rolling:

 

[Bear Pride]

and he says im the one that acts like im the "know it all" :rolling:

Oh look, another guy gonna follow me around........ I wasn't even talking to you, and I was responding to what he said to me. How is that anything like predicting the future?

 

[Scoot26]

1st bolded point - McD sucks at defense? I just don't see that compared to what I was seeing from Kirk. Thib's loves defense? Guess what? Thib's now has an offensive roster! Especially with his two best defenders out in Taj and Butler. It's this very inability of Thib's to adapt that I have a problem with!

2nd bolded point - You don't THINK McD was going to come in and help? You don't think? Guess what? We won't EVER know unless he actually tries it, right? The Bulls, as you point out, had ONE player that could actually make a FG in the 4th quarter against the Clippers.

Thib's said himself that Kirk was struggling with an injury. He hasn't played well when he was healthy. He was 0-7 from two, and 0-3 from three. He's got one of the lowest 'per's' in the NBA. So I've got one question........ is he the best option to, as Thib's said himself (see tweet above), to try to find a way to try to win the game???

I've got an idea...... why not try to play the Bulls #1 draft pick this year (10th), who coincidentally happened to be be the MOST successful scorer in College last year? It couldn't be any worse than Kirk, right?

3rd bolded point - Paul was abusing whoever was on him. That's what he does. But the Bulls bigs were not stepping up on him, cuz on the switch, the clippers had a big mismatch. If Pau stepped up, we'd get killed on the boards with the clippers bigs on the switch.

McD would have, at least, given us a 1/2 foot more length to either check the big on the switch, or help on the boards when Pau steps up. Instead, we gave Paul wide open shots, and guarded their bigs with 5'10" guys.

Furthermore, on offense, if you were watching, you would have seen Kirk just hang on the 3 pt line standing around being NO THREAT at all to hit an outside shot. This is the main area that McD could have helped. Not only is McD capable of hitting the 3, if he does, he instantly spreads the floor for the Bulls.

This is advantage enough to be the better option than what Kirk was bringing to the table. And to add insult to injury (no pun intended), when he did take Kirk out, his answer was to bring in Pau against the Clippers 'small ball' lineup.

And if you've ever noticed, Thib's NEVER takes responsibility for ANYTHING! I've never heard Thib's say that it was on him, and he could have done things differently. Maybe tried this or tried that. Instead, it's "we've got to find a way", or "we need more energy", or even "Kirk and Pau are giving everything they got".

How about saying "I got outcoached and I sucked this game"? :dunno:

Yes, Thibs is stubborn. I think we can agree on that. If we want to talk about lineup mismanagement, we can agree on that too. But him causing injuries to players, I don't agree with. Like I said, do I think McDermott should get playing time? Yes, but Thibs probably won't because he can't stand guys that get destroyed on defense.

 

[Bear Pride]

Yes, Thibs is stubborn. I think we can agree on that. If we want to talk about lineup mismanagement, we can agree on that too. But him causing injuries to players, I don't agree with. Like I said, do I think McDermott should get playing time? Yes, but Thibs probably won't because he can't stand guys that get destroyed on defense.

Well, I disagree that McD will get destroyed on defense. I don't see it. I think with some playing time, he will be better than people are giving him credit for, but that's my opinion, and I can't wait to see him actually play.

As far as blaming Thib's for injuries, my whole stance has not really been blaming him for injuries, but that being injured every year, does make one wonder. The Bulls have been injured for most every year he's been here.

That should make most GM's wonder if something different might help, or prevent injuries. it's logical to me that if something is not working, then try something different. But to not try something different, and get the same results, is not logical.

3 things that Thib's can do to try something different is 1) play the rookies more and spread the minutes out., 2) don't play players when they are injured when you have healthy players on the bench, 3) take out the starters when you're blowing out a team.

I used thes three examples cuz they are ones that we've discussed. This can also include others like more days off, lighter practices, veteran days off, etc. These are things that other coaches do.

Look at the Cavs, they sat LJ and Kyrie the other day to get rest, and they lost. Now the media is reporting that the Cavs are looking to rest LJ more. Regular season games don't matter. Thib's hasn't yet concluded this, imo.

The bottom line is limping into the playoffs again, is not the result we're looking for. Whether Thib's is at fault or not directly, the end result is the same so far. Sometimes, a change is good for no other reason.

Hopefully, we go into the post season on a roll, however, right now, it looks like we're heading for the same 'ol thing. :dunno:

 

[Scoot26]

Well, I disagree that McD will get destroyed on defense. I don't see it. I think with some playing time, he will be better than people are giving him credit for, but that's my opinion, and I can't wait to see him actually play.

Again, I want him to play, but I also believe that is Thibs belief.. Doug isn't ready to play NBA basketball. I'm just playing off Thibs, not my own personal beliefs. Goes along with my realism I guess.

As far as blaming Thib's for injuries, my whole stance has not really been blaming him for injuries, but that being injured every year, does make one wonder. The Bulls have been injured for most every year he's been here.

That should make most GM's wonder if something different might help, or prevent injuries. it's logical to me that if something is not working, then try something different. But to not try something different, and get the same results, is not logical.

Yes, we often think that and since we always want someone to blame for things going wrong, we look at Thibs, the things he does, and then go well he's doing this wrong so it must be why player X got hurt. But in most cases this isn't so.

3 things that Thib's can do to try something different is 1) play the rookies more and spread the minutes out., 2) don't play players when they are injured when you have healthy players on the bench, 3) take out the starters when you're blowing out a team.

I used thes three examples cuz they are ones that we've discussed. This can also include others like more days off, lighter practices, veteran days off, etc. These are things that other coaches do.

Look at the Cavs, they sat LJ and Kyrie the other day to get rest, and they lost. Now the media is reporting that the Cavs are looking to rest LJ more. Regular season games don't matter. Thib's hasn't yet concluded this, imo.

The bottom line is limping into the playoffs again, is not the result we're looking for. Whether Thib's is at fault or not directly, the end result is the same so far. Sometimes, a change is good for no other reason.

Hopefully, we go into the post season on a roll, however, right now, it looks like we're heading for the same 'ol thing. :dunno:

Thibs is stubborn. He's also old school, and his life revolves entirely around basketball. He overstudies everything and is convinced in his mind that playing great defense is the key to winning (And he's not wrong, but its more than just great defense). His other problem is probably his pride. If he could, he would go 82-0 as he seemingly treats every game like its Game 7 of the playoffs, while most coaches in the league are coming around to the idea of taking time off, resting guys and such... And the league endorses it because in many cases fans still go to the games anyways, whereas maybe in the past, the league would squash such an idea as if your best players aren't playing, why would anyways want to watch that?

And for the record, Irving is actually injured.. He's missed two games.. LeBron more so just wanted some rest and LeBron will probably be doing more and more of that as the years go on... and it'll probably come to bit him in the ass actually such as it did Wade last year.

Regular season games somewhat matter, but you're right, there's no reason to shoot for 72-10 in this NBA. We've had a ton of 50 win teams win the championships over the past decade (though the past two years, 60+ win teams have won).

 

[clonetrooper264]

Well, I disagree that McD will get destroyed on defense. I don't see it. I think with some playing time, he will be better than people are giving him credit for, but that's my opinion, and I can't wait to see him actually play.

Eh idk...McDermott is not really that quick and SFs are some of the most athletic players in the league. That really does not play into his advantage of not getting destroyed. It's entirely possible that he won't get destroyed all the time, but I don't think he'll ever not be a liability. Whoever he guards has to be a shooter if he's guarding a perimeter guy imo. I think he'd do better defending against guys who would try to post him up, but most SFs would just try to take him off the dribble if they could.

So yeah we won't know until we see it, but from what we did see in preseason and such, he had his difficulties. Plus he's still a rookie so it's pretty safe to say he'll get burned a fair number of times, even if he was getting consistent minutes.

3 things that Thib's can do to try something different is 1) play the rookies more and spread the minutes out., 2) don't play players when they are injured when you have healthy players on the bench, 3) take out the starters when you're blowing out a team.

I used thes three examples cuz they are ones that we've discussed. This can also include others like more days off, lighter practices, veteran days off, etc. These are things that other coaches do.

FWIW, Thibs has played Mirotic every game thus far and he played Asik consistent minutes his rookie year too. Imo the guys who didn't get as many minutes as rookies just weren't as ready as those guys.

2010-2011: Asik - played regularly
2011-2012: Butler - played sparingly, eventually turned into an All Star under Thibs
2012-2013: Teague - he just kinda sucked
2013-2014: Snell - played sparing, but now seems to be developing into a decent rotation player. Murphy...sucked.
2014-2015: McDermott - hardly playing, but could turn out to be a good player down the line, who knows? Mirotic - already a solid rotation player. Bairstow - meh.

Imo the Thibs not playing rookies thing may be a little exaggerated as if the rookie was good, he played them and if they weren't good their first year, they tended to develop later. McDermott could very well be in that second category for all we know. Even Teague got a little bit better lol...

That said, yes he can do a better job of spreading the minutes out. We'll be screaming for this when Snell is playing 40 minutes and looking dead during this next stretch. As for 3...we all know he sucks at this.

To his credit though, in the year we went to the ECF, we saw Thibs give guys days off before the playoffs (Deng and Korver I think) and played the starters a little less (not sure though, would have to look it up) going into the playoffs. In recent years we haven't seen much of this because we were always "fighting for seeding" or some junk like that. We as fans dismiss that as useless, but we see lots of teams do that who aren't in the top 3 seeds. I also think Thibs does give the team days off of practice. We've heard several times of practice just being a video session or similar. I don't think guys are being driven to the ground in practice at all.

 

[Scoot26]

Eh idk...McDermott is not really that quick and SFs are some of the most athletic players in the league. That really does not play into his advantage of not getting destroyed. It's entirely possible that he won't get destroyed all the time, but I don't think he'll ever not be a liability. Whoever he guards has to be a shooter if he's guarding a perimeter guy imo. I think he'd do better defending against guys who would try to post him up, but most SFs would just try to take him off the dribble if they could.

So yeah we won't know until we see it, but from what we did see in preseason and such, he had his difficulties. Plus he's still a rookie so it's pretty safe to say he'll get burned a fair number of times, even if he was getting consistent minutes.


FWIW, Thibs has played Mirotic every game thus far and he played Asik consistent minutes his rookie year too. Imo the guys who didn't get as many minutes as rookies just weren't as ready as those guys.

2010-2011: Asik - played regularly
2011-2012: Butler - played sparingly, eventually turned into an All Star under Thibs
2012-2013: Teague - he just kinda sucked
2013-2014: Snell - played sparing, but now seems to be developing into a decent rotation player. Murphy...sucked.
2014-2015: McDermott - hardly playing, but could turn out to be a good player down the line, who knows? Mirotic - already a solid rotation player. Bairstow - meh.

Imo the Thibs not playing rookies thing may be a little exaggerated as if the rookie was good, he played them and if they weren't good their first year, they tended to develop later. McDermott could very well be in that second category for all we know. Even Teague got a little bit better lol...

That said, yes he can do a better job of spreading the minutes out. We'll be screaming for this when Snell is playing 40 minutes and looking dead during this next stretch. As for 3...we all know he sucks at this.

To his credit though, in the year we went to the ECF, we saw Thibs give guys days off before the playoffs (Deng and Korver I think) and played the starters a little less (not sure though, would have to look it up) going into the playoffs. In recent years we haven't seen much of this because we were always "fighting for seeding" or some junk like that. We as fans dismiss that as useless, but we see lots of teams do that who aren't in the top 3 seeds. I also think Thibs does give the team days off of practice. We've heard several times of practice just being a video session or similar. I don't think guys are being driven to the ground in practice at all.

With Asik and Mirotic, they were older and had professional experience. So you can make that a reason as to why Thibs plays them more.

Butler only got playing time in 2011-12 due to injuries, which was often that season.

Teague also only got playing time due to injuries, and he sucked ass when he did get playing time.

Snell was much like Butler, but to a lesser extent (injuries were less a happening less season).

As to your last part... I remember in the media Thibs stating he was confused on how to use the team because he was unable to settle on a 8 man rotation for the playoffs and ended up using a 10 man rotation in those playoffs.. The bench mob... Since the bench mob died, he went to the standard 8 man rotation.

 

[clonetrooper264]

With Asik and Mirotic, they were older and had professional experience. So you can make that a reason as to why Thibs plays them more.

Butler only got playing time in 2011-12 due to injuries, which was often that season.

Teague also only got playing time due to injuries, and he sucked ass when he did get playing time.

Snell was much like Butler, but to a lesser extent (injuries were less a happening less season).

As to your last part... I remember in the media Thibs stating he was confused on how to use the team because he was unable to settle on a 8 man rotation for the playoffs and ended up using a 10 man rotation in those playoffs.. The bench mob... Since the bench mob died, he went to the standard 8 man rotation.

I personally see no problems using a 10 man rotation if those 10 players are all quality players. In the case of the bench mob, that was true. He hasn't really had that kind of quality since then until arguably this season.

 

[Scoot26]

I personally see no problems using a 10 man rotation if those 10 players are all quality players. In the case of the bench mob, that was true. He hasn't really had that kind of quality since then until arguably this season.

Agreed... His players are always injured anyways.

 

[RC_Skinny22]

Honestly I would like to see him mix and match the starters with the bench guys more.

I'm not a big fan of the 5 in & 5 out changes.