The Official Cubs Argument Thread (Keep The Flaming Here)

[Rice Cube]

I don't feel like reading through all that mess, but if we're debating SABRmetrics, I'd like to throw my opinion out there. I'm a firm believer in SABRmetrics myself and I they're just as important as tradition stats. Obviously some carry more weight than others, but they shouldn't be tossed aside. I think CO is full of shit a lot of times, but I do like use of metrics.

But, if I missed the whole point of the debate, just ignore.

I think the debate was that the advanced metrics were being thrown around like gospel or something. I like a good mix of my-untrained-eye scouting plus statistical analysis, myself.

 

[nickofypres]

I think the debate was that the advanced metrics were being thrown around like gospel or something. I like a good mix of my-untrained-eye scouting plus statistical analysis, myself.

Gotchya.

 

[Rice Cube]

I think the problem sometimes is that CO puts entirely too much weight on one or two metrics and doesn't use them in context, which I've told him upthread. Then of course he gets trolled by everyone because he doesn't help his own cause by A. being unwavering in his opinion and B. coming off as arrogant and dicky. And so it goes...

It's a vicious cycle :lol:

 

[DewsSox79]

I don't feel like reading through all that mess, but if we're debating SABRmetrics, I'd like to throw my opinion out there. I'm a firm believer in SABRmetrics myself and I they're just as important as tradition stats. Obviously some carry more weight than others, but they shouldn't be tossed aside. I think CO is full of shit a lot of times, but I do like use of metrics.

But, if I missed the whole point of the debate, just ignore.

its about ignoring all stats, and all things the eye sees and going by JUST sabermetrics....thats the problem

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

I think the problem sometimes is that CO puts entirely too much weight on one or two metrics and doesn't use them in context, which I've told him upthread. Then of course he gets trolled by everyone because he doesn't help his own cause by A. being unwavering in his opinion and B. coming off as arrogant and dicky. And so it goes...

It's a vicious cycle :lol:

pretty much this

 

[cubsneedmiracle]

its about ignoring all stats, and all things the eye sees and going by JUST sabermetrics....thats the problem

Its not "just" sabr

Its that he uses a few sabr.. that are marginally not even that great.. he barely uses all of it.

 

[DewsSox79]

Its not "just" sabr

Its that he uses a few sabr.. that are marginally not even that great.. he barely uses all of it.

basically in a nutshell he cherry picks certain metrics to back up his lame ass arguements.

 

[Rice Cube]

basically in a nutshell he cherry picks certain metrics to back up his lame ass arguements.

Right...they lack context.

 

[icehogfan08]

basically in a nutshell he cherry picks certain metrics to back up his lame ass arguements.

Like in 2008 when player X was clutch so that makes him clutch now.

 

[Rice Cube]

Like in 2008 when player X was clutch so that makes him clutch now.

That's really sad because generally speaking, saberists don't really believe in clutch.

 

[DewsSox79]

That's really sad because generally speaking, saberists don't really believe in clutch.

oh but he did. co was all over aramis ramirez nuts about being clutch

 

[Rice Cube]

oh but he did. co was all over aramis ramirez nuts about being clutch

I'm not that much of an expert but I think that both B-Ref and FanGraphs have some metrics where they measure leverage indices and "clutch" but because those situations are limited relative to the sum of their plate appearances, they're essentially random and don't tell you anything. "Clutch" is almost as useless as "clubhouse chemistry" and "grit" and is just another way to build a narrative.

So I'm surprised that someone who almost worships statistics would talk about that.

 

[dabynsky]

Completely agree with you, rice, as usual. Only player that ever made me question that belief is Alex Gonzalez, but really clutch as an ability has never been shown empirically as far as I've seen.

 

[icehogfan08]

That's really sad because generally speaking, saberists don't really believe in clutch.

oh but he did. co was all over aramis ramirez nuts about being clutch

There was a big rambling bout that. He was clutch hitter in a 08 series and that makes him one of the top 3 3B in the NL. Its worth the find if you want to search it.

 

[CODE_BLUE56]

There was a big rambling bout that. He was clutch hitter in a 08 series and that makes him one of the top 3 3B in the NL. Its worth the find if you want to search it.

there's not a bad argument for this

 

[nwfisch]

CO=edobear:

 

[daddies3angels]

My new years resolution is not to fight on forums anymore. We all have our opinion and i will respect all of yours even if crazy

 

[nwfisch]

My new years resolution is not to fight on forums anymore. We all have our opinion and i will respect all of yours even if crazy

As soon as I kick your ass again on Madden, you'll be mad

 

[daddies3angels]

As soon as I kick your ass again on Madden, you'll be mad

:nope:

 

[Rice Cube]

The rules have been updated. This thread was a fun experiment but it's over, so now it's locked and will eventually fall to page 2. Read the new rules and don't be surprised if a thread disappears when you cross the line. If you have issues with me, talk to Rush about it. Thanks.