The Burqa and France

[TSD]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I only believe in one God so I'm not afraid of choosing the wrong one. I don't believe there's a one true religion since all pretty much seem to worship a higher power that loves and forgives. You should come back to the Catholic faith - you are always welcome.[/quote]



I am incapable of believing extraordinary things without extraordinary evidence. Therefore that is not possible.



You're belief is irrelevant to my previous statement. i have no doubt you believe what you believe, I was merely pointing out there are many others that believe as strongly as you about some other religion and think you are the one who is wrong.



If God does exist, yet there is no "relgion" and this God loves and forgives, then I have nothing to fear in what I believe or dont believe in this case. Banishing someone to hell for not believing you, when lets be honest here, the evidence isn't in your favor, is rather mean an arrogant, and not very loving and forgiving.



Thats a primary cause for question for me with religion, the belief in the God seems more important than the actions of the individual, and frankly thats just stupid. If for example a mother theresa type, who was an atheist got sent to hell, not for her deeds, but for the mere fact she didn't believe God existed is a travesty to the universe, and I personally would gladly get raked over hot coals for an eternity, spitting skyward on my shit tard creator for such a trivial matter.

 

[bri]

[quote name="Mikita's Helmet"]



There's a zipper for the mouth and nostril holes to breathe. [/quote]





It doesn't matter. There is no way I would ever wear it. A man would have to beat me senseless in order to get me to do it. There is nothing wrong with the way I dress now. It's not like I go around displayin' the goods or anything. I could never put up with a man trying to oppress me and if he even tried he sure as hell wouldn't be getting any.



I was really upset when I watched one of the episodes of Carrier in PBS about the Nimetz. It showed the sailors getting ready to go ashore somewhere over in the Persian Gulf area. Some of the female sailors were told they had to change clothes because their arms were exposed or they had shorts on. The men, however, were allowed to wear shorts or anything they wanted. It is bullshit that female sailors were held to a different standard.

 

[mikita's helmet]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I only believe in one God so I'm not afraid of choosing the wrong one. I don't believe there's a one true religion since all pretty much seem to worship a higher power that loves and forgives. You should come back to the Catholic faith - you are always welcome.[/quote]



Can't speak for TSD, but no thanks, in my case.

 

[LordKOTL]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

I look at it this way. I'd rather believe in God and be wrong when I die (in that case I'll never know it cause I'll just be six feet under) than not believe and be wrong when I die. Take a chance and believe in God. There is only an upside.[/quote]

Ah, Pascal's Wager...a common tool used by Christians to convert the heathens to their religion by saying there's nothing to lose by beliving in God.



And here's why it's more wrong than a Goatse.CX goalie mask.



It bases the assumption that God is the only divine being capable of paradise/damnation judgement. Thus, if there is no God, we're all worms' meat (okay, bactieria technically, but it's less poetic tht way), and if there is, if you believe you get paradise and if you don't you get damnation. So, if you believe in God, you have a 50-50 shot for a favorable (God exists) outcome to an indifferent (God Doesn't) one.



Now, for the sake of keeping this topical, throw in Islam. Now this is where it gets shakey for those that hold onto Pascal's Wager. You belive in God, Allah, or Nothing. If nothing is right, everyone's still worms' meat. You believe in God, you get Christian paradise, and if not you go to Christian Damnation. Same case for believe in Allah.



So, now, if you believe in God, the odds go down to 33% for Favorable (God Exists), 33% for indifferent (God Doesn't) and 33% unfavorable (Allah Exists and damns you for disbelif).



Now, throw in another religion (say Buddhism), and the odds diminish to 25% favorable (God exists) 25% indifferent (God Doesn't), and 50% unfavorable (Allah Damns you or you're reincarnated as a pubic louse feeding off of spent semen in the soiled stall of a Vegas peep show).



Now, the tricky thing is, it doesn't matter what you believe--the odds are the same for Christianity, judaism, Islam, Buddhism, Zoroastrianism, whatever.



And finally, think of every religion that not only has been conceived, but could be conceived. You're looking at a nigh-infinitessimal chance you're right, and a nigh-inifinte chance you're wrong, unfavorably, with the still nightinfinitessimal chance you're going to end up as fodder for the worms.



I don't see that as nothing to lose, I see that as pick your poision and take your chance--you might be screwed no matter what.

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="winos5"]Getting back to the Burqa ban.... I think the security issues are perhaps overstated. I've personally seen the spouses of foreign military in full Burqa on US military installations and it was never an issue.



I can understand asking them to remove it briefly (privacy/modesty taken into consideration if need be) to verify ID, or during an exam at the hospital ect...



If individual women choose to wear it and can't bear to remove it while attending schools/other functions that require it be removed I think the burden falls on the individual to make other accomadations, not said institution( ie if you won't remove your burqa at public school, look for alternatives like home school, a privaste islamic school that allows it ect...).[/quote]

I have yet to see a woman in full Burqa on any US military installation, as it is a requirement to verify ID to face to get onboard. I have seen them in Hijab but never full burqa.

 

[winos5]

I've seen it on several occassions at Air Force training bases.



I'm not saying they weren't required to briefly remove it to verify military ID/gain entrance to the base. In almost every case the foreign national was from Saudi Arabia or Kuwaitt.



The definition of burqa I'm familiar with is covering all the exposed a skin save the hands and a small area of the face around the eyes, not necassarilly with a complete face veil.



Of course this is the same Air Force that now has Wiccan Chaplains and a Pagan worship circle at the Air force Academy....

 

[bubbleheadchief]

[quote name="winos5"]I've seen it on several occassions at Lackland AFB. I'm not saying they weren't required to briefly remove it to verify military ID/gain entrance to the base. In almost every case the foreign national from Saudi Arabia or Kuwaitt.



The definition of burqa I'm familiar with is covering all the exposed a skin save the hands and a small area of the face around the eyes, not necassarilly with a complete face veil.[/quote]Yeah that is a full burqa......hijab is almost the same as a burka, but leaves the face exposed. It's been 10 yrs + since I have been on Lackland, but still never saw it, and thats when things were "relatively" peaceful. Not saying it hasnt, just never witnessed it myself. But we are also trying to compare US laws and regs to something going down in Europe, so I think we are derailing a little.

 

[ginnie]

[quote name="Kerfuffle"]

1) Is the bible true to the word of God? Yes - I'll agree with that especially the gospels and word of Christ in the bible. Do I agree with everything in the bible? No - of course not. The old testament has some pretty outdated and sexist readings for scholars (not god) that I don't like. When my wife and I had to pick an old testament verse for our wedding it was difficult to find anything that wasn't offensive.

2) Is the Quaran true to the word of God? Don't know as I've never read it - and I know you haven't either.[/quote]



Hey, these are trick questions...

Is the Bible true? There may be some parts that are historically true, I guess. But overall, I don't believe it is and doubt that anyone can prove that it is.

I've read the Quaran, albeit in English of course, and found it more simplistic than the Bible. (Supposedly, if you don't read that book in Arabic, you don't get the full message). Of course, I don't believe its true either.

 

[mikita's helmet]

[quote name="ginnie"]



Hey, these are trick questions...

Is the Bible true? There may be some parts that are historically true, I guess. But overall, I don't believe it is and doubt that anyone can prove that it is.

I've read the Quaran, albeit in English of course, and found it more simplistic than the Bible. (Supposedly, if you don't read that book in Arabic, you don't get the full message). Of course, I don't believe its true either.[/quote]



They were both written by men and all the foibles and follies men are prone to.