The official around the MLB thread!

[Parade_Rain]

Nationals hire Mike Maddux as pitching coach. Now that's a great get.

Yes. Solid get. Perhaps he is already a manager in waiting for when the Nationals realize the guy they just hired can't bring home the ring.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Way to use non objective measures. Not shocked at all.

Analyzing hirings and what is "great" requires more than just objective measures. If objective measures were all that mattered to managing, Baker would still be the skipper in San Fran.

 

[Boobaby1]

What is fact is that Piniella and Leyland have won WS. That is not opinion. That's a FACT. You are making excuses why one manager has a WS ring and the one you think is "great" doesn't. FACT. Bochy won multiple titles in the same large market in which Baker could not. FACT.

Wrong! Find where I said he was a "great" manager?

I said he was a good fit for Washington given their window, and that he has won wherever he has managed. FACT.

I guess by your theory, Baker won postseason games in Chicago whereas Piniella didn't, making Dusty the better manager. Ozzie Guillen won a WS making him better than Maddon, and Maddon went to a WS with Tampa and Piniella never sniffed a .500 record there.

Is that how this all works?

 

[Parade_Rain]

Wrong! Find where I said he was a "great" manager?

I said he was a good fit for Washington given their window, and that he has won wherever he has managed. FACT.

I guess by your theory, Baker won postseason games in Chicago whereas Piniella didn't, making Dusty the better manager. Ozzie Guillen won a WS making him better than Maddon, and Maddon went to a WS with Tampa and Piniella never sniffed a .500 record there.

Is that how this all works?

Wrong. What you did was tag team with Brett05's argument about Baker being a great manager and suggesting he could have a couple of seasons of essentially .500 ball and get more wins than Leyland. That's where you stumbled. Baker doesn't have a WS win. 1 Pennant in 20 years. Leyland has multiple Pennants and a WS ring.

What else you have here is a shuck and dive. FACT.

 

[brett05]

When you evaluate baseball there is a very real set of objective stats and there is the eye test. I applies to pitchers, hitters, fielders and even managers and you are correct it is not objective but to people that have followed the game as long as I have it matters.

Then you are wrong. All the talk by the guys that do this for a living at the major league level says it's a great hiring.

 

[brett05]

Wrong. What you did was tag team with Brett05's argument about Baker being a great manager and suggesting he could have a couple of seasons of essentially .500 ball and get more wins than Leyland. That's where you stumbled. Baker doesn't have a WS win. 1 Pennant in 20 years. Leyland has multiple Pennants and a WS ring.

What else you have here is a shuck and dive. FACT.

FACT = I never brought up Jim's name in this thread.

 

[Parade_Rain]

FACT = I never brought up Jim's name in this thread.

This is a true FACT.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Then you are wrong. All the talk by the guys that do this for a living at the major league level says it's a great hiring.

Why was he let go after winning 97 and 90 games? These are winning seasons. Why didn't he win a WS in SF, yet Bochy did more than once? Was there something he did with the Cubs that indicated he was a good manager with solid game management skills? Also, highly competent "guys that do this for a living at the major league level" thought the Cubs would win the World Series this year.

While we can't count on competence from much in Washington DC, at least the Nationals have demonstrated that by hiring Maddux as the pitching coach. He certainly can help offset Baker's shortcomings with regards to the pitching staff/useage/changes.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

Then you are wrong. All the talk by the guys that do this for a living at the major league level says it's a great hiring.

It's their job to talk up their own. I get it. many of them are also embarrassed at the awful track record MLB has right now in terms of diversity on the managerial level. I don't necessarily think it was an awful hire although I think Bud Black is a much better manager. I think the amount of money they paid Dusty and offered Black is pretty shameful actually and then they go ahead and hire Mike Maddux for a reported $1 million per. Very strange doings in Washington. Listen we differ in opinion and that's fine. I don't care for Baker at all and if I were a team owner he wouldn't cross my radar.

 

[brett05]

It's their job to talk up their own.

Talk up their own? I'm talking about baseball experts, they get paid to talk honestly.

I think the amount of money they paid Dusty and offered Black is pretty shameful actually and then they go ahead and hire Mike Maddux for a reported $1 million per.

Agreed

Very strange doings in Washington. Listen we differ in opinion and that's fine. I don't care for Baker at all and if I were a team owner he wouldn't cross my radar.

I am ok to disagree, but let's face it, you aren't MOY 3 times and 2nd 3 times without doing things right.

 

[SilenceS]

Baker isn't as bad as people say and he has to tango with some of the biggest egos in the game. Dealing with Bonds and then Brandon Phillips is a tall task. They are huge personalities that people didn't care for. Bryce Harper is another player with a huge ego. Dude is a bonafide ******, but he can back it up.

Dusty is old school and may not be the new way of thinking but he takes a lot of heat. The Cubs make the world series in '03 there is probably a statue of him up at Wrigley.

 

[TC in Mississippi]

I can agree that you can make a case that he's a good manager. I would not call him great. That's, as you say, an opinion.

Talk up their own? I'm talking about baseball experts, they get paid to talk honestly.

Baseball experts get paid to talk honestly? ROFL. The ones that have worked in teh game are almost always full of shit and the big national writers protect their sources reputations with gusto.

 

[SilenceS]

Astro's farm rated number 1 by milb.com for this past year. They are so loaded. That is going to be a team to reckon with for the foreseeable future.

 

[Parade_Rain]

Dusty is old school and may not be the new way of thinking but he takes a lot of heat. The Cubs make the world series in '03 there is probably a statue of him up at Wrigley.

He didn't win the World Series and his schtick grew old quickly. He went right along with his players making excuses.

 

[SilenceS]

He didn't win the World Series and his schtick grew old quickly. He went right along with his players making excuses.

People said the same thing about Lou. Dusty is not without fault, but he was a very good manager. I also do not believe he ruined any Cubs pitchers. Thats an excuse fans make. Kerry Wood was a walking injury his whole career. The guy threw like 190 pitches in a HS game the day after he was drafted. Mark Prior was never the same after the Giles collision. The '04 team was stacked and should have made a run. That was a veteran team. They shouldn't have folded like that and Dusty should take some of the blame. But, in the end, he is a solid manager that takes way to much heat from Cubs fans. I wouldn't call him great because I only believe a few coaches to be great but he is an upper tier manager. Oh and Dusty Baker don't give a **** attitude towards fans and media def. makes people talk worse about him.

 

[brett05]

I agree with SilenceS

 

[Parade_Rain]

People said the same thing about Lou. Dusty is not without fault, but he was a very good manager.

Were you even 10 when Baker managed the Cubs? Trust me. He wasn't a "very good manager".

I also do not believe he ruined any Cubs pitchers. Thats an excuse fans make. Kerry Wood was a walking injury his whole career. The guy threw like 190 pitches in a HS game the day after he was drafted. Mark Prior was never the same after the Giles collision.

Well, since I'm on record in this very forum defending Baker against the excuses of overuse and instead mentioning the mechanical flaws, this comment wouldn't sway me in the least. I already know he didn't ruin any pitchers.

The '04 team was stacked and should have made a run. That was a veteran team. They shouldn't have folded like that and Dusty should take some of the blame.

So, IOW, this information is contradictary to your statement that he is a "very good manager".

But, in the end, he is a solid manager that takes way to much heat from Cubs fans.

He takes heat from mature Cubs fans because of not being aware enough of the game to get a timeout and reset the game and minds after the Bartman ball. They were in control. His game management leaves a lot to be desired and some of the stuff that came out of his mouth during his tenure was quite humorous.

I wouldn't call him great because I only believe a few coaches to be great but he is an upper tier manager. Oh and Dusty Baker don't give a **** attitude towards fans and media def. makes people talk worse about him.

I think he is somewhat above average. Brett05 is calling him "great". No offense, but I've never concerned myself with what the fans/media/managers all think of themselves, whether they hate each other or want to dry hump each other, when it comes to my opinion of a manager.

 

[SilenceS]

Were you even 10 when Baker managed the Cubs? Trust me. He wasn't a "very good manager".

Well, since I'm on record in this very forum defending Baker against the excuses of overuse and instead mentioning the mechanical flaws, this comment wouldn't sway me in the least. I already know he didn't ruin any pitchers.
So, IOW, this information is contradictary to your statement that he is a "very good manager".

He takes heat from mature Cubs fans because of not being aware enough of the game to get a timeout and reset the game and minds after the Bartman ball. They were in control. His game management leaves a lot to be desired and some of the stuff that came out of his mouth during his tenure was quite humorous.

I think he is somewhat above average. Brett05 is calling him "great". No offense, but I've never concerned myself with what the fans/media/managers all think of themselves, whether they hate each other or want to dry hump each other, when it comes to my opinion of a manager.

I was 17 and very much aware of his coaching. lol The rest is opinion just like ours. I didn't contradict myself. Managers can still be good managers and make mistakes. It happens. The blame of the '04 year should be spread around. Oh and I disagree with the Bartman thing. These are professional athletes not kids especially the 2003 team. Alex Gonzales doesn't boot the ball. Dusty Baker goes down in Cubs lore. I am fine with your opinion but I don't agree with some of it.

 

[Parade_Rain]

I was 17 and very much aware of his coaching. lol The rest is opinion just like ours. I didn't contradict myself. Managers can still be good managers and make mistakes. It happens. The blame of the '04 year should be spread around. Oh and I disagree with the Bartman thing. These are professional athletes not kids especially the 2003 team. Alex Gonzales doesn't boot the ball. Dusty Baker goes down in Cubs lore. I am fine with your opinion but I don't agree with some of it.

Alrighty then. We'll just have to wait and see how long In Dusty We Trusty lasts in the capital. It's not hard to believe they will be better next season than this one, but let's see how he leaves the team and why.

 

[SilenceS]

Alrighty then. We'll just have to wait and see how long In Dusty We Trusty lasts in the capital. It's not hard to believe they will be better next season than this one, but let's see how he leaves the team and why.

I will tell you this. He can not be any worse than Matt Williams. He was the worst in game coach last year. His decisions were mind boggling and he had no idea how to use a bullpen. He was like a robot that had no idea which string to pull.