The Official Cubs Argument Thread (Keep The Flaming Here)

[Captain Obvious]

I think the problem isn't that you are wrong but that you are uncompromising. The reason some posters have problems with advanced statistics is not only because they're new and different, but because of their novelty they require tweaks and certain assumptions that folks aren't so accepting of. While the metrics are better than the standard statistics in evaluating player production and future performance, they are not without their flaws. That is the main objection that I see from DewsSox and other anti-WAR folks and I don't think they're necessarily wrong.

It's fine to use the stats but it's also important to understand the importance of context and sample sizes. Here's a couple articles from Alex Remington he wrote for BLS documenting the stats you listed above. Pay close attention to the part where he describes how they don't work well.

Everything you always wanted to know about: UZR - Big League Stew - MLB

Everything you always wanted to know about: WAR - Big League Stew - MLB

There are assumptions inherent in each metric and I'm hardly an expert but I don't think it's appropriate to just accept the newfangled numbers as gospel without realizing their flaws.

LOL, I'm not saying that they are gospel. Anytime I use them, it's like 9/11. I understand that they aren't the end all be all. Pretty much every stat/metric except wOBA has a flaw. The problem that I have with them is they come in here saying shit about my opinions yet offer nothing alternative.

 

[Rice Cube]

Remington also has a blurb about the coefficients/weights for each hit/offensive outcome, btw...

Everything you always wanted to know about: wOBA - Big League Stew - MLB

All stats have flaws. Some are less flawed than others.

I also use advanced statistics, but again, context is important. As long as you keep your position in context I don't see a big problem. I certainly don't have a big problem with you although I disagree with you at times.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

LOL, I'm not saying that they are gospel. Anytime I use them, it's like 9/11. I understand that they aren't the end all be all. Pretty much every stat/metric except wOBA has a flaw. The problem that I have with them is they come in here saying shit about my opinions yet offer nothing alternative.

it doesnt have a flaw?

what about its use of IBB?

not to mention its open to a bit of subjectivity depending on what site is providing it...the metric itself is not one single standard

that said wOBA is less flawed than quite a few stats

 

[Captain Obvious]

it doesnt have a flaw?

what about its use of IBB?

not to mention its open to a bit of subjectivity depending on what site is providing it...the metric itself is not one single standard

that said wOBA is less flawed than quite a few stats

My bad. I meant to put major flaw. I thought it. I just didn't type it. That being said, wOBA is still the King of all stats.

 

[DewsSox79]

I'm not saying that. I'm not saying that at all. I don't give a **** if someone disagrees with me. But as dewey & jowcawks evidence time and time again, they don't have to back up their opinions with anything. At PSD that shit doesn't fly. But here it does. Additionally, it's like a fucking sin if you mention anything about WAR, UZR, any advanced metric here. People here reject that, but they don't refute it.

1) bold 1- again you fail to comprehend anything. Metrics are not STATS, they are NOT known to be true. the metrics you use are HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE! key word being METRICS not stats. The metrics you use should be used in conjuction with actual statistics and actually watching the player to come up with an overall evaluation of the specific player. try again moron.

2) great! at PSD it doesnt fly! Than go back there where it is much more your style.

3) this will be your last post about PSD and it being better than CCS or atleast your dumb ass attempt to say that without saying it. if ccs is so bad GTFO.

Dewey

 

[Capt. Serious]

CO's anticipating response to the Zambozo deal:

Why the **** didn't we get Josh Johnson?!

 

[Jntg4]

Dewey just wants to use the banhammer again.

Who doesn't? :yeah:

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

lol stats are inherently flawed because they are quantitative representations of something that has more dimensions than simple data

 

[Rice Cube]

lol stats are inherently flawed because they are quantitative representations of something that has more dimensions than simple data

You win.

 

[dabynsky]

Every way we have to evaluate players is flawed. The question is how much do you rely on any one particular method. I am just glad that we have a front office now that is finally truly committed to using any and all methods available to make these decisions in reality.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think there was a link once talking about how to use stats and the questions you need to ask. It was something like "What is the question you are trying to answer" and then "What are the statistics that will help answer that question" but I'm just paraphrasing. That seems like a good approach to take.

 

[Captain Obvious]

1) bold 1- again you fail to comprehend anything. Metrics are not STATS, they are NOT known to be true. the metrics you use are HIGHLY SUBJECTIVE! key word being METRICS not stats. The metrics you use should be used in conjuction with actual statistics and actually watching the player to come up with an overall evaluation of the specific player. try again moron.

2) great! at PSD it doesnt fly! Than go back there where it is much more your style.

3) this will be your last post about PSD and it being better than CCS or atleast your dumb ass attempt to say that without saying it. if ccs is so bad GTFO.

Dewey

1) Yes, Metrics are not stats. But you know what they have that your stats don't? A higher correlation to runs. Do you know what that means? Because ya know, I'm not entirely sure you do know.

2) As I have already stated, Buckaroo, I do post there.

3) Oh will it now? I never said CCS was so bad. I said PSD is better. Pretty simple.

 

[Jntg4]

1) Yes, Metrics are not stats. But you know what they have that your stats don't? A higher correlation to runs. Do you know what that means? Because ya know, I'm not entirely sure you do know.

2) As I have already stated, Buckaroo, I do post there.

3) Oh will it now? I never said CCS was so bad. I said PSD is better. Pretty simple.

PSD is terrible, if CCS is lower than it, that's pretty bad.

You can only post at one, pick between PSD and CCS now.

 

[Rice Cube]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that it's a big no-no to say bad things about CCS because if Rush gets a hold of this, Rush gets mad.

 

[DewsSox79]

1) Yes, Metrics are not stats. But you know what they have that your stats don't? A higher correlation to runs. Do you know what that means? Because ya know, I'm not entirely sure you do know.
2) As I have already stated, Buckaroo, I do post there.

3) Oh will it now? I never said CCS was so bad. I said PSD is better. Pretty simple.

you.still.dont.get.it.

and you wonder why people here rip you all day long

 

[DewsSox79]

PSD is terrible, if CCS is lower than it, that's pretty bad.

You can only post at one, pick between PSD and CCS now.

He can post at both, but if he decides he is going to be a little rep for PSD and defend it here and say its better or what have you.....he will be gone....only a matter of time.

 

[Uman85]

1) Yes, Metrics are not stats. But you know what they have that your stats don't? A higher correlation to runs. Do you know what that means? Because ya know, I'm not entirely sure you do know.

2) As I have already stated, Buckaroo, I do post there.

3) Oh will it now? I never said CCS was so bad. I said PSD is better. Pretty simple.

Ban him.

 

[nwfisch]

Ban him.

You have the power son. :smoke::smoke:

 

[Jntg4]

He can post at both, but if he decides he is going to be a little rep for PSD and defend it here and say its better or what have you.....he will be gone....only a matter of time.

That's what I meant but it's clear that hes just gonna keep strokin PSDs dick.

 

[Uman85]

You have the power son. :smoke::smoke:

I may have the power, but unfortunately posting shitty metrics and displaying stupidity isn't a bannable offense.